Talk:Jean Grey/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Pics (again)

Looking through the article, it's striking that there isn't a pic of Jean as she first appeared as Marvel Girl. I think it's a big oversight. On the other hand, I don't think the ménage à trois ;) with Scott and Emma really adds anything. So, in the interest of keeping this simple, I propose the following:

1. Add a pic of early Jean in her Marvel Girl mini-skirt
2. Remove the Jean walking in on cheatin' Scott and homewrecker Emma
3. Adjust the placement of the remaining pics.

Support CovenantD 09:33, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Strong Support. Without Marvel Girl, you get none of the rest. (Just leave out those stupid dotted lines.;D) Trekphiler 12:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ultimatemarvelgirl.jpg

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Unnecessary

In the powers and abilities section, this: Jean also showed in Endsong that she, as well as the Phoenix, has the ability to absorb Cyclops' optic blasts and feed off them. is pretty much superfluous as we already know she can absorb any kind of energy and feed off of it. I'm going to remove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.69.51.173 (talk) 13:36, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:JeanAgeOfApoc442.jpg

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BetacommandBot 01:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Jean Grey 010.jpg

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BetacommandBot 01:20, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:15-29.jpg

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BetacommandBot 01:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot 01:30, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

on thing missin there...

I like to know more about the time she was in Uncanny X-Men, but I only see a Section called Relationship with cyclops, that must be removed or moved somewhere, the info I want to know is the what was the live of Jean Grey when she was not phoenix

I remember reading about (in some site) that she was a member of the X-Men since the first group, and that she hanged out with all the x-men when they were not saving the city, and then she went to the unniversity??

I think that is most important his life in the X-men than the Relationship

I hope this helps 189.129.91.112 20:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot 04:12, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Some important things that should stay in

Classic X-Men #42-earliest in Jean's life that she is shown being connected to the Phoenix. In this story preteen Jean manifests the Phoenix and touches Scotts mind in the orphanage but he thinks he is just dreaming. This event is referenced in Classic X-Men #43 by Death and in Phoenix Endsong #4 by the Phoenix itself.

X-Men the Hidden Years 8/9-- shows Marvel Girl being scanned by the Phoenix Force and she has a vision of becoming Phoenix but it fades from her memory immediately after.

Classic X-Men #43-- Jean Grey meets Death in the afterlife (later called White Hot Room) and its the first time she appears as White Phoenix (she will appear as White Phoenix later on in X-Men Forever, New X-Men #154 and Phoenix Endsong #5).

Between Inferno (X-Factor #39) and Judgment Wars (X-Factor #50) Jean had a small spark of the Phoenix energy within her. Although she didn't use it except in Marvel Presents #15 and in Judgment War where she expelled it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.8.169.39 (talk) 05:19, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Cable

Since when is Cable her biological son? Madelyne is Cable's mother, so at best Jean is an aunt. --DrBat 00:12, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't you know Madelyne's just a part of Jean Grey. --Facto 00:18, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, Jean absorbed MP post-Inferno, but expelled her in the Judgement War, allowing Nate Grey to later temporarily resurrect her before an Evil Alternate Jean knocked her back to the psi-plane (where she'd tell Cable she couldn't physically manifest any more) and took her place.

Jean's certainly his adoptive mother though, given that "Redd" raised him with "Slym" for the first twelve years or so of his life... - SoM 00:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Plus, D'spayre told Cable that Jean was his mother in blood, just not in spirit. And in Apocalypse the Twelve, Apocalypse referred to Jean and Cable as the Mother and Son component of his machine. Also Madelyne's being a genetic copy of Jean means that Cable is the biological son of Jean and Cyclops by proxy (Jean just didn't give birth to Cable). NeoCoronis 03:12, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

By extension, that makes Stryfe Jean's son as well, since we're counting clones as, biologically, the same as the originals. EVula 03:30, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Let's say "genetic son" so as not to confuse it with her having given birth to him. --Chris Griswold 08:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Isn't that the same as saying that my aunt would also be my mother, if the two were genetically identical? Madelyne gave birth to Nathan, not Jean. --DrBat 00:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

No; clones aren't the same as siblings. Even twins have differences; clones do not (at least, not in the X-comics). EVula 00:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

According to wikipedia: "Identical twins have identical DNA but differing environmental influences throughout their lives affect which genes are switched on or off." --DrBat 00:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

But in the comics, a clone is created from a donor's DNA, and is completely identical to the donor (twins do have subtle gentic differences). Any child conceived by the clone is also progeny of the donor. For example, if I was cloned (using the comic book cloning technology), and my clone had a kid, then kid's DNA would be half his mother's, and half mine. Even though I had no part in the child's conception, genetically he would be my son. Also this is just a wierd fact I learned from my genetics professor, "If identical twin brothers married identical twin sisters, their offspring would be so genetically similar, that they would almost be siblings instead of cousins". NeoCoronis 01:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Should we just list Cable as "son of clone"? --DrBat 01:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I was just about to suggest the same thing. Does this mean Stryfe is "alternate-future clone of son of clone"? and Tyler is "alternate-future grandson of clone"--Chris Griswold 02:16, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

That'd be fine, it would accurately depict Cable's relationship with Jean, just include the fact that Jean is his adoptive mother too (Jean raised him for twelve years, and loved him as her son, and several comics referred to him as Jean's son), so "adoptive son/son of clone" would be best. NeoCoronis 02:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

What are you guys smoking? Clones are artificial identical twins but are exact spinoffs of the original. Jean is Cable's mother. In the cloning process, the person takes the egg out of a woman, removes every drop of genetic material in it and places the genetic material of someone's body cell, for example Jean's, and inserts it within the egg. They let the egg and zygote material get situated before they insert it into the host mother who delivers the baby, Madelyne, who turns out to an precisely exact copy of the the donor, Jean. So both Jean and Madelyne are both Cable's birth mother but Jean actually raised him along with Scott between the time Madelyne died in Inferno and Cable was infected by Apocalypse's T.O. virus and had to go into the future, raised him more for like 13 years as Redd Dayspring, and when he came back to the present resumed her maternal duties. So, Jean has been more of a mother to Cable than Madelyne ever was but that isn't Madelyne's fault. If you had to name one mother of Cable it would have to be Jean because of that even though Madelyne gave birth to him. Elemental5293 (talk) 21:46, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Costumes

Since its been a point of argument.

A few caveats - these are not absolutely complete listings. I'm ignoring short lived (six issues or less - except Dark Phoenix Saga) costumes, periods where she wasn't appearing anywhere (except reprints), but AM including Phoenix (Skip Uncanny #101-137 for Phoenix). Also, I'm only including listings for one series at a time, except where the changes occur in different series - these are indicators of time periods rather than exhaustive.

• Original black-blue and yellow (mask varies): Uncanny #1 - #38
• Green minidress: Uncanny #39 - #66 (plus Giant-Size X-Men #1)
• Green Phoenix: Uncanny #101 - #132
• Dark Phoenix: Uncanny #134 - #136 (THREE ISSUES! Plus the minidress, Green & Dark Phoenix costumes all appear in Uncanny137)
• Green X-Factor: X-Factor #1 - #26
• Red X-Factor: X-Factor #26 - #62
• Blue X-Factor: X-Factor #63 - #70
• Jim Lee X-Men: X-Men #1/Uncanny #281 - Uncanny #352 (plus X-Men: The Animated Series)
• Green Phoenix reprise: Uncanny #354 - #358, X-Men #92 - #99 (equiv. to Uncanny #371 - #380)
• X-Men Revolution Phoenix: X-Men #100 - X-Men #113
• New X-Men black-grey and yellow: New X-Men #114 - NXM #148

I don't think the Dark Phoenix costume should be in the box somehow... - SoM 09:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I would say the Jim Lee version or the Green Phoenix reprise would more suit Jean, especially the Jim Lee version. That was when she was just Jean and was getting close to realizing the peak of her powers without the Phoenix Force. Elemental5293 (talk) 21:52, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Things that could be included in article

1. Jean versus Onslaught
2. Jean versus Sabretooth
3. Jean versus Emma Frost (first battle)

--Facto 10:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Jean's battle with painkillers. --Chris Griswold 11:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Jean vs. Onslaught Elemental5293 (talk) 21:52, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Jean Grey / PHOENIX??!!

Is no one going to mention the boneheaded renaming of this article from "Jean Grey" to "Jean Grey / Phoenix" based on the completely spurious notion that Jean has ALWAYS been associated with Phoenix?

Amen. Elemental5293 (talk) 21:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I very much think this should be reversed. Yes, the whole Phoenix thing is important to Jean's story but it's not all she is and it's certainly not a codename she used throughout her history. Plus if I understand the WikiProject Comics convention, it should be "Phoenix (Jean Grey)" at the very least--not that I think it should be used at all. Joeyconnick 09:13, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I undid the nonsensical move. —Nightstallion (?) 10:03, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Someone moved it again, which I promptly undid. I've protected the article from being moved; only another admin can do it now. EVula // talk // ☯ // 16:02, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Ultimate Pic too old!

Update needed need to at least change the pic to longer hair. i hate the old ultimate jean, PLEASE change it!

I disagree. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 02:22, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I dont mean to sound offensive but what you hate or want has no sway of what will happen. If you can present a good reason as to why the image needs to be changed then say it. Thefro552 02:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I would change it but I don't know how to get pictures up on here. Care to explain. Elemental5293 (talk) 21:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)