Talk:Jean-Luc Picard/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Reception

While the comparison of Picard and Kirk's respective command styles was enlightening, it seemed to me that it had nothing to with actual reception other than it involved fan interpretation of leadership styles. I think this section should be sorted out and either generate actual "reception," e.g. critical reviews of the character from fans, critics etc. or the section should be retitled to something more fitting.

76.114.73.248 (talk) 05:04, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

The information is cited and it concerns the reception of the character by way of the comparison. I'm not sure what else it could be titled. Alastairward (talk) 10:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Atheism?

Wondered if the article should mention Picard's secularism/atheism? He is one of the best examples of an atheist that isn't an immoral jerk like Hollywood loves to portray them as. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.185.211.217 (talk) 08:38, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Very good point. I agree with you. I would suggest to consider him as agnostic or something along the line of secular/agnostic/ignostic/areligious though. Apart from that, go ahead! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.85.188.217 (talk) 06:31, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

If it represents a major element of his character or that it has gained notability outside Star Trek itself, then perhaps it is due a mention. Alastairward (talk) 13:03, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

... primarily portrayed?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard is a Star Trek character primarily portrayed by actor Patrick Stewart.

Who else was he ever portrayed by? I don't remember any other actors playing him, if memory serves. ~九尾の氷狐~ ^{(「Sumimasen!」 「Dochira samaka?」)} 22:36, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

There are several instances where a young picard is portrayed by other actors. Two that come immediatly to mind are from these episode http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapestry_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation) where Patrick stewart and John De Lancie (Q) watch a young picard in a bar fight, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rascals_(TNG_episode) where picard amonst other crew members are turned into children, the majority of this episode is a child playing picard. 192.250.175.26 (talk) 22:49, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

There are two instances not several. In 'Tapestry' Patrick Stewart still plays Picard for the entire episode - even as a young officer - A different actor only plays him for a few seconds during a reenactment of his heart injury in Q's white dream-world. In 'Rascals' a different actor does play him as a 12 year old. (I suppose Tom Hardy also plays Cadet Picard in a photo in Nemesis.) These certainly do not warrant a word like "primarily" which implies that another actor actually played the role. I'm cutting it. - Tim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.215.202 (talk) 04:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC) puting it back, by your own admision the character has been portrayed by others, albeit briefly but in rascals it was substantial. Wikipedia lists facts not opinions, and your saying it does not warrant it is not fact. FACT another actor namely David Tristan Birkin has played this role. It is verifiable as a fact. Smitty1337 (talk) 13:47, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

In addition, Tom Hardy, who played Praetor Shinzon in Star Trek: Nemesis, was also in a picture intended to be a young Picard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.181.163 (talk)

The "primarily" gives a taste to the reader that the character went about an actor change someplace in the series, not that there were some instances that another actor was used to portray him during time sequences. Please note that on both Guinan's article and Ro Laren's article, the use of "primary" is not used, though they both had child actors portray them in rascals as well. I first read this article about 30 minutes ago and the first thing that glared at me as peculiar was the use of primarily portrayed in the intro. Akuvar (talk) 20:32, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Why did they pick a British actor to play a French captain?

He was supposedly born and raised in France. Shouldn't he at least have a French accent? Or does this imply that France was conquered by the UK at some point in the future? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.221.144 (talk) 20:41, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

It's not unlikely that after being born his family took up residence in Britain.68.0.181.163 (talk) 06:56, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

It is more likely due to the preferences of US TV audiences. Perhaps it was thought a French accent would put audiences off ... I can imagine some critic writing: "I like the character of Captain Picard, but that French accent is so hard to understand", despite it probably not being hard to understand at all. The casting of Patrick Stewart, a reknowned Shakespearean actor, was considered quite a coup. More puzzling is why, once Stewart was cast, they didn't rename the character to something more British sounding and reinvent a British back-story for the character. Astronaut (talk) 18:04, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

its kinda part of the humor of it, he does things that are British more then french, remember when he sang heart of oak, the royal navy song that is about beating up the french? i laughed at that hard. even patrick stewart joked about this, if i recall he said something along the lines of his character must have had a british nanny. Smitty1337 (talk) 23:15, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

They were worried someone might think he was in fact Canadian, eh? Alastairward (talk) 09:54, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Patrick Stewart NOT Sir Patrick NOT Sir Stewart

Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)#Honorific_titles

it says this "Wikipedia guidelines permit inline use of titles but forbid inline use of honorifics. Honorific titles (e.g. "Sir"/"Dame" prenominals used by some knights)" Smitty1337 (talk) 23:46, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Kirk vs Picard

um reallly? I'm going to delete this section because it obviously doesn't belong on fb...

1. Picard would have gone back to check on Khan when Ceti Alpha 5 shifted its orbit, thus Khan would not have been angry, thus Chekov would probably never have landed there, thus Khan would not have stolen the Genesis torpedo, thus Starfleet would still have the USS Reliant, thus Spock would not have died, thus Kirk wouldn't have stolen the Enterprise, thus the Enterprise would never had been destroyed, thus Kirk's son and Savek would still be alive, thus Kirk would not be a prime candidate in the murder of Chancellor Gorko because he would not want vengeance for the death of his son, thus the galaxy would be a better place. So there! 2. One word - velour 3. Kirk had low performance technology because he couldn't handle high performance technology. 4. Picard isn't picky about who sits in his chair on the bridge. 5. Picard can actually speak to an android of high intelligence and be understood. 6. Picard drinks Earl Grey tea. 7. Picard has sex more than once, but doesn't feel the need for us to know about every conquest. 8. Picard can pilot the Enterprise through a mine field. 9. Picard doesn't use cologne to mask his natural scent. 10. Picard can be in the same room for five minutes with a woman without groping her. 11. A holodeck would have been a waster to Kirk. 12. Kirk was scard of a little Tribble. 13. Kirk never said: 'Abandon ship, all hands abandon ship!' because he was already out of there at the first hint of trouble. 14. Picard's helmsman at the conn is highly proficient in complex space-time relationships. Kirk's helmsman is highly proficient at fencing. 15. A bartender wouldn't have bothered wasting time talking to Kirk. 16. DO women swoon when they hear 'beam me up, Scotty?' No? How about 'make it so?' See the difference? 17. If there was ever a Klingon on Kirk's bridge, Kirk would be dead. 18. Kirk couldn't go anywhere alone. He was a scaredy cat. 19. Kirk has save Starfleet and the Federation. Picard has saved the entire universe more than once. 20. Picard can speak in several languages - and he knows more than just the swear words for each one. 21. Picard looks great in Lycra. 22. Picard has aged beautifully. 23. Kirk has not aged well. 24. Kirk left the Enterprise to become a police captain. 25. Picard is still on the Enterprise. 26. Kirk has a short neck. 27. Kirk has a short forehead. 28. Picard's ship logs contain more syllables per word than Kirk's. 29. Picard collects antiques - such as books. 30. Picard is curious. 31. Picard has tossed away beautiful women because they were airheads. 32. Kirk's girlfriends looked best in complete darkness. 33. Starfleet knew Kirk couldn't handle other species that might make him feel inferior. 34. Picard has a multi-ethnic ship. 35. Kirk's doctor was named Bones. 36. Kirk's doctor was a guy. 37. Picard had the sense to get rid of the ugly doctor and get Beverly back. 38. Picard could have have Beverly if he crooked his little finger. Kirk wouldn't have the chance. 39. Picard hasn't contributed to the population explosion. 40. Two words - line delivery. 41. When Picard doesn't trust the Romulans, he forms an intricate plan to discover what they are really up to. 42. Kirk only worries about himself. 43. Picard cares if the crew lives or dies. 44. Key word - intelligence. 45. Picard dates the wives of scientific geniuses. And then only in Paris. 46. Kirk thinks himself a futuristic swashbuckler, but is more suited to prehistoric man. 47. Kirk doesn't have a sexy counsellor, or a sexy chief medical officer. 48. If Deanna read Kirk's thoughts, she would find he never had an original one. 49. Picard doesn't have to worry that Deanna can read his thoughts. 50. Picard has the guts to stand amoung hundreds of Klingons and argue with them. 51. The Borg only assimilate intelligent life. 52. If Kirk had met the Borg, they wouldn't have assimilated him. They would have discarded him as space debris. 53. Kirk wouldn't wear a kilt because people would have laughed at his legs and he would have had to kill the entire crew. 54. Picard doesn't need to wear a wig to feel a man. 55. Picard has lasted more seasons as the Captain of the Enterprise for a reason. 56. Kirk would never have allowed an episode involving a dream sequence in which Deanna and Worf become lovers. It would have taken attention away from him. 57. Kirk is rude. 58. Kirk could never have handled a first officer like Riker. RIker would have grown impatient with his halting, gasping sentences and thrown him into the cargo bay. 59. Wesley Crusher would have running the Enterprise had Kirk been his Captain, and Kirk would have never known. 60. Beverly Crusher would have zapped Kirk had he made a move on her. 61. Kirk can do neither without seeming like an ape. 62. Picard can talk the talk. 63. Picard can walk the walk. 64. Kirk never knew Scotty lied to him about the status of the engines because he didn't understand the Enterprise didn't use gas. 65. Picard can speak intelligently with his officers about anything on the Enterprise. 66. Picard like painting nudes, which allows him plent of time to properly court the model. 67. Picard can do much better than Joan Collins. 68. If it was Picard, Kirk's favourite fantasy would come true. 69. If a group of 10 sex-starved women were being rescued by the Captain of the Enterprise, and it was Kirk, they'd run away screaming 'we'll wait for the next ship!' 70. Picard is a man of culture. 71. Picard has taste. 72. Kirk was merely a first draft. Picard is the refined, edited version. 73. Picard drinks ale, yet where is his 'beer belly?' 74. Picard wears a more natural, less caked make-up. 75. Picard can tell the difference between a real woman and a mirage. 76. Picard doesn't stare at himself for hours in the mirror. 77. Picard doesn't believe himself to be omni-perfect. 78. Kirk wouldn't have known what archaeology was if it bit him on the bottom. 79. Picard knows how to spell his middle name. 80. Picard is a seasoned vetern. He has lasted seven seasons. 81. Picard admits he's made mistakes. It takes a real man to admit thier errors. 82. Picard is rational. 83. Picard listens to his first officer, considers the information, then makes a appropriate decision. 84. Kirk only though he beat a Vulcan at chess; Picard did. 85. Kirk never straightened his shirt because he was a slob. 86. Kirk didn't have the brains to read a book or appreciate fictional characters such as Dixon Hill. 87. Picard is sexier with his shirt unbuttoned to his waist than Kirk is completely naked. 88. Picard would rather sing to children to comfort them than kill them. 89. Picard is self-confident. 90. Picard has learned patience. Kirk couldn't learn the alphabet. 91. Picard is a man of reason, who isn't afraid to show his strength when necessary, but only when necessary. 92. Picard is a class act. 93. Picard has morals. 94. If Kirk had been killed in the first episode, the show would have been reduced to 30 minutes of good acting. 95. Two words - sexy smile. 96. Picard's picture is beside the word confidence in the dictionary. 97. Hair doesn't mean diddly if the personality is all air. 98. Picard doesn't need to hop in the sack to prove his masculinity. 99. Picard is thin enough to wear a jmp suit with panache. 100. Picard can say more than two words without gasping for air. is offline Reply With Quote —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.159.69 (talk) 04:19, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

you dont need to quote vandalism on the talk page to delete it, its obvious vandalism and can be reverted immediatly without discussion...Make it so! ... Everyone knows Kirk was better JK. Smitty1337 (talk) 18:28, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I like that this was pasted out of the article, it is a good laugh. But no, it does not belong in the article itself. Akuvar (talk) 20:35, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Picard Song

The Picard Song redirects here. There is no mention of it in this article however. I'm sure a pop culture references section could be created and the song be listed there.NiX0n (talk) 13:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Plenty of mention in the talk archives, in archive 1 and archive 2. There was no consensus that it was notable enough to include here just yet. WikiuserNI (talk) 14:14, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

But all they say there is that that maybe The Picard Song should be talked about on the YTMND page. Which is fine, but then "The Picard Song" should redirect there. If we don't want to talk about it there or here, and it doesn't warrant it's own page (it doesn't) "The Picard Song" should redirect to nothing (red link). If we're going to have a redirect, the redirect should point to something about the topic and not end in space. CatCube (talk) 22:54, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Kirk vs. Picard

Why is the article James T. Kirk over 3 times as long as the article Jean-Luc Picard? It can't be all because Kirk is better known among non-Trekk{er,ie}s. JIP | Talk 19:52, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps it's because older trekkies have more time to edit Wikipedia? In contrast, those whose first contact with Star Trek was TNG in the late 80s - early 90s, are now in the busiest phase of their working careers. Still, I think Picard's article should be expanded a lot. Nanobear (talk) 20:11, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, the Picard article used to be longer than the Kirk article is now until August 2007, when it was decided to trim away over two thirds of it. In contrast, the Kirk article is currently almost at the longest it's ever been during the eight and a half years of its existence, with no such major trimming ever having happened. JIP | Talk 20:25, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Looking at the old 2007 version, I think much of this material could be reinserted. Nanobear (talk) 20:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I think I largely got the ball rolling on expanding the Kirk article, and a couple of ther folks joined in to expand key sections. Picked it largely because I was spotting a lot of real-world coverage and interest in the character with the newest film coming out. Has nothing to do with being a younger/older fan (I was barely old enough to "get" TNG when it first aired). I'm sure this article could similarly be improved. The 2007 version linked earlier, though, is utter crap (admittedly, a lot of which I contributed before I understood e.g WP:RS and WP:WAF), consisting almost entirely of in-universe plot summary, trivia, and WP:OR. --EEMIV (talk) 03:22, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Character depiction in movies?

I think there should at least be a 2-3 sentence paragraph about the character being depicted so differently from the TNG series, e.g. the "series-Picard" would never have acted the way he did in First Contact (diplomat vs. action hero). CaptainWorf (talk) 13:02, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

You must not have seen TNG's "Starship Mine", where Picard single-handedly battles terrorists on a vacated Enterprise. Stewart lobbied for more action scenes during the series run. The films also had a higher budget for more expensive action. 184.98.123.43 (talk) 06:08, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Trek Wikia

Someone removed comments on Picard's views on religion because WP:RS. However, other parts of this same article cites Trek Wikia as a source. To quote Spock, "Sauce for the goose." S trinitrotoluene (talk) 01:31, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Then the preferable action would have been to remove the content/citation pointing toward the wiki, which per WP:RS is not an appropriate source. I'll do it. --EEMIV (talk) 01:52, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

XKCD-related vandalism

Warning, the current XKCD comic is partly generated by using Wikipedia articles ( https://xkcd.com/1193/ ). This my lead to some IP modifying the article: they are adding companies names such as "Apple" or "Google" to modify the comic. You will probably have to clean up this article in a few days to check that no random insert is still here. --TrueGefrierbrand (talk) 12:39, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

More specifically, names of companies from NASDAQ-100. Also note that this is not only article used in that comic. On the other hand, there is also donation link for wikipedia on that page - unless that's joke too ... -- Hkmaly (talk) 13:07, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Wheaton?

Wheaton asked Roddenberry to keep Picard a Borg for a few more episodes beyond the third season finale, as he thought that would be more interesting than simply restoring Picard in Part II. Is that going to be Wil Wheaton? That is the only mention of Wheaton on the page so its not entirely clear who it could be and i don't have access to the reference to check. Narom (talk) 00:00, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Guess this revision answers that: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jean-Luc_Picard&curid=18621845&diff=559565800&oldid=557834706 Narom (talk) 21:15, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Inconsistent birth place

The infobox says he was born in "La Barre, France" (note it's linked to La Barre, Jura). But under his biography, it says he was born in "La Barre, France" (note it's linked to La Barre, Haute-Saône).

Which one is it? Can someone with the correct knowledge fix it? --2605:6000:EC4B:6200:AED:B9FF:FEAB:988D (talk) 05:23, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

The Picard Song

I was reading another article and followed the link for "The Picard Song" which redirected to this page, but there is no mention anywhere of "the Picard Song" on this page. I think the link for "The Picard Song" should be removed, not redirected to a page that does not mention it. 2.126.9.41 (talk) 17:43, 7 August 2014 (UTC)grippygecko

Well that article no longer exists but "The Picard Song" still exists as a name in the Wikipedia article space and a redirect takes it to this article. Since there is nothing in this article about the song shouldn't we just get rid of the redirect all together? --MadScientistX11 (talk) 18:57, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Only Enterprise Captain not born in the United States?

That phrase may possibly be ambiguous in that people might think it means all the other actors who played the captains were born in the USA (Shatner was born Canada). There might be a better way of saying that this character was the only Enterprise captain (according to storylines so far) that was not born in the US of A, so I'll leave honing the text to someone else. Maitchy (talk) 02:37, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Kind of a moot point: this is an utterly sub-sub-trivial nugget of non-information and not worth including. --EEMIV (talk) 03:42, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Encyclopedia, not trivia pursuit. Mlpearc (open channel) 03:46, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Other actors

I think the link to Marcus Nash is wrong. He appears to have portrayed Picard before he was born. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.9.239.174 (talk) 01:18, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Removed the link as that looks like the wrong person. -- GB fan 01:42, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Evidence for being named after the Piccard brothers?

The linked sources for this claim are unsubstantiated and there doesn't appear to be any first hand evidence for this claim. Seems speculative at best. 118.93.36.13 (talk) 10:22, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

nothing on his girlfriends?

Should there not be a section about his girlfriends and relationships during the course of his character? Govvy (talk) 12:22, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

This article used to have a long section listing relationships and dalliances, but it was mostly just plot summary. If the relationship garnered significant third-party coverage or was a significant part of the character's development (generally again also backed up by third-party sources, and e.g. with B. Crusher), then yes. But, regardless, no, a whole section to his relationships is overkill; it could be sufficiently covered in the Depiction section. --EEMIV (talk) 14:51, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Which "La Barre"?

Was it ever confirmed exactly which "La Barre" Picard comes from? It is a common place name in France. Why do we assume it is the one in Haute-Saone?--24.191.227.115 (talk) 20:01, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

crystal-ballery

As of posting this, the Picard character hasn't appeared in canon Star Trek media since Star Trek: Nemesis. As of this writing, that is the character's last appearance. I acknowledge that Star Trek: Picard is expected to air, but claiming anything beyond expectations is crystal-ballery, a practice in which we do not engage. The Optimistic One (talk · contribs) doesn't agree with that policy, claiming that "We only add their last appearance if they're not going to make anymore."

The Optimistic One made a bold edit, and I reverted it. The next step in the process is discussion; despite The Optimistic One bypassing that, I'm asking for such discussion here. Does anybody have a source for The Optimistic One's claim? Do any other editors have input? — Fourthords | =Λ= | 20:33, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Well, it is reliably sourced. - FlightTime (open channel) 21:02, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Do you mean that Picard is reliably sourced? Sure, but I haven't found a source that verifies the show has aired. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 22:23, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

The upcoming show is named after him. If they're going to have a show like that, don't you think that maybe the character would have some role in it? I only reverted you once, so I don't get all the he wasn't complying to the rules stuff. You shouldn't have reverted my edits in the first place without doing some research. There is tons of reliable sources and the character has even appeared in the official trailer. Nemesis was his latest appearance; not his last. The Optimistic One (talk) 21:37, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

If they're going to have a show like that, don't you think that maybe the character would have some role in it? I think you misunderstand what it means by "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball". The TV show Picard is expected to feature the Picard character, yes, when and if it airs. Until that happens, however, the last appearance of the character is Nemesis.

You shouldn't have reverted my edits in the first place without doing some research. There is [sic] tons of reliable sources and the character has even appeared in the official trailer. If you have a reliable source dated from the future in which Picard has aired, you didn't include it, and no amount of research on my part will find it.

Nemesis was his latest appearance; not his last. The Picard character has appeared in approximately 182 discrete pieces of Star Trek canon, the last of which is Nemesis. That may change. That may not. We don't make those predictions.  — Fourthords | =Λ= | 22:23, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

It's not a prediction. He will appear in the new series. His appearance in Nemesis is guaranteed not to be his last. You can find the official trailer on YouTube if you don't believe me. We don't include last appearances in character infoboxes unless we don't have any evidence that the character will appear again. The Optimistic One (talk) 23:18, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

He will appear in the new series. His appearance in Nemesis is guaranteed not to be his last. Again, you're talking about the future. What is your reliable source that this character will, without fail, appear again in the canon? I cannot predict the future; if you can, perhaps such a skill is better put to use in another field. We don't include last appearances in character infoboxes unless we don't have any evidence that the character will appear again. Can you cite that? — Fourthords | =Λ= | 16:21, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

The first set of episodes have been filmed. The series will premiere in January 2020. He is the lead character. Unless the series is cancelled before it airs at all (which is extremely unlikely), or the world comes to an end before January, Nemesis is not his final appearance. There's plenty of reliable sources on the shows wiki page to back up my argument. I can't predict the future, but I'm certain Earth will still hold life on it by January. The Optimistic One (talk) 01:45, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Unless the series is cancelled before it airs at all (which is extremely unlikely) Gotcha, so which reliable source do you have that the series will not be cancelled before it airs. Also, is your claim of likelihood your opinion, or something else? Lastly, I asked for your source regarding your claim that We don't include last appearances in character infoboxes unless we don't have any evidence that the character will appear again. I'm legitimately keen to find the source for that. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 21:13, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

This discussion should atleast help answer your question. The Optimistic One (talk) 02:28, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Sure, I read it as referring to a character's latest or most-recent appearance. Since I doubt you agree with that interpretation, I've explicitly asked at that talk page. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 16:09, 2 December 2019 (UTC)