Talk:Jams

Requested move 5 October 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. There is a consensus here that there is no primary topic for "Jams". There's also a rough consensus to keep it at the decapitalised title ("Jams" v "JAMS") per WP:DABNAME although in hindsight it would have been better to start a discussions before moving it. Jenks24 (talk) 04:21, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Jams → Jams (disambiguation) – To redirect Jams to Fruit preserves#Jam (the target of Jam) as a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT per WP:PLURAL. Steel1943 (talk) 21:11, 5 October 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. DrStrauss talk 17:26, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support Agreed, nothing else seems nearly as suitable for a primary topic._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 00:32, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: Revert to Old revision of Talk:Jams JAMS. Sawol (talk) 02:46, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- @Sawol: So, per the diff you cited, you want this move discussion blanked? Steel1943 (talk) 00:31, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Your proposal should be the discussion that JAMS would be renamed and moved to Jams (disambiguation). Sawol (talk) 11:34, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In the current state of the pages, that does not make sense since the disambiguation page is currently named "Jams" and JAMS is currently a redirect. Do you mean that you believe that this page should be moved back to JAMS? (If so, I disagree with that per WP:DABNAME per my response to Dohn joe below.) Steel1943 (talk) 13:26, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:PLURAL. This seems a case where there are sufficient non-plural uses of "JAMS" to justify a separate disambiguation page. And agree with Sawol - revert the dab page to the acronym. Dohn joe (talk) 14:05, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- @Dohn joe: Regarding "...revert the dab page to the acronym...", the disambiguation page naming guideline at WP:DABNAME states that "...A word is preferred to an abbreviation, for example Arm (disambiguation) over ARM." The disambiguation page has at least two instances where the word version is used as opposed to the acronym, so thus the current name should stay here rather than the acronym title "JAMS" per the aforementioned guideline. Steel1943 (talk) 00:35, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Clear primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:24, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:NOTDICT. No evidence given that fruit preserves is the primary topic for "Jams". It is highly unusual to use jams in the plural to refer to jam. ("Put some jams on your bread"?) — AjaxSmack 00:59, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- On the contrary, in the UK it is perfectly usual to use the word in the plural. "Jams and preserves", for example, referring to all species of such. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:05, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. While "jams" may be used as a plural for the fruit preserves "jam", it's rare, and limited to when one is speaking of types of jams, not jam instances themselves. This is nothing like, say, cars or oranges; it closer to windows or times, which, as WP:PLURALS notes, do not redirect to window or time, respectively.

As a practical matter, the whole purpose of redirects and disambiguation is to minimize the time and click-throughs that a reader needs to take to get to their desired article. I can readily concede that a person searching Wikipedia on "jam" wants the article on fruit preserves, and jam should redirect there, as it does. But I am skeptical that someone searching on "jams" is looking for that article. I think it's far more likely they're looking for one of the acronym entries, either the dispute-resolution organization or one of the journals. Forcing them to step through an article on fruit preserves, then to a DAB page, then finally to the article they want, puts a mechanistic reading of part of WP:PLURALS ahead of serving the reader. TJRC (talk) 22:21, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Funny you should mention cars. Between the Cars (franchise) of movies and The Cars alone, that redirect is probably better for readers leading to Car (disambiguation) (Cars (film) has more pageviews than car over the past year.) — AjaxSmack 01:54, 20 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. This is an extremely complex topic, see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (plurals)#Primary topic, but in terms of reader experience the current setup seems fine to me. This might even be a good example to add to WP:PLURALPT (the shortcut to the convention I just quoted). Andrewa (talk) 19:17, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, and keep the page at the current title. WP:DABNAME applies - A word is preferred to an abbreviation, given that the dab page is a mixture of "Jams" and "JAMS" entries. — Amakuru (talk) 21:35, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.