Talk:Ismail Haniyeh

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Reason behind his arrests/assassination attempt

Took out the unfootnoted reference regarding his involvement in targeting Israeli civilians. Haniyeh is personally against these attacks and Israeli officials have conceded that they have no evidence of any such involvement. [SEE http://www.counterpunch.org/hass03172006.html]. His arrests were administrative detentions due to the fact he is affiliated with Hamas.

Elimination

This term is terribly draconian, something a cold hearted fascist would use with routine. Political killings are known as 'assassinations', not mere eliminations.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request UNRWA employee

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The lead should say that Ismail Haniyeh was an (ex) UNRWA teacher. sources:

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-terror-chief-haniyeh-was-an-unwra-teacher-reveals-former-un-official-nvlqbb16 https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/hamas-chief-haniyeh-was-an-unrwa-school-teacher/ https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/387304 https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-792791 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.22.130.45 (talk • contribs) 06:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: those sources got the information from the claims of 1 person as translated by MEMRI whose reliability is "between no consensus and generally unreliable". Rainsage (talk) 22:14, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The video is in Arabic, you can litterally hear him say "Mu'alem fi al Unrwa, Ismail Haniyeh" (Teacher at (the) Unrwa , Ismail Haniyeh) , there are many Wikipedia editors who know Arabic well enough who could confirm that by watching the actual video from the thejc link. 2A00:C281:1212:7B00:5C69:A009:A9B9:D10B (talk) 13:02, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When he was born?

The New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/31/world/middleeast/ismail-haniyeh-dead.html and The Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/07/31/israel-iran-ismail-haniyeh-killed-tehran-hamas/d5a6682a-4f10-11ef-9728-3037305a6b0f_story.html list his birth as 1962. 188.210.239.4 (talk) 09:52, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Washington Post article doesn't mention his birth date or year anymore. There's an addendum: "This article corrects Haniyeh’s age when he died. He was 62." That would mean he was born between 1961-08-01 and 1962-07-31. — Chrisahn (talk) 13:18, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@188.210.239.4 Oh. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 11:58, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 August 2024

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The footnote for the quote "Haniyeh was seen as one of the more pragmatic and moderate figures in Hamas.[12]" at the end of the third paragraph of this article cites a reuters article linked here (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/obituary-tough-talking-haniyeh-was-seen-more-moderate-face-hamas-2024-07-31/) which simply states the following: "But despite the rhetoric, he was seen by many diplomats as a moderate compared to the more hardline members of the Iran-backed group inside Gaza."

This claim is not substantiated in any way, and Haniyeh was not seen as a moderate.

Here is a video of Ismail Haniyeh praying while watching footage of October 7th, 2023, during which Hamas militants infiltrated Israel and killed thousands of people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pm1anGlQSU.

This is not something a moderate would do. This sentence from the third paragraph of this article and its associated footnote should be struck. Thank you. Aristonkle (talk) 13:38, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Reuters is considered generally reliable, and that claim seems to be supported by the article. If you take out some extraneous wording to simplify both quotes you gave, both the article and Reuters say he was seen [...] as [...] moderate. Additionally, as an encyclopedia, Wikipedia doesn't care what's "right" or "wrong" in your eyes or mine. We care what's supported by reliable sources, and this statement is. Finally, YouTube videos are generally unreliable, and your personal interpretation of one is original research, which we don't use in our articles at all. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 02:52, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This reply @Bsoykadoes not address the conflict between the Reuters article and the conduct being demonstrated by Haniyeh in the video. If your issue with the video is that it is on YouTube given source reliability:

1. Here is the same video from New Delhi TV: https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/not-celebrating-anymore-video-shows-hamas-chiefs-reaction-to-oct-7-attack-6229312

2. An article from the National Post substantiates this by saying "Haniyeh celebrated this heinous act" in reference to October 7th: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/avi-benlolo-ismail-haniyeh-brutalized-israelis-and-betrayed-the-palestinian-people

3. An additional India based source (Wio News) shares the same video of Haniyeh celebrating and prostrating himself during the attacks on October 7th: https://www.wionews.com/world/ismail-haniyeh-assassinated-a-video-of-hamas-leader-watching-oct-7-attacks-on-israel-resurfces-745823

Once again - the third paragraph's ending sentence in the following: "Haniyeh was seen by many diplomats as one of the more pragmatic and moderate figures in Hamas."

The framing of this sentence given the above is not neutral and should be balanced given there are clear examples of him not acting as a "moderate". Aristonkle (talk) 12:45, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies - intended to tag @Bsoyka Aristonkle (talk) 12:49, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aristonkle: That sourcing looks a little better to me, but there's still nothing there that explicitly states "Haniyeh was not a moderate." I would lean toward supporting a change like "Some sources saw Haniyeh as a more moderate figure in Hamas, while others commented on his celebration in October 2023 of the Hamas-led attack on Israel," but I'll let someone else finish this review off who's a bit more familiar with the subject. As required by our edit request process, I recommend you suggest the specific text you'd like to add with complete citations. (However, I might recommend leaving the National Post article out, as that seems to be an opinion piece.) Bsoyka (t • c • g) 13:30, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply @Bsoyka.

My suggested edit is the following given the above input and back and forth: "Some sources saw Haniyeh as a more moderate figure in Hamas, while others commented on his celebration in October 2023 of the Hamas-led attack on Israel."

Additional citations for the above:

1. Newsweek: https://www.newsweek.com/ismail-haniyeh-hamas-moderate-iran-israel-palestine-1932708

2. Memri: https://www.memri.org/reports/egyptian-writer-dalia-ziada-hamas-leader-haniyeh-was-not-moderate-politician-murderous Aristonkle (talk) 18:50, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

<- Aristonkle is not extended confirmed. They can submit edit requests. They can't participate in consensus forming discussions as appears to be the case here. Sorry Aristonkle, those are the rules under WP:ARBECR. Sean.hoyland (talk) 04:02, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please point me to the specific language in the rules that states that non-extended confirmed members cannot participate in consensus forming discussions? The link you provided states the following @Sean.hoyland:

"The Committee may apply the "Reliable source consensus-required restriction" to specified topic areas. For topic areas with this restriction, when a source that is not an article in a peer-reviewed scholarly journal, an academically focused book by a reputable publisher, and/or an article published by a reputable institution is removed from an article, no editor may reinstate the source without first obtaining consensus on the talk page of the article in question or consensus about the reliability of the source in a discussion at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard. Administrators may enforce this restriction with page protections, topic bans, or blocks; enforcement decisions should consider not merely the severity of the violation but the general disciplinary record of the editor in violation."

The rules also say the following:

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Nowhere does this say that I can't participate in consensus building discussions. I have provided ample sources that @Bsoyka has states as being reliable to support improving the balanced nature of the sentence in the article that I am stating should be edited. Aristonkle (talk) 12:52, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, "Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles". Also, see above where Bsoyka helpfully informed you "As required by our edit request process, I recommend you suggest the specific text you'd like to add with complete citations." So, in a nutshell, there is a simple and easy to follow rule, non-EC editors are limited to submitting edit requests until they become extendedconfirmed. If you would like further information, I suggest you ask admin ScottishFinnishRadish. I'm sure you will have no trouble whatsoever following this rule. Why would anyone have any trouble following the rule? Sean.hoyland (talk) 13:14, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no problem following the rule. I suggested the edit above:

"My suggested edit is the following given the above input and back and forth: "Some sources saw Haniyeh as a more moderate figure in Hamas, while others commented on his celebration in October 2023 of the Hamas-led attack on Israel." Aristonkle (talk) 17:17, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. This seems to be based on WP:OR, and the change is disputed. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 15:27, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 August 2024

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Change "On 31 July 2024, Haniyeh was assassinated by an explosive device planted in his guesthouse in Tehran, likely by Israeli Mossad agents." to On 31 July 2024, Haniyeh was assassinated by a short range projectile launched from outside his residence^[1] in Tehran, likely by Israeli Mossad agents." 64.180.206.245 (talk) 17:04, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~That's the opposite of what the Jewish Chronicle says. AnonMoos (talk) 18:04, 8 August 2024 (UTC)~~[reply]

Oops, the Jewish Chronicle story has now been revealed to be a hoax, so disregard my comment... AnonMoos (talk) 21:41, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 15:27, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 August 2024

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In "personal life," there is a reference to a 2014 Ynet article asserting that Haniyeh was a millionaire. But according to more recent reports, he was worth $4 billion.

https://mackenzieinstitute.com/2023/11/hamass-top-leaders-are-worth-billions-heres-how-they-continue-to-grow-rich/

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ismail-haniyeh-net-worth-2024-062649649.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGcL060T3NgvEWE1LesTSKPKpDdV07ijm2tnWg84a91EF-GLtdbEN6SmMk4GK6nHcSZHeI1O4JBOy8bcVoT4fj5ZoRY39_rgH_GsC1ypYapOs7mUv_U1L7gpxOXftW7jaaqRAENe3909Q9fAfp1KEZTdzV6zbj7fstR9W8D1I-LC&guccounter=2#:~:text=Ismail%20Haniyeh%20had%20an%20estimated,activities%20linked%20to%20his%20position Ajkoller (talk) 18:57, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Rainsage (talk) 03:10, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 October 2024

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Add that he had a net worth of 4 billion dollars my sources:

https://books.google.com/books?id=gc8ojSEe0C8C&pg=PA30&dq=Haniyeh+net+worth&hl=ar&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiB9oyykJ-JAxW0BdsEHQbOMUgQ6AF6BAgNEAM#v=onepage&q=Haniyeh%20net%20worth&f=false

https://www.banking.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/peltka_testimony_10-26-23.pdf

https://nypost.com/2023/11/07/news/hamas-leaders-worth-11bn-live-luxury-lives-in-qatar/

https://mackenzieinstitute.com/2023/11/hamass-top-leaders-are-worth-billions-heres-how-they-continue-to-grow-rich/

Whoamirlly (talk) 09:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: not an uncontroversial improvement. M.Bitton (talk) 13:59, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/8/3/haniyeh-killed-by-short-range-projectile-fired-from-outside-home-irgc

[1] ttps://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/8/3/haniyeh-killed-by-short-range-projectile-fired-from-outside-home-irgc

[1]