Talk:Jaguar/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Add Maya mythology wikilink.

Add Maya mythology wikilink. 108.73.113.84 (talk) 19:19, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

One of the editors made a mistake, I don't have a wiki account or I would change it.

Although once thought to have the most powerful jaws among extant carnivorous mammals, other animals such as the Tasmanian Devil have been proven to have even stronger bites.[29]

The source that he listed for that is an article referring to Tasmanian Devils having a stronger bite (lb for lb) for it's size, it definitely is not talking about it having a stronger bite, just relatively stronger by size.

Here are some of the quotes from the article:

"Somewhat surprisingly, marsupials, pound for pound, were biting far above their weight," says Wroe.

"Among the living species, the Tasmanian devil took the prize for biggest biter relative to its body size." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.2.12 (talk) 09:30, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Where are you seeing Tasmanian devils in this jaguar article on Wikipedia? Bob the WikipediaN ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:44, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Possoble inconsistency

OK, which is it:

Once in America, the jaguar adapted to changing climates and evolved particular characteristics such as losing its roar and learning to swim. [20]

Like the other big cats, the jaguar is capable of roaring (the male more powerfully) and does so to warn territorial and mating competitors away; intensive bouts of counter-calling between individuals have been observed in the wild. [46]

Does the Jaguar roar loudly; or, has it lost its roar?

Good point, These papers indicate that the jaguar can roar. LittleJerry (talk) 02:55, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

File:MocheJaguarLarcoMuseum.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Distribution

West Virginia

The jaguar was first observed and recorded in the United States by Thomas Jefferson in 1799. Jefferson's zoological report included jaguar in the fauna of the Ohio River Valley portion of West Virginia

Is this vandalism? I've never heard of jaguars living in the East. Funnyhat (talk) 02:58, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

I didn't believe it, either, but I located the full text of "The Writings of Thomas Jefferson," and sure enough, J. lists the Jaguar among many other mammals, including something called a "jaguaret". Can't find that anywhere. Jaguarundi? No matter. Put the source in the article. --Seduisant (talk) 04:05, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Looking over that list, it appears to me to be simply a list of animals found in the Americas as a whole, not specifically the Virginia region. The list appears following a discourse on the differences between European and (North) American "quadrupeds". I notice that the caribou, wolverine ("glutton") and tapir are listed, as well as the jaguar. The former three clearly never lived in West Virginia. I'm editing the article to state that Jefferson listed the jaguar in Notes on Virginia as an animal residing in the Americas. We should leave it at that. Funnyhat (talk) 17:50, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Clear error

This statement from the "Jaguar in the United States" section is clearly wrong: "Jaguars were rapidly eliminated by Anglo-Americans in the United States, along with most other large predators." I'm pretty sure that no other large land predators present at the arrival of Euro-Americans have been eliminated from the United States. Many have had their numbers and ranges severely reduced, but not eliminated. TCSaint (talk) 00:13, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

It's been a few months, and no one seems to have any opinions on this, so I made a simple change by removing the second half of the sentence "along with most other large predators." TCSaint (talk) 04:40, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the sentence again, I'm also a bit concerned about the "Anglo-Americans" part, which seems to imply that no jaguars were killed by members of other ethnic groups, and implication that is almost certainly false. I'm not sure what change to make there. TCSaint (talk) 04:43, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

"killed" yes, exterminated, no - there is no evidence that native Americans pre-Colombian period have ever exterminated any species 50.111.6.33 (talk) 16:32, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

My guess is the "Anglo-American" is probably a clumsy attempt to distinguish between Native Americans and more recent immigrants. In some parts of the American SW, the term "Anglo" can br applied to anyone who isn't Mexican or Indian. Wschart (talk) 00:59, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Getting to be pretty topical here

I'm concerned that the current controversy over proposed Jaguar habitat in the United States is the reason why US-related issues are taking over the "Distribution and Habitat" and "Conservation Status" Sections. Given that the US is only one of nineteen nations within the Jaguar's range, this seems unjustified. Maybe it's time to take the controversy to a new page? Jaguars in the United States, perhaps? TCSaint (talk) 04:49, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

More incorrect information in the article

"Apart from a known and possibly breeding population in Arizona (southeast of Tucson), the cat has largely been extirpated from the United States since the early 20th century."

There is no verifiable, reliable evidence that any breeding population of jaguars ever existed within Arizona or New Mexico, since at least the Pleistocene. The northernmost known breeding population of jaguars today is in the Sierra Madre Mountains of Mexico, about 130 miles south of the Arizona border, according to Panthera.org. It is true that occasional lone, male jaguars cross into the southern extremities of Arizona.

There is no verifiable evidence of any wild, naturally occurring female jaguar with kittens in Arizona or New Mexico. There are three urban legends about them but no original documentation stating who first reported these supposed jaguars and any circumstances associated with them. The earliest published reference to these supposed jaguars, Mammals of Arizona by Hoffmeister/AZ Game and Fish Dept.,1986, does not cite source, and the lone sentence mentioning them begins with, "Supposedly...". There has never been a record of a naturally occurring female jaguar in the wild in New Mexico, ever.

There is plenty of evidence as submitted in comments to US Fish and Wildlife Service that the 1963 female jaguar that was killed at an unheard of altitude over 9,000' and hundreds of miles north of the Mexican border was imported for the purpose of sport hunting. A known guide of "canned" jaguar hunts in Arizona lived and led hunts within 50 miles of that location. The jaguar was killed in between the time he was arrested and the time he was convicted on Lacey Act charges for illegal transport of wild animals. The cat and a young male jaguar killed nearby the following January– in the snow– may have been intentionally released to avoid further charges. It is the stated opinion of this guide that those two jaguars had "plenty of help" getting to where they had gotten to. Whether this person released them himself, or they were released by someone else is unknown, but his opinion is the highest expertise on the subject. Both jaguars were killed in his usual hunting grounds on the Mogollon Rim close to the time he was leading dozens of predator hunts. His hounds were the best jaguar hounds in the world, and if jaguars had been naturally present he'd have known about them.

The myth that Coronado's expedition saw jaguars is based on unreliable, incorrect, embellished translations. The original documentation from Coronado's expedition citing jaguars in Coronado's August 3, 1540 letter to viceroy Mendoza is based on a third-hand English translation of an Italian translation by a known, unreliable translator, Ramusio. Ramusio was famous for his exaggerations, as noted by historians Richard and Shirley Flint, who consider Ramusio's translations highly unreliable. Coronado's original letter is lost to history.

The only other document supposedly citing jaguars was Pedro de Castaneda's circa 1563 narrative of the 1540 Coronado expedition. The original of this too, was lost to history, but a supposedly reliable copy was made in 1596 at Seville. This copy does not mention jaguars. They were added in translation to English. The original Spanish states, "Hay leones pardos que se vieron..." The Spaniards used the word "tigres" for jaguars. The nomenclature of animals seen on the expedition corresponds closely to the nomenclature used in 1526 by Oviedo in describing the fauna seen by the first Spaniards to enter the New World. Oviedo wrote the first natural history of New Spain on order from King Carlos V, setting the standard to which later explorers would adhere. Oviedo clearly described tigres as large ferocious, man-eating spotted cats. He mentioned separately, "leones pardos," not mentioning spots, and "gatos cervales," which he described as much smaller ferocious cats. Pedro de Castaneda mentioned "leones pardos" and "gatos cervales" in his narrative of the Coronado expedition, but made no mention whatever of tigres. He lived in Culiacan, an area of western Mexico within the range of jaguars. He would have known them if he had seen them. My conclusion is that "leones pardos" refers to ordinary mountain lions.

There are very few verifiable, reliable records of jaguars in Arizona or New Mexico prior to 1900. This is confirmed by Elliot Coues in his 1847 report, "Mammals of Arizona," among reports written by others in that period. He stated that no jaguars or ocelots were known within the territorial limits of the USA except in the valley of the Rio Grande in Texas. The narrative of James Ohio Pattie's extensive trapping expeditions in 1829 on waterways throughout southern Arizona mentions only one specimen that may have been a jaguar, but this was seen on the Colorado River at least 16 miles south of the present Arizona/Mexico border. The narrative provides much better evidence that jaguars were not present before white settlement than evidence that they were. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Backwardlook (talk • contribs) 04:14, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

It says there are "single cats" living in the Western U.S. Since when???? Where????? There's no reference for this claim either and obviously you have a problem with this statement or you wouldn't have a whole paragraph in the talk section dedicated to its NOT living in the U.S., ever. The mountain lion's range basically takes up where the jaguar's leaves off and that's to be expected since they both eat the same animals and would be direct competition with each other if they inhabited the same places.

Suggested Change Up

I noticed that section 5.1, discussing Jaguars in the United states is a sub-topic under "Conservation Status" but since Jaguars no longer exist in the wild in the United States, perhaps that topic should be removed from the Conservation section and placed somewhere else, and more research should be done on current conservation efforts in Central and South America, and those should be added to the Conservation section. The mention that they once resided in the wild in the United States might be a better fit in the "distribution" section as it discusses how the population once stretched upwards into the southern United States, but has since been eliminated from that area. LuckyNumberFive (talk) 00:41, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

@LuckyNumberFive: Or should the section about Jaguars in the United States of America be transferred to North American jaguar, considering that I made that article to store more specific information about jaguars in the North America, including the United States, than might be acceptable in the more general article about the jaguar? Leo1pard (talk) 16:52, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

More practical range map

We need a more practical range map, like that at Cougar. It is not necessary or useful to show the entire planet, for a species constrained to one hemisphere, and it will mislead readers into trying to hunt through the (low-resolution) image trying to find spots outside the Western Hemisphere, since it implies there must be some or such a wide map would not have been used.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  01:17, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Jaguar Location

             Refrence:        http://usajaguars.com/sports/2010/6/30/GEN_0630101424.aspx?tab=athletictradition

During the late 1960’s, USA housed a live Jaguar on the campus. In 1968, Baton Rouge, La., civil engineer Toxie Craft donated a year old South American Jaguar to the University to serve as the official mascot. Craft’s first cousin, Huntley Fairchild of Sunshine, La., had learned from Jaguar Club member R.H. Radcliff Jr., that South Alabama was trying to acquire a live Jaguar to serve as the school’s mascot. Arrangements were made with USA Athletic Director Dr. Mel Lucas to bring the animal to Mobile.

Elizatate4859 (talk) 00:13, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Interesting, but I doubt if information from the reference should be here. Maybe it fits better in the more specific pages North American jaguar and South American jaguar, which I made to merge information from articles that I previously created, such as Arizonan jaguar, Central American jaguar, Pantanal jaguar, and Peruvian jaguar. Leo1pard (talk) 08:04, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

References

The Jaguar is a Felid, but not a Feline.

Multiple times throughout this article the Jaguar is refered to as a Feline. This is incorrect. "Feline" refers to a member of the genus "Felinae" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felinae ), the Jaguar is not a member of this genus. It is indeed a "Felid" of the family "Felidae" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felidae ) but its genus is Panthera ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthera ).

I would suggest replacing each instance with the word "Felid".

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Duclicsic (talk • contribs) 23:29, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Note: Felidae agrees with you, however the disambiguation page at Feline suggests that it's not entirely inappropriate to call felidae by the name 'feline.' I'm afraid I don't have the necessary background to make a judgment call on this myself, so I will leave your request open. BigNate37_(T) 17:36, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. From what I can gather, in addition to describing members of the subfamily Felinae, "feline" also is widely applied to members of the larger Felidae family. Two dictionaries say so explicitly (1, 2), two others at least imply it (3, 4), and it does appear to be the case (5, 6, 7). While it undoubtedly would be more specific to say "felid", since it's a narrower definition, it seems that it isn't inaccurate to say "feline". In the absence of any endorsements to your request in 15 days, I'm inclined to close it now. Feel free to seek consensus for the change; I won't oppose it. Rivertorch (talk) 06:08, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

The subfamily Felinae is used in two ways. When discussing living cats, Felinae is used to separate the "feline" small cats from the pantherine cats. In this sense the jaguar is not a feline. But the literature on extinct cats uses Felinae in a different sense, to separate the sabre-toothed cats (Machairodontinae) from living cats and their close relatives. In this latter sense the jaguar is a feline. In general, the wikipedia pages on cats (e..g. Felidae) tend to make the distinction between feline and pantherine, so I would use felid. But this is a personal preference and the usage in this article is consistent and appropriate. Jts1882 (talk) 11:11, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Not done: I concur with the above explanation "the usage in this article is consistent and appropriate" and no-one has spoken in favour of the proposal since August 2012 - Arjayay (talk) 13:36, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Where were you, Jts1882, four and a half years ago when we needed you? Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 14:03, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Dis-ambiguation heading

The dis-ambiguation heading definitely needs attention. To me, the most common definition of panther is the black panther. Any way to improve the heading?? Georgia guy (talk) 17:30, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, it's the most common but not the only one. What do you suggest? Rivertorch (talk) 06:11, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

The heading implies that there are 3 different animals commonly known as panthers; and the black panther isn't one of these. Georgia guy (talk) 13:05, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

It's two of them, actually. Black panther says "In Latin America, wild 'black panthers' may be black jaguars (Panthera onca); in Asia and Africa, black leopards (Panthera pardus)" --Ian Dalziel (talk) 13:49, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I think the problem is that the template doesn't work here - only melanistic leopards and (sometimes) jaguars are called panthers - it's a synonym (one of many) for the cougar. --Ian Dalziel (talk) 13:55, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I've tried to reword it without the template --Ian Dalziel (talk) 11:10, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

No, the cougar is clearly a separate species. It can be called a cougar, a puma, or a mountain lion. And it's not black. The black-colored leopard is a panther. Georgia guy (talk) 13:57, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

They're all three separate species. Felis concolor can be called a cougar, a puma, a mountain lion, a catamount OR a panther. And no, it's not black - it's the other two which have to be black to be called panthers, that's what I said. -- Ian Dalziel (talk) 15:18, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

But how common is it to call a cougar a panther?? Georgia guy (talk) 17:46, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I wish I had a source handy. My recollection (from my reading) is that it was common usage once upon a time among American pioneers, along with the variant painter, and modern usage may still exist regionally. In any event, it's in the dictionary, so we can't dismiss it. Rivertorch (talk) 23:23, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Speed

How can an article about a big cat fail to mention its sprinting speed? The leopard and tiger articles mention it, but not this one or even that of the lion. Lame. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 23:24, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

The solution, should you choose to attempt it, would be be to seek out a reliable source about the jaguar's sprinting speed and incorporate what you find into the article. Then again, the last sentence in the Social activity section suggests that such sources may be elusive. Rivertorch (talk) 03:34, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Largest Carnivore

Article Says: The jaguar, a compact and well-muscled animal, is the largest cat in the New World and the largest carnivore in Central and South America.[26] Size and weight vary considerably: weights are normally in the range of 56–96 kg (124–211 lb).

The "Black Caiman" or "Jacare Açu", as it is known in Brazil, is bigger (i.e. 6.5 meters/300 kg), so much so that even Jaguars can fall prey to it. Perhaps the wording should read "one of the largest carnivores"

See Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_caiman or Portuguese: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacar%C3%A9-a%C3%A7u — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stuncaju (talk • contribs) 19:44, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Nice catch! I've changed it to "the largest carnivorous mammal", which sounds more precise than "one of the largest carnivores". (One of how many, one might ask.) I note that the wording you identified as problematic was sourced to an ostensibly reliable book and that I don't think my change poses a problem, since carnivorous mammals are a subset of carnivores, even if the book did (erroneously) make the broader claim. Rivertorch (talk) 20:10, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

It's possible they were using "carnivore" as in "member of Carnivora" Iapetus (talk) 12:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2014

The jaguar can take virtually any terrestrial or riparian vertebrate found in Central or South America, with a preference for large prey. The jaguar is more of a dietary generalist *that* its Old World cousins: the American tropics have a high diversity of small animals but relatively low populations and diversity of the

• that* should be *than*

ChasMick (talk) 10:54, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Done, thanks! LittleMountain5 17:40, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2014

I don't think this statement is entirely accurate "Unlike all other Panthera species, jaguars very rarely attack humans. In most of the few cases where a jaguar has turned to taking a human, the animal was either old with damaged teeth or wounded.[59]" This contradicts first hand accounts of indigenous peoples of South America being preyed on by Jaguars, and also written reports by explorers and other visitor to the jungle. Additionally, the reference link is broken. I would recommend rewriting it along the lines of "Jaguar attacks on humans occur in areas where there is frequent contact, and have been known to stalk and kill adult humans." My primary source for this would be "Noble Savages: My Life Among Two Dangerous Tribes -- the Yanomamo and the Anthropologists" (chapter 6, I can provide page numbers if needed) by Napoleon Chagnon, who was himself nearly eaten by jaguars on more than one occasion. He also mentioned that in certain areas they are hunted for food by certain indigenous peoples, but I don't have a text citation for that.

The next statement, although probably true, has source issues "Sometimes, if scared or threatened, jaguars in captivity may lash out at zookeepers.[60]" The source is not what I would consider academically valid or thorough. It's heavily biased, and doesn't cite where that information originated from. I don't have a fix for that and considering that the statement is fairly innocuous (it doesn't strain the imagination much to believe a cranky Jaguar would attack a zookeeper) it probably doesn't hurt anything but I wanted to point it out in case anybody cares.

This is my first time suggesting corrections for an article, please let me know if there's anything I can do to be better at it. Thanks!

ANY captive large cat will lash out if you annoy it, cougars especially are bad-tempered in captivity. I've personally watched a normally 'tame' adult male lion at the big zoo here have an off-day and swipe at one of the handlers that got too close to it. I wouldn't mention any of this sort of activity in an article as it's just common sense, and not an intrinsic behavior sort of thing.50.111.6.33 (talk) 16:39, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

173.31.89.47 (talk) 00:56, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 01:19, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Article contradicts itself (on diet)

In one paragraph, the article says "Like all cats, the jaguar is an obligate carnivore, feeding only on meat." Then, in the very next paragraph, we find "There is evidence that jaguars in the wild consume the roots of Banisteriopsis caapi." Which is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.7.7.90 (talk) 17:18, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Why

Its not true Zead.yamany (talk) 19:30, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 November 2014

Hello. Please update the spelling of 'pre-Columbian'. Colombia should be spelled with 'o' and not 'u' as when spelled with a 'u' this would be the correct spelling for the states of that name in USA and Canada. Thanks 190.156.56.80 (talk) 03:09, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

It refers to the Pre-Columbian era. Stickee (talk) 07:12, 8 November 2014 (UTC) Stickee (talk) 07:12, 8 November 2014 (UTCs)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 December 2014

"[...] though this may be a folk etymology it may instead be ultimately of Sanskrit origin, from pundarikam, the Sanskrit word for "tiger"."

This is unsubstantiated as in oxforddictionaries.com there is no mention of any folk etymology as regards to the Greek origin of the word and the etymonline.com is not as reputable as merriam-webster.com, which makes no mention of such.87.92.45.112 (talk) 00:33, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree that this needs to be removed. pundarīka- means "lotus-flower" in Sanskrit and the most common word for tiger is vyāghra-, and as the user above noted, no Sanskrit cognates are referred to in the cited dictionaries. Aso2101 (talk) 03:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Undo

I changed the 2000 lbf in physical characteristics because it's obviously exaggerated to a more reliable bite force with reference, editors should simply fix the reference error and not undo it.Editor abcdef (talk) 21:27, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2015

The AZGF department euthanized Macho B because he was suffering from capture myopothy associated with his illegal snaring. His kidneys failed because he was too old to be tranquilized and the person involved with this did not know what they were doing. Please change this to show how/why Macho B was really killed.... 8.3.50.21 (talk) 19:01, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Presumably you have a source that lead you to believe that the current cited description of the events leading up to his death is not "how/why he was really killed". Please provide it. Cannolis (talk) 01:24, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

female jaguars are stronger than male jaguars

female jaguars are stronger than male jaguars. joe McDonald the American photographer photographed a female jaguar attacked a male jaguar. and documented this. this photography won the first place in mammals behavior because this photography show that female jaguars are stronger than male jaguars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.121.245.67 (talk) 18:42, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

It's not unusual for large female mammalian carnivores to fight off males, as in also this case, this does not prove that females are stronger. Editor abcdef (talk) 03:32, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

so, why this photography that called "the spat" won first place in the mammals behavior category? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.121.245.67 (talk) 08:50, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

1. It's in high definition, and 2. it clearly shows a mammalian behavior. Editor abcdef (talk) 11:54, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

jaguar weight

Hi,

I can't access the reference (no 33), claiming that its not uncommon for Male Jaguars to weigh 136kg. Furthermore any Jaguar that weighed that much would be close to the world record of 148kg, and therefore would be extremely uncommon! Buffalo mozzarella (talk) 19:50, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

main image reverted

My image of a wild jaguar has been reverted. It is my opinion that an image of a wild animal (a valued image) is preferable to a photo of an animal in a zoo. Are there any other opinions? Charlesjsharp (talk) 12:01, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

File:Jaguar (Panthera onca palustris) male Rio Negro 2.JPG to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Jaguar (Panthera onca palustris) male Rio Negro 2.JPG will be appearing as picture of the day on June 23, 2017. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2017-06-23. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:23, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Picture of the day

A wild male jaguar (Panthera onca) near the Rio Negro in the Pantanal, Brazil. Jaguars from the Pantanal are the largest of their species, about 2.7 m (8.9 ft) long, with an average weight of about 100 kg (220 lb), and some weighing more than 135 kg (298 lb). A red jaguar was a mascot of the 1968 Summer Olympics in Mexico City, and during the 2016 Summer Olympics, a jaguar in the national colors of green and yellow was the Brazil team's mascot.Photograph: Charles J. Sharp

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2017

Italizise the second Panthera onca veraecrucis on the right side. This will be in Geographical variation.

(Panthera onca veraecrucis) Malcolmlucascollins (talk) 20:42, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Done Minor edit only, and a correct one. Thanks for catching this. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 20:55, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Page views

Leo1pard (talk) 09:55, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

New weight data

file:///C:/Users/pedro/Downloads/art%C3%ADculo_redalyc_33921507014.pdf In this source is saying: "According to reports of workers at Hato Piñero, one jaguar male killed there weighed 159kg and another, recently killed in the vicinity, weighed 130kg. Accordingly to a worker at Hato Socorro, a jaguar killed on the border of Cojedes and Portuguesa states weighed 180kg" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.48.210.235 (talk) 19:56, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

This looks like a download. Leo1pard (talk) 10:05, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Is the jaguar the biggest cat in Central or North America?

See this. Leo1pard (talk) 09:34, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Mcelite What happened? I thought I explained it perfectly to you over there that jaguars in Central or North America aren't as big as cougars or South American jaguars, using references like these, and that it's the South American jaguar that's big, not the North American jaguar, and this is no POV of mine. Leo1pard (talk) 05:58, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Mcelite Stop your disruptive behaviour. I tried to explain to you nicely, using relevant sources, that the jaguar is not necessarily bigger than the cougar in Central or North America, but that it's the South American jaguar that's the biggest cat in the New World, this is the one that's bigger than the cougar, which is why I keep the information that the jaguar is the biggest overall in the New World in the lead, but you continue to push in your POV, leading to issues like repetition or potentially confusing information. Leo1pard (talk) 18:08, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

You're disruptive I provide sources from reliable journal articles and research while you dismissed them. You completely removed them from the article because they didn't fit your POV. I've actually worked with both cats and yes you may have a some individual cougars that grow larger than some individual jaguars however overall the jaguar is larger even the in Mexico and the US.Mcelite (talk) 03:20, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

No, it was another user who removed the sources, not me, and your claim that jaguars in Mexico or the USA outweigh cougars is not supported by the given references. A number of references quote Nowell and Jackson as saying that the jaguar is the largest in the Americas overall, but even these guys do not specifically say that jaguars in North America (including Mexico and Central America) are bigger than cougars there, and show the opposite to be true. They quote others as saying that male Central American jaguars weigh about 57.2 kg (126 lb), whereas male cougars weigh 53–72 kg (117–159 lb) on average, with exceptional weights of up to 120 kg (260 lb), and that their size tends to increase away from the Equator (which touches the northern part of South America) and towards the poles, meaning that the largest cougars (which can weigh over 100 kg (220 lb)) would be in North America and the southern part of South America, so this supports what I have been saying, that jaguars are not necessarily bigger than cougars in North America, but due to the large size of the South American jaguar, the jaguar is nevertheless the biggest in the New World overall, and so you are the one here is is pushing a POV, whereas I was being more accurate about what the sources say. Leo1pard (talk) 04:58, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, the jaguar is the largest cat in the Americas overall. Removing that distinction because smaller jaguars in North America are rivalled by cougars is invalid hair-splitting. And please don't make radical rearrangements to a section in a FA without consensus. LittleJerry (talk) 14:46, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

LittleJerry I talked about what I would do in the article since June, but once again, you removed the sources which User:Mcellite asked you not to remove, and as I would say to Mcellite, I did not remove the sources, but put them together to remove misconceptions, and I talked about that here and elsewhere, so asking me not to make 'radical' arrangements to the article without consensus, even though I was talking about it beforehand, while at the same time making radical arrangements yourself, before even discussing them here, is not fair, so please reverse what you did to the article. Leo1pard (talk) 16:41, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

References

problem

In the jaguar page, Brazil is shown as having both a ban on jaguar hunting and a restriction on it. Could you please clarify? Also, in the keystone species page, the first picture caption has "The jaguar, a keystone, flagship, anD umbrella species, and an apex predator" on it and the typo is bugging me a little. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.164.14 (talk) 13:39, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Noted. Leo1pard (talk) 17:39, 2 June 2018 (UTC)