Talk:John André/Archive 1

Archive 1

DOB

stupid The DOB I listed, 5/2/1750, is that given in the ANB. PedanticallySpeaking 17:00, Oct 16, 2004 (UTC)

The Hanging of Andre

Is there any useful information from John Paulding that can be used to flesh out the description of the hanging of Andre somewhat? That article needs to be edited, but it looks like the criticism of the 'official' story may have useful angles in it. Someone with interest/time may want to look at it. Isoxyl 18:37, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Additional info added 7/8/2006

Just finished reviewing Major John Andre's journal: "Major Andre's Journal: Operations of the British Army", Tarrytown, NY: William Abbatt, 1930. (Reprint: "Eyewitness Accounts of the American Revolution: Major Andre's Journal", New York: The New York Times & Arno Press, 1968). At the end of the journal is an account of his death. I will attempt to add portions of it when I get a chance, unless others are able to post it before me. I could not find an electronic version of it. Jason.torgerson (talk) 00:04, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone lead me to the reference for the poem quoted on the page? Thanks. Jason.torgerson (talk) 22:04, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Blindfold

The article states: "In fact André, according to witnesses, refused the blindfold..." but later, in the words of an eyewitness, "...the victim, after taking off his hat and stock, bandaged his own eyes with perfect firmness..." Which is it? Dyfsunctional 17:07, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

According to Major John Andre's journal: "Major Andre's Journal: Operations of the British Army", Tarrytown, NY: William Abbatt, 1930. (Reprint: "Eyewitness Accounts of the American Revolution: Major Andre's Journal", New York: The New York Times & Arno Press, 1968), the account of his death indicates that Maj Andre' pulled two hankerchief's from his pocket. The first he tied around his eyes, and the second was used to tie his arms/hands together. (I imagine this is so he would not attempt to reach up and hang on to the rope). There are two accounts added to the book that contains his journal. The first account causes some confusion on the binding of his arms-it states that when he was asked if he had any last words that Maj Andre lifted the blindfold and stated "I pray you to bear me witness that I met my fate like a brave man." (p. 109). After which the wagon was pulled out from under him. The other account differs by stating that his arms were bound meaning he would not have been able to lift the blindfold. At any rate the book is a good read. I will attempt to summarize and post at a future date. Jason.torgerson (talk) 00:17, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

The article mentions first the handkerchief to bind his hands and then the one for his eyes; it makes it sound as if he bound his hands and then with bound hands put on his blindfold. Ileanadu (talk) 18:46, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

The Capture of Andre

I'm reading letters from Alexander Hamilton who personally took part in the investigation of Andre and the betrayal of Arnold. There is no mention that the three continental patrollers intended to rob Andre, and I would like to see a reference that authoritively shows Andre testifying that the three men intended to rob him. It besmirches the honor accorded to the men who captured him and refused bribery. Those men have monuments built to their honor and were awarded by Washington. Thank you.--MistaButla (talk) 03:18, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

-- Speaking of that, he (Alexander Hamilton, that is) and a lot of others thought that Andre didn't need to be hanged. Should that go somewhere in the article? -- Writergeek7 —Preceding comment was added at 18:57, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Historical Portrayal section

It seems to me that a fair amount of useful information has been removed and replaced by a blanket statement lacking references. However, it's not entirely clear that it's vandalism, so I don't want to take action yet. Could someone else take a look at this? --Blanurozgu (talk) 22:57, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I concur that the section is not historical in nature. It reads more like a soap-opera. Not what a professional historian would necessarily include in a "Historical Portrayal" Section. I agree it needs to be re-worked...also unable to determine whether vadalism played a part or not. I just finished conducting a historical review of the Philadelphia Campaign of 1777 and read Maj Andre's journal and other information pertaining to the individual. Sincerely yours, jt -- Jason.torgerson (talk) 22:03, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Further Reading

Just as a thought, there's two sections at the end that say "further reading" with different books. Could someone combine them into 2 -- I'm a little leery of doing so because I'm a klutz when it comes to computers.  :) -- Writergeek7 —Preceding comment was added at 19:00, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Quote or interpolation?

The given source falls short of the conventional standards for distinguishing quotes from reliable sources versus interpolation and extensions by the author of the work. (Also, the wording does differ) Tedickey (talk) 22:24, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

The quotation is also to be found in Lossing. Lossing cites Sparks, so the gist of the quote goes back a long way. Magic♪piano 23:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Gist (paraphrase) is one thing, a quote is something different (if it's not exact, we shouldn't be presenting it as such). That's 3 versions. Tedickey (talk) 00:22, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Agreed (and you'll probably find even more versions in Google Books). I was mainly pointing out that the encounter is probably not apocryphal. Magic♪piano 02:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

It still could be: assuming that Sparks is the earliest, I recall that when I used him as a source someone pointed out that he has less-than-perfect reputation regarding stories. It's not unusual for a single source to be at the root of several similar stories Tedickey (talk) 13:27, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

All I know about Sparks is that he collected a great deal of primary material; I've no real experience directly with his scholarship beyond the limited use I made of it in working on Benedict Arnold. I was able to locate this, which he describes as an extended quote from Tallmadge's own description of events. Perhaps the thing do here is to describe the encounter as being from Tallmadge's memoir: "During his captivity, Tallmadge claims to have questioned André ...", and then cite Sparks rather than a later party. Magic♪piano 17:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

yes, that would be an improvement Tedickey (talk) 17:28, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Aftermath - Strickland Who?

The Aftermath section begins thus:

Strickland, André's executioner, who was confined at the camp in Tappan as a dangerous Tory during André's trial, was granted liberty for accepting the duty of hangman ....

This is the first mention of Strickland in the article; I assume this is his last name, but he is not previously identified. There is a mention of an "awkward" executioner, but he's not identified. Ileanadu (talk) 18:40, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

-- Your Answer -- His full name was Nathan Strickland. He is one of my ancestors, from the Ramapo region in what is now Rockland County, New York.

--MrEguy  |  ♠♥♣♦ 19:29, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

File:FidelityMedallion.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:FidelityMedallion.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests January 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 16:21, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Their are many other websites that state a female spy was involved in the capture of john andre. After him living in their home for several months she told him that her patriot brother was being held prisoner. He refused to help. Three years later she found out that he was going to seize west point and end the war. She quickly became a spy and spied on him as a maid. She went to her brothers friend John Paulding and they recruted two people, Isaac van Wart , and David Williams. Is this true?

Make a change

I suggest that the drawing be replaced with an actual painting or photo of Andre. It does not appear to clearly show him. 68.100.116.118 (talk) 01:38, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Peach tree

This may not be a reliable source, but it claims that the exhumation of André's body caused the death of a peach tree, the roots of which had become entwined with his skull. The source does also contain other useful material about the monuments to André, which might be verifiable elsewhere. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:11, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

The Westminster Abbey page says "As he walked to the gallows he was watched by many sobbing women, one of whom is said to have given him a peach which later grew into a tree above his grave.... [at his disinterment] The roots of the peach tree had pierced the coffin and this was uprooted and replanted in the King's garden behind Carlton House in London." DuncanHill (talk) 15:14, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Awww, pass the peach-scented hankies, would you? Nice source! haha. So it didn't die, but was also successfully replanted. How very appropriate. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:21, 15 June 2018 (UTC) .... I almost feel a WP:DYK coming on here, except that Fram would probably want to know what species of peach it was.

Grosvenor Chapel

The memorial says he died in 1804 at the age of 51. Is this the same John Andre?? 5.148.149.200 (talk) 10:01, 13 August 2018 (UTC)