Talk:Japanese exonyms

Criteria?

What is your critera to list one? For example "Arisusupuringusu" is just an automatic transciption from the endonym "Alice Springs". It may be pronounced a bit different, but that would apply to any placename. I will prune such automatically transcipted words, if there is no objection. --Wotheina (talk) 13:20, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Historic

Should the list include historic names such as Syonan for Singapore? --Error (talk) 11:48, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Exonyms vs standard Japanese transliteration

I think quite a few entries here do not qualify as exonyms. According to the UN working group on geographical names: an exonym that emerges from transliteration is only an exonym if the transliteration deviates from the standardised system for doing so.

Exonyms that result from transcription. Application of all non-official transcription systems would lead to the emergence of exonyms: this would be valid both for not adhering to the Roman Alphabet Rule (Constanta -→ Konstantsa) and for not adhering to the official transcription or transliteration systems propagated by Donor countries. БЛАГOBEЩEHCK -→ Blago-weschtschensk instead of Blagovescensk.

Examples of names currently on the page which would not count as exonyms under this definition because they represent standard transliterations:

• カナダ (Kanada) for Canada
• セントジョンズ Sentojonzu, for St. John's
• ルアンダ (Ruanda) for Luanda
• ベルリン (Berurin) for Berlin

I think the page would be more interesting and useful if such names were excised. Otherwise, ANY Japanese toponym for somewhere outside of Japan would qualify, and patently, that can't be the purpose of this page. OsFish (talk) 14:13, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

One might think so, and if it were up to me I'd remove any name that does not contain kanji; but there seems to be a consensus that exonym articles – endless lists of trivial examples of the obvious fact that every language adapts foreign names to its own phonology – are an exception to WP:NOTDICT. —Tamfang (talk) 01:58, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

It's not about having kanji or otherwise. Some exonyms have no kanji but are genuine exonyms (typically because they are katakana transliterations of exonyms).OsFish (talk) 09:46, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Of another language's exonyms, you mean? —Tamfang (talk) 23:22, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes. For example, ジョージア is an exonym derived from English (Georgia) for the country that calls itself Sakartvelo. As far as I know, there are no kanji for ジョージア. OsFish (talk) 07:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

I support purging all names that are merely transliterations and not an actual exonym. An exception may be considered for ateji. For example, you mentioned Berlin. Prewar, the city's name was typically rendered with ateji (伯林) rather than katakana. A lot of foreign place names, mostly from Europe and Asia, were transcribed using ateji well into the prewar Shōwa. (For place names in the Americas, this practice became less common after the Meiji era.) It might be helpful to keep ateji variants here when they exist. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 16:22, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

I agree that ateji should be kept, but we need to be careful not to mislead about modern usage.　So kanji like 独 for Germany are still used, but not 伯林 for Berlin or 倫敦 for London. OsFish (talk) 06:54, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Indian placenames - are they all exonyms?

I don't have the confidence to judge, so can I ask - are all the placenames listed exonyms? チェンナイ, コルカタ and ムンバイ　appear to be standard transliterations of local names. OsFish (talk) 08:05, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Based on the Report on the 29th United Nations Group of Experts on Geographical Names published by Geospatial Information Authority of Japan, all those placenames are considered just as Japanese transliterations (翻字) of Indian endonyms directly from local languages, or through their English transliterations . However, マドラス, カルカッタ, ボンベイ and their historical Japanese Kanji transcriptions (転写) are generally considered as exonyms. Doraemonplus (talk) 04:17, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Taiwanese Placenames Given by Japanese Colonial Government

Are names like 高雄 really exonyms when they were given by the Japanese when Taiwan was a Japanese colony? 61.220.186.11 (talk) 03:56, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

It contains a matter of complexity to distinguish a Hanzi/Kanji placename into endonym or exonym. When you pronounce 高雄 as "Gāoxióng", it is considered as a Chinese endonym. On the other hand, when pronounced as "Takao", being a Japanese exonym. Likewise, we cannot make a distinction between endonym and exonym for the written word-form 東京 by itself. Doraemonplus (talk) 05:12, 2 June 2024 (UTC)