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Including Israel?

I edited this article to include a reference to Palestinians in Israel in the lede, which has since been reverted. Obviously there's already an article at Islam in Israel (which needs some work of its own), but given that the history section of this article isn't restricted to the modern State of Palestine but includes events, mosques, etc throughout Palestine (region), and a good portion of Palestinians presently live in Israel, so surely we can include some cross-over. TrickyH (talk) 21:14, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The controversy surrounding these two places is a reason why I would prefer to emphasize the broader, historical region of Shaam.^[a] Leo1pard (talk) 06:39, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

^ Ash-Shâm (Arabic: اَلـشَّـام) is a region that is bordered by the Taurus Mountains of Anatolia in the north, the Mediterranean Sea in the west, the Arabian Desert in the south, and Mesopotamia in the east.^[1] It includes the modern countries of Syria and Lebanon, and the land of Palestine.^[2]^[3]

References

^ Killebrew, A. E.; Steiner, M. L. (2014). The Oxford Handbook of the Archaeology of the Levant: C. 8000-332 BCE. OUP Oxford. p. 2. ISBN 978-0-19-921297-2. The western coastline and the eastern deserts set the boundaries for the Levant ... The Euphrates and the area around Jebel el-Bishrī mark the eastern boundary of the northern Levant, as does the Syrian Desert beyond the Anti-Lebanon range's eastern hinterland and Mount Hermon. This boundary continues south in the form of the highlands and eastern desert regions of Transjordan.
^ Article "AL-SHĀM" by C.E. Bosworth, Encyclopaedia of Islam, Volume 9 (1997), page 261.
^ Salibi, K. S. (2003). A House of Many Mansions: The History of Lebanon Reconsidered. I.B.Tauris. pp. 61–62. ISBN 978-1-86064-912-7. To the Arabs, this same territory, which the Romans considered Arabian, formed part of what they called Bilad al-Sham, which was their own name for Syria. From the classical perspective however Syria, including Palestine, formed no more than the western fringes of what was reckoned to be Arabia between the first line of cities and the coast. Since there is no clear dividing line between what are called today the Syrian and Arabian deserts, which actually form one stretch of arid tableland, the classical concept of what actually constituted Syria had more to its credit geographically than the vaguer Arab concept of Syria as Bilad al-Sham. Under the Romans, there was actually a province of Syria, with its capital at Antioch, which carried the name of the territory. Otherwise, down the centuries, Syria like Arabia and Mesopotamia was no more than a geographic expression. In Islamic times, the Arab geographers used the name arabicized as Suriyah, to denote one special region of Bilad al-Sham, which was the middle section of the valley of the Orontes river, in the vicinity of the towns of Homs and Hama. They also noted that it was an old name for the whole of Bilad al-Sham which had gone out of use. As a geographic expression, however, the name Syria survived in its original classical sense in Byzantine and Western European usage, and also in the Syriac literature of some of the Eastern Christian churches, from which it occasionally found its way into Christian Arabic usage. It was only in the nineteenth century that the use of the name was revived in its modern Arabic form, frequently as Suriyya rather than the older Suriyah, to denote the whole of Bilad al-Sham: first of all in the Christian Arabic literature of the period, and under the influence of Western Europe. By the end of that century it had already replaced the name of Bilad al-Sham even in Muslim Arabic usage.

Page views

Leo1pard (talk) 06:39, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

On Refugees

The current wording asserts "Prior to and during this conflict, 700,000[34] Palestinians Arabs fled their original lands to become Palestinian refugees, in part, due to a promise from Arab leaders that they would be able to return when the war is won.[35]" regarding refugees. This wording is not view point neutral. I think some of it is due to the translation while other parts seem more intentionally misleading by stating that the reason they left was Arab leaders telling them they would come back when it was over. Disregarding that any who left willingly may have assumed that they would be able to return, given it is international law, the largescale forced displacement of Palestinians in 1948 by Israeli forces and militias is an accepted historical event by nearly all historians and scholars of the region.

A more proper wording would be "Prior to and during the conflict, 700,000 Palestinians were displaced from their original lands to becoming refugees. While many were forcefully displaced by Israeli forces and militias, others left willingly to escape the conflict with the intention of returning once the conflict was over."

If one wanted they could even link to the Nakba article as this is the event in question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pitts.nordera (talk • contribs) 19:33, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Al-Aqsa mosque and Dome of the Rock

In the Early Crusades section, it says: The Crusaders transformed the Dome of the Rock into the "Shrine of the Lord" and the Al-Aqsa mosque into the "Hall of Solomon"

Considering the Dome of the Rock is part of the Al-Aqsa mosque by most definitions, I find this paragraph very confusing.--Crazyketchupguy (talk) 15:49, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious Claim of Demographic Shift During Muhammad Ali Pashas Short Conquest of Palestine

In the article's "rise of the ottomans section" section it claims "Ibrahim Pasha's conquests had a significant demographic change as the region of Palestine had an influx of Muslim tribal immigrants" yet the source it provides is completely lacking for the following reasons: 1. The source doesnt actually give any demographics data whatsoever, the only numbers in the entire document is on page 15 were it says: "When unlawful, foreign workers, as those are discovered by the police, are repatriated. No precise figures of their number are available but a recent police estimate is as follows." to list the total guessed number of repatriated illegal immigrants (no actual data just a guess, and again no data about Egyptian immigrants) for the entirety of Palestine to be 9,687. other than that there rest of the "data" list a number of villages adapted from braver (1975: 17) that shows a population increase (no demographics provided) and the authors conveniently claim that this is due to Egyptians, and the increase itself is only in the hundreds of people. Given that in 1948 the population was almost 900k this is a three orders of magnitude difference ( 0.01% of the population) 2. The publisher of this article is Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, which is described in Jerusalem_Center_for_Public_Affairs as "The JCPA is considered to be politically neo-conservative. It is being financed to a large degree by Sheldon Adelson, a steadfast supporter of Jewish settlement of the West Bank." 3. This document promotes a common trope used by anti-Palestinian activists to justify the ethnic cleansing of Palestine by claiming the majority of Palestinians today are new comers from Egypt and everywhere else (except from Palestine) who only came to the port cities due to the prosperity brought by Jewish immigration, which is btw where the arrest data they provide is focused on (areas with high jewish immigrants i.e. in haifa, yaffa and the galilee). 4. In the intro of the article the authors literally cite a Hamas speech claiming that Palestinians are just Egyptians and Saudis (while pleading for help from other Arab countries). The authors claim that since many people say that all Jews in Israel are immigrants and foreigners, they wanted to shatter the myth that Palestinians are native. 5. Modern genetic studies (behar et al 2010, behar et al, 2013) studying the population genetics of the middle east have clearly shown a distinct population cluster (in PCA plots) of Levantine groups and Egyptians, Saudis, Turks etc.. the claim that there was a massive demographic shift so recent in history (late 1800s early 1900s) would have a huge impact on these findings yet we consistently find the modern populations of these regions are distinct. 6. As the authors ironically claim Palestine's societal structure differs from region to region but revolved around prominent clans and families controlling the regions, this claim that somehow a large amount of Egyptians infiltrated such a society without anyone noticing or it being an open secret (the authors cites fellahin mocking Egyptians as proof of high Egyptian immigration") makes absolutely no sense, the majority of Palestinians as noted in benny morris's "birth of the Palestinian refugee problem, 1947-1949" are farmers or fellahin, (over 90%) yet the authors claim this immigration occurred at the ports, and areas with high Jewish immigration where they took on no agricultural jobs (since the Egyptians workers didn't own any land), which makes no sense given that over 90% of the population were farmers.

please find a better source to make a claim about demographics, this source provides weak anecdotes and arrest numbers from no actual source (as stated in the an "estimate" without giving the source of that estimate). If you can find any sort of census please cite it, if you cant then this sentence is being removed.

[4] Ash-Shâm (Arabic: اَلـشَّـام) is a region that is bordered by the Taurus Mountains of Anatolia in the north, the Mediterranean Sea in the west, the Arabian Desert in the south, and Mesopotamia in the east.^[1] It includes the modern countries of Syria and Lebanon, and the land of Palestine.^[2]^[3]

[KillebrewSteiner2014-1] Killebrew, A. E.; Steiner, M. L. (2014). The Oxford Handbook of the Archaeology of the Levant: C. 8000-332 BCE. OUP Oxford. p. 2. ISBN 978-0-19-921297-2. The western coastline and the eastern deserts set the boundaries for the Levant ... The Euphrates and the area around Jebel el-Bishrī mark the eastern boundary of the northern Levant, as does the Syrian Desert beyond the Anti-Lebanon range's eastern hinterland and Mount Hermon. This boundary continues south in the form of the highlands and eastern desert regions of Transjordan.

[Volume_9_1997_page_261-2] Article "AL-SHĀM" by C.E. Bosworth, Encyclopaedia of Islam, Volume 9 (1997), page 261.

[Salibi2003-3] Salibi, K. S. (2003). A House of Many Mansions: The History of Lebanon Reconsidered. I.B.Tauris. pp. 61–62. ISBN 978-1-86064-912-7. To the Arabs, this same territory, which the Romans considered Arabian, formed part of what they called Bilad al-Sham, which was their own name for Syria. From the classical perspective however Syria, including Palestine, formed no more than the western fringes of what was reckoned to be Arabia between the first line of cities and the coast. Since there is no clear dividing line between what are called today the Syrian and Arabian deserts, which actually form one stretch of arid tableland, the classical concept of what actually constituted Syria had more to its credit geographically than the vaguer Arab concept of Syria as Bilad al-Sham. Under the Romans, there was actually a province of Syria, with its capital at Antioch, which carried the name of the territory. Otherwise, down the centuries, Syria like Arabia and Mesopotamia was no more than a geographic expression. In Islamic times, the Arab geographers used the name arabicized as Suriyah, to denote one special region of Bilad al-Sham, which was the middle section of the valley of the Orontes river, in the vicinity of the towns of Homs and Hama. They also noted that it was an old name for the whole of Bilad al-Sham which had gone out of use. As a geographic expression, however, the name Syria survived in its original classical sense in Byzantine and Western European usage, and also in the Syriac literature of some of the Eastern Christian churches, from which it occasionally found its way into Christian Arabic usage. It was only in the nineteenth century that the use of the name was revived in its modern Arabic form, frequently as Suriyya rather than the older Suriyah, to denote the whole of Bilad al-Sham: first of all in the Christian Arabic literature of the period, and under the influence of Western Europe. By the end of that century it had already replaced the name of Bilad al-Sham even in Muslim Arabic usage.

[a]

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[2]

[3]