Talk:Islamist anti-Hamas groups in the Gaza Strip

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Duplicate group

A simpler translation of Haq حق is "truth", so I'm fairly sure that Swords of Truth is just the translation of the group above. Unless you have a reason to think they are separate?

I would call them "Swords of Truth" and give the other name as a translation in the first sentence, because most group names get translated, e.g. we say Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and not "Kataeb Shuhada Al-Aqsa".

MWQs (talk) MWQs (talk) 16:30, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Evaporation123, are you still working on this? Is there a reason you think Swords of Truth and Suyuf al-Haq are separate? MWQs (talk) 09:30, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It may have been my mistake. I do not know Arabic, so I saw the words "righteousness" and "truth" and assumed there were two groups just with similar names. Given what you now say and what Wiktionary says ("to be true, to be confirmed to be right, to be correct, to be necessary, to be obligatory, to be imperative, to be adequate, to be suitable, to be appropriate...") it does seem like it is one not two groups. Evaporation123 (talk) 18:35, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Evaporation123 thank you, I'll combine those two sections. Did you notice which name seems to be more common? I think I've seen "Swords of Truth" in a few places. They are a bit hard to Google because they seem to be named after a story in the Quran that is mentioned far more often than they are. MWQs (talk) 02:35, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the sources cited for that section use the "swords of righteousness" or some sort of variation on that. Again, it's an Arabic translation and in this particular case the translated meaning is quite flexible, it can either be "righteousness" or "truth". So maybe we can use Swords of Righteousness just because that translation is more common. It barely matters though. Evaporation123 (talk) 06:45, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It can matter of the search results for different translations tell vastly different stories? But as long as we mention the other one the heading doesn't matter. They were referred to on at least one other page as Swords of Truth. MWQs (talk) 07:41, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just changed it to:

Suyuf al-Haq (Arabic: سيوف الحق, romanized: Suyūf al-Ħaq, lit. 'The Swords of Truth' or 'The Swords of Righteousness') is or was a "veteran" group...

I think this is fine, both translations of "haqq" are included. Evaporation123 (talk) 16:53, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems you combined them already. I hope it is OK that I have been working on this draft, I'm not sure what the etiquette is on that? MWQs (talk) 07:39, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah it's completely fine, etiquette is just like anywhere else on Wikipedia, check WP:EP Evaporation123 (talk) 16:56, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I would have asked first if it was in user space, but drafts seemed communal. It seems I guessed right. MWQs (talk) 06:24, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think they are different to Swords of Righteousness Brigade, the Iraqi group? MWQs (talk) 09:50, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That distinction is mentioned in the article. Evaporation123 (talk) 18:36, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I saw that afterwards, yes. MWQs (talk) 02:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Evaporation123, if you are an extended confirmed user now you can probably move this to main space yourself rather than keep waiting for the review? But maybe comment-out the "Ideological points of unity" section before you do, because most points are currently unsourced. MWQs (talk) 22:20, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done, thank you for your help! Evaporation123 (talk) 23:27, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Music

It's not a general modern culture thing, it's specifically music. A lot of Islamic fundamentalism interprets a couple of hadith to mean most music is not allowed. But Hamas fairly obviously don't share this view. MWQs (talk) 21:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The salafists perceive music as part of a more liberal culture thing though, which is why I condensed it. Evaporation123 (talk) 23:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ideological points of unity

@Evaporation123, for #Ideological points of unity, I wasn't intending it as a list of things they all agree on, it was more a list of various things that many fundamentalist or radical groups disagree with Hamas about. I think a few are nationalist and a few think music is fine, etc.? MWQs (talk) 22:17, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Connections to Sinai

More groups formed around 2007 in reaction to Hamas taking control of the Gaza Strip.^[1]

Groups in Gaza and the Sinai

So-called Islamic State, Sinai Province

ISIL (so-called Islamic State, also known as ISIS, or Da'esh) in the Sinai Peninsular had a hostile relationship with Hamas.

SIn the first week of 2018, ISIL (so-called Islamic State, also known as ISIS, or Da'esh) in the Sinai declared war on Hamas.^[2] To announce their declaration of war, ISIL published a video showing the execution of a man they claimed was from Hamas.^[3]^[2] Among the executioners was another Palestinian from Gaza, Mohammad al-Dajni. He was subsequently disowned by his family in Gaza, who condemned the execution, and said they had severed ties with him.^[3]

^ https://ecfr.eu/special/mapping_palestinian_politics/salafi_jihadis/ "A small number of different Salafi-jihadi groups formed following Hamas’s seizure of the Gaza Strip in 2007. Some of these groups were formed by disgruntled Hamas members who had grown increasingly critical of what they saw as the group’s softening of positions towards Israel. Other groups were formed by clans as a way of gaining political legitimacy."
^ ^a ^b "ISIS Declares War on Rival Hamas with Video Execution".
^ ^a ^b "ISIS in Sinai Executes Hamas Militant, Accuses Gaza Group of Abandoning Palestinians - Palestinians - Haaretz.com".

FourPi (talk) 09:21, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pasted here to discuss later. FourPi (talk) 09:22, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://ecfr.eu/special/mapping_palestinian_politics/salafi_jihadis/ "A small number of different Salafi-jihadi groups formed following Hamas’s seizure of the Gaza Strip in 2007. Some of these groups were formed by disgruntled Hamas members who had grown increasingly critical of what they saw as the group’s softening of positions towards Israel. Other groups were formed by clans as a way of gaining political legitimacy."

[NDTV_ISIS-2] "ISIS Declares War on Rival Hamas with Video Execution".

[Haaretz_ISIS-3] "ISIS in Sinai Executes Hamas Militant, Accuses Gaza Group of Abandoning Palestinians - Palestinians - Haaretz.com".

[1]

[2]

[3]