Talk:Joe Hooper (Medal of Honor)

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Untitled

There's some really rough stuff on his Medal of Honor activities on the Joe R. Hooper page. I'd say merge, but most of the stuff there really needs to be cleaned up.

WP:MILHIST Assessment

A nice, long, thorough article. Just one quibble - the intro does not indicate who Lt. Audie Murphy or Sgt. Alvin York are, but implies their importance. Instead of stating that Hooper was more decorated than these two, would it not be more useful to write something like "the most decorated Army captain to have taken part in the Vietnam War" or whatever the accurate statement might be? And if this kind of comment can't be made, and he's only significant in comparison to these other two, then is that really useful information at all? LordAmeth 09:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Eh, they're more famous, and typically get all the press. Which is why the comparision is important. Those names should be linked (if they're not), so that people can check the 'what links here' and find Joe.

~ender 2007-04-12 10:46:AM MST —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.167.217.162 (talk) 17:42, 12 April 2007 (UTC).

Debatable

Whether Hooper was the most highly decorated combat veteran (or Vietnam veteran for that matter) is debatable. Sergeant (later Lieutenant) Robert L. Howard was awarded the MOH, two Distinguished Service Crosses, and the Silver Star (both DSCs were downgraded from MOH recommendations for separate actions). RM Gillespie (talk) 02:56, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the whole "most decorated" argument that goes on in regards to some of these people has gotten ridiculous. Hooper may have received more awards in total, but as far as order of precedence for most of the awards, Howard and Murphy have him beat easily.74.138.45.132 (talk) 19:35, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Most decorated

The objective of this discussion is to determine who was the most decorated American soldier in the Vietnam conflict. Was it Joe Hooper or was it Robert L. Howard? Once a conclusion is reached, the proper changes should be made to the articles. Tony the Marine (talk) 19:23, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

This discussion began on the article for Sgt Otero Barreto. I think the following post, which I have copied from the talk page for that article is a useful start for the discussion. (I have edited out the references to Sgt Otero Barreto as no longer pertinent.)

Here are some references for these [two] individuals:

COL Howard: (WP, NYT) 1 MOH, 2 DSC, 1 SS, DSSM, 4 LM, 4 BSM, 8 PH

CPT Hooper: (Huntsville Times, ArmyTimes): 1 MOH, 2 SS, 6 BSM, 8 PH

After reviewing the sources that I have found, that are reliable sources it does appear that COL Howard is the most decorated given the weight of the medals he earned. . . . --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 06:16, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

One issue might be whether the claim is based on total decorations, or only on decorations for bravery. If awards not for bravery are not counted, Col. Howard's Legion of Merit would not enter into the calculation. Moreover, it would be necessary to determine whether the Bronze Star Medals in both totals were awarded with a "V" device or not.--Lineagegeek (talk) 20:28, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

True, however there are two DSCs which are significant given that those are just underneath the MOH in precedence. But if no weight is counted than it appears that Hooper has more medals for valor (9), compared to 8 for Howard.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 22:13, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Lineagegeek had added a tag to the article Jorge Otero Barreto, it was removed. I have merged the tags here, and believe the tag that was removed there was appropriate and stated as much. Please see the discussion there. Please be civil, other editors appear to be protective of the article regarding SFC Barreto.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 01:49, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Both meet the criteria for "One of the Most Decorated Combat Veterans" so there is no conflict in either article, if that is the claim. If however the claim is to give one or the other the distinction of have been "THE Most Highly decorated" then the jury should need to consider the two DSC's of Col. then SFC Howard (which is listed by the Institute of Heraldry as 2nd in importance, the Silver Star as 4th, the Legion of Merit as 5th, and the Bronze Star as 9th. Both have an equal number of MOH and Purple Hearts (10th). Col. Howard also has an Air Medal which has a "V" device (3 awards). Finally Col. Howard has a "V" device on his Army Commendation Medal (7 awards). Cpt. Hooper has neither of these awards - that I can find. I have to agree with RightCowLeftCoast. Col. Howard is the Most Highly Decorated.

(Jorge Otero Barreto has no claim to this category - the claim on that site today 8 NOV 12 is: "has been called the most decorated U.S. soldier of the Vietnam War." That may be the claim, by 3 others, but I would posit that without a Medal of Honor he can not even be considered The Most Highly Decorated.) Jogershok (talk) 02:48, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

The only way to arrive at a definitive answer would be to actually review all of the award citations for Hooper and Howard. As some one who has been award four Bronze Stars, three were for valor ("V" Device), but one was for Meritorious Service against an armed hostile enemy. Howard apears to have more awards for valor, when you count MOH, DSC-2, SS, BS w/V-4, AM w/V-3, ARCOM w/V-7, and of course eight Purple Hearts. Assuming that even just the majority of the Bronze Stars were for Valor, as well as the Air Medals and Army Commendation medals were for Valor, Howard would have to be considered the most highly decorated. I would also contend that if you include foreign awards which are included in the case of York and Murphy, Howard would exceed them both. They both, Hooper and Howard, were more highly decorated than Audie Murphy. I believe they both also were more highly decorated than Alvin York. Although I found one mention of him being award "50 medals," I was unable to verify that anywhere. Jim (talk) 04:10, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

I think this questions is ultimately unanswerable, because the criteria upon which a determination might be made are impossible to compare. A simple thought experiment should demonstrate this easily. Imagine the servicemen in question standing across from one another. Ask them which is the more highly decorated. We would do well to describe Americans of such distinction as "one of the most-highly decorated". Their actions speak for themselves. This isn't a question of baseball statistics. User:Hlocnw 15:52, 25 June 2013 (EDT)

I just wanted to note that York was for WWI and Audie Murphy was WWII. I think the context of this discussion was for the Vietnam war. Additionally, Gen. MacArthur had a huge list of medals as well. Kumioko (talk) 19:59, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

The order of precedence of the medals should count for far more than sheer quantity. When the order of precedence is considered, Howard is by far the more decorated of the two. The same goes for Murphy, though you can't really compare, because the amount of time Howard was in Vietnam is greater than the length of time the United States was even involved in WWII. The whole "he is more highly decorated than Audie Murphy" thing has gotten utterly ridiculous on some of these pages. A suggestion put forth by another commenter indicating that a particular individual is "one of the most highly decorated of the [name of particular war]" is far better than claiming that one is more highly decorated than Audie Murphy or Alvin York. As far as York is concerned, it is unwise to even use him for comparison purposes given the short amount of time the US was involved in WWI. 74.138.45.132 (talk) 19:41, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

References