Talk:Jean Grey/Archive 4

This is an archive of past discussions about Jean Grey. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

FCH clean up

I spent a lot of time streamlining the citations for the Jean Grey FCH and cleaning that mess of a section up. It's written in-universe, since the Publication History is all out-of-universe. This is an issue I've brought up before with this page: I feel the PH section doubles as a comprehensive and generally concise FCH. However, given the character's massive history with retcons, I figured that if the FCH is to exist, it should be the canonical history, which is separate from the reality of the original PH and retcons. Unfortunately, despite my attempts, the section is still far lengthier than I would like. If another editor can take a look at it, comparing the PH with the FCH and either edit or give me some advice, I'd appreciate it. I'll be revisiting the section periodically to try to cut it down. This is especially of interest to me because of the Comic Project's recent FCH discussion. The article is high importance, and I'd like to get it into some semblance of shape...at least GA. Thanks!Luminum (talk) 23:12, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I have written up a much more concise version of the FCH and will post it following this edit. You can also review the current version on my sandbox here. I have taken a lot of pains to ensure that information is comprehensive and out-of-universe in the Publication History while the FCB is intended to be concise and in-universe.Luminum (talk) 06:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Jean Grey/Phoenix

This article is called Jean Grey, it should have Jean Grey on the infobox.96.238.36.171 (talk) 03:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

That isn't the reason it should say Jean Grey, but you are not wrong. It is standard practice to go by the real name where the character had more than one code name and/or went by their real name for a substantial time, and Jean Grey qualifies for both. Her current code name is irrelevant, as that is WP:RECENTism. 99.126.204.164 (talk) 06:19, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you guys that she should be listed as Jean Grey in the infobox. I don't know why anyone would think Jean is "better known" as Phoenix--listing her as Phoenix just leads to confusion regarding Jean, the Phoenix Force, and the various retcons involved. I say leave all of that for the body text and just use her real name, which is what she's most often referred to as, at the top of the info box. Plus, all of the Phoenix fanatics who keep changing "Jean Grey" to "Phoenix" all over Wikipedia tend to also add OR stuff about cosmic fire, resurrection abilities, etc., to such an extent that all of their changes to "Phoenix" seem to me to border on OR, or at least to pushing an agenda.

Anyway, we now have three votes for Jean Grey and no comments (just a bunch of reverts) from those who want it to say Phoenix. Is that enough to be considered consensus? DeadpoolRP (talk) 01:22, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

I think the pagename itself can tell that her name is Jean Grey, and you open her page in the name of Jean Grey, unless that the name is Phoenix you all may revert it to Jean Grey. No wonder most people now think that wikipedia is an unreliable sources because of editors like these type, who based on their own opinion rather than the fact that the Jean Grey is the same with Phoenix, no matter how many times she explains in Phoenix: Endsong that she is Jean Grey, and she is the Phoenix, and she took her name in honor for Rachel. Does it really bother to just accept "Phoenix" name on small infobox? Even in games nowadays she is more known as Phoenix. Wikipedia is source of information, so I think people who doesn't know about X-Men/new about X-Men that this information about Jean Grey-Summers is Phoenix or any other information is important. If you want to know the true fact, let's say you should talk to Stan Lee himself. If there's no proof that Jean Grey should be Jean Grey, let's put it that the name is Phoenix since she stated it herself in Phoenix: Endsong — Preceding unsigned comment added by Forestlicious (talk • contribs) 05:14, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Oh and another thing. If Phoenix's (whatever you people you may say it but I call her Phoenix as she is) infobox should be Jean Grey, it should be the same with all X-Men members. Like Storm, should be Ororo Munroe, and Magneto should be Max Eisenhardt. Sounds pretty fair right?small>— Preceding unsigned comment added by Forestlicious (talk • contribs) 05:21, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

It should be the name of the article.96.238.36.171 (talk) 19:37, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm agree with Forestlicious. I understand what his/her point is. It's not about "it should be the name of the article" but instead Wikipedia should give information based on true facts. True facts here, is that Jean Grey is more or less known as Phoenix, even in most video games, movie, cartoon series, etc. I say true facts because of 2 facts from the comic: 1. Phoenix: Endsong where Cyclops asked whether she is Jean Grey or the Phoenix, she answers that she is both of them, the fact that Jean Grey and Phoenix Force has been an entirely same entity since then. 2. Rachel Grey stated herself in one point of the comic "I'm not the Phoenix.. I'm not my mom.." 3. Death itself has stated that Jean Grey is "The One True Phoenix". You see, for the pagename it's definitely fine with Jean Grey, that it is the page of Jean Grey as whole. But for the infobox, it should be Phoenix to give true information that Jean Grey is Phoenix. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhoenixForce5 (talk • contribs) 10:37, 4 February 2012 (UTC) Struck comment by sock puppet - jc37 14:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Queen?

I'm curious as to whether Jean Grey is an intentional anagram of Jane Grey, the first Queen of England. It probably shouldn't go it the article unless somebody finds confirmation, but is a interesting WikiJump nonetheless. --Jwanders 14:44, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've heard that rumor before, but I don't know if it's ever been confirmed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C08C:A6F0:21C:B3FF:FEC3:2572 (talk) 13:32, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

She is Not In The "kings & Queens" book, isbn: 1-903817-21-8

Added ¶ about her family to her biography

I came here hoping for a link to info on her sister Sara Grey, because Sara doesn't have her own page. There was no mention of Sara, John or Elaine. I added a brief paragraph to the beginning of the biography section that simply states she was born to John and Elaine, and the younger sister of Sara, and links to each of them. Seems like there should be a link to these minor characters somewhere in this article. The alternative would be a side box with a list of family members and links, or a link to a Grey-Summers family tree, if such a page exists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C08C:A6F0:21C:B3FF:FEC3:2572 (talk) 13:37, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Jean's Status

I do not think it is appropriate to list Jean's Status as "Deceased". At the end of Phoenix: Endsong, she disappeared to some place (most likely the White Hot Room but not explicitly stated). She did not "die" again. I am changing it back to Inactive unless someone else comes up with a better solution. I'm rejecting "Active (in unseen ways)" and "Deceased" as the comics do not support these. --Facto 07:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be better to say "Unknown?" Inactive makes it sound like she's one of those characters who didn't really die but was just forgotten because none of the readers liked them, which is definitely not true with Jean Grey. She's very active in the storylines, even if she's not actually there; in this way, Inactive is a little misleading. And since we're not totally sure what the White Hot Room is--if it's some kind of death, or something else altogether--Unknown seems more appropriate. Thoughts? -Vontafeijos 07:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd agree with Unknown. We know she's not dead, and it wouldnt be totally accurate to say alive either at this point.DemonWeb 13:48, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. --Chris Griswold 00:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Facto. She's in the White Hot Room.And she isn't dead or inactive.Period.However, the writers never defined Jean's situation after her evolution to The White Phoenix.

I'm very confuse with the situation!!!

:,(

[[--Bryard 14:55, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Powers and Abilities

"Phoenix can also (though she never did this) revive, absorb, rechannel and preserve any kind of lifeform." I disagree; Phoenix has revived Jean Grey's body, shown in Endsong. I removed the parenthetical note.

"Jean is considered to be one of the Earth's most powerful telepathic minds. It has been stated that Jean Grey's powers outclass the most powerful telepathic mutant, Professor X due to her cosmic class powers[issue # needed]. " I disagree with this. Charles Xavier has repeatedly been referred to as the most powerful telepath in the world. Jean doesn't outclass him, but the Phoenix does. It is, after all, a cosmic entity. Jealousghost 21:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)jealousghost 11/15/06

News flash. Jean is an OMEGA-LEVEL telepath. What don't you people get without that. While he is way more experienced than Jean, Jean is stronger than him. With Phoenix, Jean's psychic powers are astronomical beyond Omega-level mutantcy. Elemental5293 (talk) 21:26, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

It's been directly stated in numerous comics published by Marvel over the years that Xavier is the stronger telepath. If she's "stronger than him," there needs to be a source that verifies that (not implies it). Otherwise, it's an opinion. --4.249.84.74 (talk) 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Phoenix revived Jean Grey in the cartoon series too, after she had been obliterated by the Shi'ar. Phoenix did this by taking a portion of "flame" or "radiance" from other x-men.

She did revive her, regardless of how she did it. Baaleos 14:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Taken directly from the Marvel Wikia - "Professor X is a mutant who possesses vast psionic powers, making him arguably the world's most powerful telepath." Clokverkorange (talk) 21:49, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

The Marvel Wikia is not authoritatively from Marvel nor is it authoritative of Marvel story lines. It is publicly edited by members.Luminum (talk) 09:14, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

I meant to say the Marvel Universe Wiki page. The MUW page is hosted on Marvel.com. I found the info on that page under "Powers". Clokverkorange (talk) 03:09, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes. We're talking about the same thing. The wiki hosted on Marvel.com is still edited by any user. It's not authoritatively from Marvel, just something that's open source for anyone that's hosted on their site. Actual publications from Marvel would be authoritative (in so far as primary sources go), such as publications like The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe.Luminum (talk) 11:02, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Jean Grey Real power and abilities

Jean grey through the comics,she has devolped the next abilities: As a phoenix force avatar she can warp the reality and control the existence, manipulate the time, as well as absorbing, project and manipulating any kind of energy and transmute and control matter at a sub-atomic level.We should put that on her powers and abilities to have a complete information.--White-Phoenix Of The-Crown (talk) 03:58, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Jean Grey not an original X-Men

Though she did join the X-Men early in the first issue, Angel, Beast, Ice-Man, and Cyclops were long established X-Men at the beginning of the issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.122.59.118 (talk) 18:19, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

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