Talk:Joanne Gair

Joanne Gair has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
February 28, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on February 23, 2008.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ...that the work of make-up artist and body painter Joanne Gair, whose works include the 1992 Vanity Fair cover of Demi Moore, has been featured in ten consecutive Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issues?

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Arts and Entertainment

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group.
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Fashion Low‑importance

	Fashion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fashion, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Fashion on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FashionWikipedia:WikiProject FashionTemplate:WikiProject Fashionfashion articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Photography: History

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Photography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of photography on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PhotographyWikipedia:WikiProject PhotographyTemplate:WikiProject PhotographyPhotography articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject History of photography.

Visual arts

	Visual arts portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Visual arts, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of visual arts on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Visual artsWikipedia:WikiProject Visual artsTemplate:WikiProject Visual artsvisual arts articles
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

New Zealand Mid‑importance

	New Zealand portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New Zealand, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New Zealand and New Zealand-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New ZealandWikipedia:WikiProject New ZealandTemplate:WikiProject New ZealandNew Zealand articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women artists

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women artists, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women artists on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women artistsWikipedia:WikiProject Women artistsTemplate:WikiProject Women artistsWomen artists articles

Nudity Low‑importance

	Nudity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Nudity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of nudity and naturism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.NudityWikipedia:WikiProject NudityTemplate:WikiProject Nuditynudity articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that an image or photograph of Joanne Gair be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

This article is written in New Zealand English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, analyse, centre, fiord) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Breakfast with the Arts

I could use some help understanding whether she was a guest or a make-up artist on Breakfast with the Arts (http://www.locatetv.com/tv/breakfast-with-the-arts/1358251 and http://www.locatetv.com/tv/breakfast-with-the-arts/1358274).--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 22:10, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
The writing passes, but it still needs some work. Also, when the article talks about "Ripley's Believe it or Not?", the question mark is not needed.
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

This article passes GA although the writing still needs a little bit of work. Thank you for your hard work in improving this article to GA status. Juliancolton ^{The storm still blows...} 18:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"iconic status"

I read that she gained iconic status with a Vanity Fair Demi's Birthday Suit cover of Demi Moore in a body painting in 1992 and wondered what, if anything, that meant. It's sourced, so I read the source.

It turns out to be a rather direct quotation of some gush written by a company that's selling her stuff.

I don't think that this is encyclopedic language, or encyclopedic sourcing. Am I too harsh? -- Hoary (talk) 16:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I gather you are looking at the first paragraph of the lead. In the second paragraph look at the source for the Absolute Gair information.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use images

Gair's career started as a music industry make-up artist. We have two prime examples of this work in cover art. She has two famous bodypaintings that are included. At TfD it looks like the two examples of her Sports Illustrated work are going to be whittled down to one. Then there are some book covers. If you have to reduce further start with the book covers.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:07, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The question needs to be asked; which images are actually needed? Which images are discussed in the text of the article? Just because it is mentioned that she did work with/for X, does not mean that an image is required. J Milburn (talk) 11:11, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Which images do you think are needed. IMO, an average reader will not conceptualize her artistic skill by describing her as a music industry make-up artist and stylist without the images that we have. The presage her more famous bodypainting.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If the images are discussed in text and in context then they can and should be included, it helps to see the art. The question might depend upon added text...Modernist (talk) 01:28, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are all of the images here discussed in the text? If a specific image is not discussed, it should probably not be included. The first image in the article, for instance, is only mentioned in passing- "One of her early successes was being employed to do Roth's 1986 Eat 'Em and Smile album cover (pictured left)" (while I'm here, I don't really like the self reference, but that is not a NFC issue). Is this is enough to justify showing the image? I think not. If we instead had some discussion of the image- what critics thought about the work, what she hoped to achieve with the work and so on, then the image would be useful. Right now, it's very much- "She did Y- and here's a picture". J Milburn (talk) 01:34, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gair is an artist who is not written about in Art books (yet). There is very limited WP:RS info about her that is not from her own books. In terms of whether the reader would conceptualize her talent as a make-up artist without the image, I really doubt that they would. If I told you Ms. X is a famous make up artist in the music industry, these cover works are probably beyond what you might envision. I really don't know how better to write about a notable artist who is not widely published.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:53, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Too many fair use images, particularly duplications, e.g. two album covers and two Sports Illustrated covers. I would say a maximum of three could be justified in total to show the different facets necessary. Ty 13:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would really like to keep five of the nine, but think four are essential: Her two famous artworks (Demi's Birthday Suit and Disappearing Model), one depicting her Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue work and one depicting her music industry make-up artist work. That would be the bare essentials. I would still have trouble distilling the music industry work down to one because right now we have one image showing she worked with rock music and artists and one showing she worked with soul music artists giving five that are representative of her work.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 13:30, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the two famous artworks. The artwork of the Swimsuit issue is in the same mode as Demi's Birthday Suit (i.e. appearance of clothing on a body), so one or the other would show that. One album cover shows that kind of work, i.e. decorative, not a disguise. For the amount of text three is quite enough. Ty 01:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the three book covers. Which album cover do you consider more important artistically?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd go for Kelis as showing the work more clearly. Ty 02:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I like the Kaleidopscope Kelis also - but whats up with the Heidi Klum SI cover? I think it should be kept as well and not deleted, it's a famous piece, although - the image should be on the right-hand side :)...Modernist (talk) 03:48, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would not quite describe that as a famous piece individually, but it is representative of a very important part of Gair's career. I am just having trouble cutting down the covers to one. I can not bring myself to make such an edit. However, I think the article will have either 4 or 5 images. I think 1 Sports Illustrated cover is a must.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:05, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken two out and I think the remaining ones provide a good representation of her range of work. The art on Sports Illustrated is exactly the same kind of work as with Demi Moore, i.e. clothes painted on a body. More images might well be justifiable as fair use, but wikipedia has stricter policies. I don't agree with some of the severe interpretations of these, and consider they undermine the ability to create a quality encyclopedia (see Mark Rothko for a classic example with just one image), but the differing viewpoints have to be acknowledged and worked with. Five images are not going to be accepted. Three is on the liberal side of policy interpretation. I'd like to get J Milburn's input also at this stage, as he is someone who works a lot with images. Ty 09:04, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I do not interpret the Sports Illustrated image as being the same as the Demi's Birthday Suit and current responses are two in favor of keeping it and one opposed. I am going to take the liberty of re-adding it until consensus arises for its removal.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 12:23, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think four is ok, the article looks right...Modernist (talk) 21:39, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The lead image portrait, (needs to be released under ({cc-by-2.0]}) the Demi, SI, Kelis and Hidden model are max...I think the article is at the limit, although the SI cover is still up for deletion...Modernist (talk) 19:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Joanne Gair. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 16:35, 23 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Joanne Gair. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:21, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]