Talk:Italian cuisine

Non-English words

Moved from User talk:Bazza 7 § Italian cuisine and Roman cuisine

Hi, while we're at it, would you help me (actually, you did it all), kindly, to remove the italics from common foods also within the Italian cuisine page. JackkBrown (talk) 15:33, 21 November 2023 (UTC) Bazza (talk) 16:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: Feel free to list any words here which you are uncertain have been adopted into English. Remember WP:NODEADLINE, and MOS:FOREIGNITALIC.

• maccherone - English word is macaroni
• tiramisù - English word is tiramisu
• caffè or espresso - English equivalent is espresso
• zeppole - no English equivalent, use {{lang|it|zeppole}} for zeppole

Bazza (talk) 16:23, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

@Bazza 7: perfect! JackkBrown (talk) 16:24, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: Good. This page is on my watchlist. If you add more words to the list above, I will respond when I am able. Bazza (talk) 16:26, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

@Bazza 7: if you have the time and inclination, you could do the same thing you did on the "List of Italian dishes" page, removing the italics from Italian foods (and drinks) common within the English language, obviously not on the basis of your preferences but on the basis of objectivity (for example, a person who doesn't know spaghetti could put this word in italics (it's an example), but it is objective that the word "spaghetti" should not be put in italics); now that I think about it, it makes little sense for me to come and lecture you (I wrote it down just in case), you are a very technical user and you know these things yourself. I am proposing this to you because I, being a different person from you and not as good at it, could put foods and drinks in italics that you on the "List of Italian dishes" page did not put in italics, creating an incoherence, to the point that readers would no longer know which foods should be put in italics and which should not. JackkBrown (talk) 02:56, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Pasta shapes

@Denisarona: You reverted a change I made stating incorrect - original Italian words are the correct names - e.g. lasagne is a type of Italian dish, not something for the bed. Your edit summary is incorrect.

The original sentence clearly indicated that it concerned a list of shapes after which pastas are named: Most pastas may be distinguished by the shapes for which they are named—penne, maccheroni, spaghetti, linguine, fusilli, lasagne..

I added English translations for those shapes or objects in parentheses afterwards: Most pastas may be distinguished by the shapes for which they are named—penne, spaghetti, linguine, fusilli, lasagne ("quill", "thin string", "tongue", "spun", "sheet" respectively).

Please either restore my change, or suggest another method of indicating what each of the words means. Bazza (talk) 14:34, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Template "Good article"

This page is really very well done and complete (perhaps some small details are missing). I propose the addition of the template "Good article". JackkBrown (talk) 14:55, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, I am one of the main contributors to the article... :-) I won't comment on your proposal because I am a party to it. --LukeWiller (talk) 23:36, 3 December 2023 (UTC).

@LukeWiller: perhaps the subject of prosciutto (prosciutto crudo) and prosciutto cotto, and the variants of prosciutto crudo (prosciutto di Parma DOP, prosciutto di San Daniele, etc.) should be addressed more, but for everything else it seems to me to be a more than good page. JackkBrown (talk) 08:07, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

@LukeWiller: update: my answer has been expanded, please read it again. JackkBrown (talk) 08:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: Yes, thanks, I reread it. I agree with you: a paragraph in the "Basic foods" chapter describing the types of ham is needed. --LukeWiller (talk) 13:48, 4 December 2023 (UTC).

Users in favour? JacktheBrown (talk) 22:21, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Translation of article title into Italian

I disagree with this edit. Translation of the article title into another language is off topic. Someone who wants to know what the Italian translation of "Italian cuisine" is should be looking at an Italian-English dictionary. Wikipedia is not a dictionary. The function of this article is to describe the cuisine itself. How to say the phrase "Italian cuisine" in some other language is not relevant.-- Srleffler (talk) 06:41, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

@Srleffler: I also am left wondering what JackkBrown is doing. I have reverted the change, so they need to come here and explain themselves if they wish the text to stay. Bazza (talk) 09:30, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. I also just removed the translation on the Greek cuisine page. Names of things in the native language are appropriate for the lead (e.g. Germany = Deutschland, Lake Garda = Lago di Garda) but translations of ordinary expressions do not belong here. --Macrakis (talk) 18:56, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

@Macrakis: @Bazza 7: you're right; and User:Bazza 7, you were right to undo my change. JackkBrown (talk) 02:08, 01 January 2024 (UTC)

French cuisine had it as well. Removed.--Srleffler (talk) 02:46, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Ugh, it looks like nearly every "cuisine" article has this. I cleared the A's in Category:Cuisine by country.--Srleffler (talk) 02:54, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

I checked the J's, K's, and L's. I fixed a few (Lao, Kosovar), but most didn't have the problem. --Macrakis (talk) 20:40, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

I checked B through I. That leaves M–Z.--Srleffler (talk) 22:33, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

"Gelato"

User:Bazza 7, this is absolutely not a criticism, but I'm trying to understand. In a past edit you put "gelato" in italics (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1187936787), so I, trusting you, wrote "gelato" in italics on the "Italy", "Italian cuisine" and "List of Italian dishes" pages. Since you've changed your mind, we need to write this term without italics on these three pages. JackkBrown (talk) 15:32, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Problem solved, but clearer ideas next time, thank you. JackkBrown (talk) 15:51, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: Are you instructing me? Bazza (talk) 16:23, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

@Bazza 7: no, however we all have something to learn, nobody is perfect. JackkBrown (talk) 16:40, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: I really find your attitude patronising and tedious. None of us are perfect. If you'd bothered to check in an English dictionary yourself whether gelato is considered an English word or not, as has been suggested to you numerous times on the Help Desk, then you would have known it is not and not made the mistakes you continue to make. Bazza (talk) 16:52, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

UNESCO World Heritage Site Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity

On the Italian language Wikipedia page (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucina_italiana), the infobox states that the Mediterranean diet is an intangible heritage of humanity, a UNESCO World Heritage Site (since 2010). Why not add it here too? JackkBrown (talk) 19:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

That's bizarre. Do we have a reliable source for that? I did not find it in a quick scan of UNESCO's list. Even if true and properly sourced, it would belong at Mediterranean diet Mediterranean cuisine, and not here.--Srleffler (talk) 20:20, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

@Srleffler: Here is a very reliable source: https://www.unitelmasapienza.it/news/perche-la-dieta-mediterranea-e-diventata-un-patrimonio-unesco/#:~:text=La%20dieta%20fu%20riconosciuta%20come,di%20appartenenza%20e%20di%20continuit%C3%A0; let me know if you want one in your language too. JackkBrown (talk) 00:51, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

@Srleffler: no longer needed, on the Mediterranean diet page it's already present (as a nutritional recommendation, the Mediterranean diet is different from the cultural practices identified by UNESCO in 2010 under the heading "Mediterranean diet" on the Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity which defined the diet as "a set of skills, knowledge, rituals, symbols and traditions concerning crops, harvesting, fishing, animal husbandry, conservation, processing, cooking, and particularly the sharing and consumption of food".) JackkBrown (talk) 1:00, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I see. Not a UNESCO World Heritage Site, but rather a UNESCO Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity. The links you gave are broken, but this one works: Mediterranean diet. --Srleffler (talk) 07:16, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Thinking about this some more, I still do not think this should be highlighted with a template in this article. It's not directly relevant enough. What UNESCO is recognizing is much broader than just Italian cuisine, and in fact is broader than Mediterranean cuisine. (There has been some discussion of this at Talk:Mediterranean cuisine.)

References

British English or American English?

This page contains, for example, both "biscuit" (British English) and "cookie" (American English). The Jack (talk) 12:49, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

I've removed the two instances of "cookie" that, in my opinion, intended "cookie" in a non-British sense. "Cookie" is also used in British English, but has a narrower meaning for a specific type of biscuit. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 22:27, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

@IgnatiusofLondon: please, can you also check the List of Italian dishes page? JacktheBrown (talk) 15:57, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

That article isn't tagged as British English. Per MOS:ENGVAR, use whatever variation of English was used in its first non-stub revision. I'd be happy to check, but you're the major editor to that article as far as I know, and I encourage you to trust yourself; I know you are particularly thorough when it comes to consistency anyway :)) IgnatiusofLondon (he/him • ☎️) 00:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@IgnatiusofLondon: exactly! In the future I'll decide what to do. ;) JacktheBrown (talk) 00:58, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Many examples of British English are contained. Denisarona (talk) 09:00, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

@Denisarona: although the article is, according to the template (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Italian_cuisine&diff=prev&oldid=1213984840), written in British English, some words in American English are still present (e.g. "cookie"). JacktheBrown (talk) 22:39, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

OXFORD COMMA

Could someone help me insert the Oxford comma where it's needed? The page isn't short... JacktheBrown (talk) 17:39, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Merger from Salumi

This page doesn't have a paragraph about salumi, very important in Italian cuisine; I think it would be a very good idea to add this paragraph. JacktheBrown (talk) 14:31, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

To be clear, are you suggesting a WP:MERGE or just adding a note about salumi to this article?--Un assiolo (talk) 16:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

@Un assiolo: WP:MERGE. JacktheBrown (talk) 17:40, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

@Un assiolo: alternatively, the note is also fine. JacktheBrown (talk) 17:45, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't agree with turning the article Salumi into a redirect (it is an encyclopedic article anyway). You can always create a new paragraph about salumi that deals with cured meats. I don't see where the problem is. --LukeWiller (talk) 17:46, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

@LukeWiller: what I said. But if this isn't possible, a note about salumi to this article and the non-deletion of the salumi page is also fine in my opinion. JacktheBrown (talk) 17:50, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

I have added the term salumi to a pre-existing sentence about cured meats. If there are no objections, I will now remove the merge templates.--Un assiolo (talk) 13:54, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

@Un assiolo: no, it's not enough! A paragraph is necessary, salumi in Italy are very important. JacktheBrown (talk) 14:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Well, the article itself only has three sentences of prose and is mostly just a list. So there isn't much to merge. I have now copied most of the prose into this article. Is that sufficient?--Un assiolo (talk) 15:21, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

@Un assiolo: good work! JacktheBrown (talk) 14:27, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - FA24 - Sect 200 - Thu

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 September 2024 and 13 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nyn218 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Nyn218 (talk) 23:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

This is wonderful! JacktheBrown (talk) 00:08, 26 October 2024 (UTC)