Talk:Isabella I of Castile

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This article was selected as the article for improvement on 21 February 2022 for a period of one week.

Red flags

If the information and content of this article are of the same standard as the wording of the introduction ("brought down the crime rate" is not a sentence one can use about a 15th century monarch's government - there were no "crime rate" statistics in the 15th century, that is something that can be said about 20th or 21st century American presidents; and "by Catholic church in 1974" without article; etc. etc.) this whole article is in need of serious attention from a scholar.! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.81.74.177 (talk) 08:45, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1 October 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. Interstellarity (talk) 19:34, 4 October 2020 (UTC) Interstellarity (talk) 19:34, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

– Article titles are titled based on their titled in reliable sources. There is hardly a reliable source that uses the current title. I think the last two are primary topics because this queen seems to most influential out of all the queens listed in the two disambiguation pages. Interstellarity (talk) 20:50, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. There are at least two books with "Isabel I of Castile" in the title here and here and one with "Isabella I of Castile" here. Srnec (talk) 22:27, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Greatly reduces recognizability. "Isabella of Castile" you might get away with, but not "Isabella I" alone, which is insufficient. You hardly find her referred to as that. And Queen Isabellas are far too many for you to claim this to be overwhelmingly the primary topic. Not least of which WP:SOVEREIGN guidelines request you do not remove country when there is more than one monarch of that name. Walrasiad (talk) 03:55, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Her name was Isabel, not Isabella. Mztourist (talk) 05:06, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. No evidence of primary topic. Numerous other queens and people from Spain called Isabella/Isabel. DrKay (talk) 08:53, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose this continuing seeming campaign to eliminate the Name # of country style. GoodDay (talk) 13:35, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per opposers. Johnbod (talk) 16:27, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Later Years

the first sentence under the Later Years heading is an incomplete sentence.: "Isabella was given the title of Catholic Monarch by Pope Alexander VI, whose behavior and involvement in matters Isabella did not approve of." 69.61.224.68 (talk) 01:52, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unidiomatic English in a quote about Queen Isabella in the Wikipedia article about her

"She [Queen Isabella] was an endeavored woman ..."

"Endeavored" does not make sense to a native English speaker such as myself. I have never seen the word "endeavored" used in this way, as an adjective attached to a particular noun, & have no idea what the translator meant. I made a brief attempt to follow the link to the orginal source of the quote, but found only an Indonesian website extolling the efficacy of a particular mantra for gamblers, so I decided it would easier just to leave a message about the problem, in the hope that someone familiar with the original language, presumably Spanish, & a better command of the English language, might retranslate the passage correctly. 2603:8001:103D:1FB5:7C4C:CED0:8CD3:4D60 (talk) 11:14, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just cut - I suspect it means "driven" or "hard-working" but whatever. Johnbod (talk) 17:05, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 29 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Consensus against moving after 1 month of discussion (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 17:15, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Isabella I of Castile → Isabella I – This article is receiving many more pageviews than the queen of Jerusalem. Векочел (talk) 22:10, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Religion, WikiProject Saints, WikiProject Spain, WikiProject Middle Ages, WikiProject Women's History, WikiProject Catholicism, WikiProject Royalty and Nobility, WikiProject Kingdom of Naples, and WikiProject Women in Religion have been notified of this discussion. Векочел (talk) 13:10, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose At least in theory there is also Isabella of Majorca. Johnbod (talk) 22:45, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Isabella II is treated as the primary topic against Isabella II of Jerusalem. Isabella I is far better known than the second queen by that name. I don't think Isabella of Majorca should be a concern unless a numeral is frequently used with her name, but even then Isabella I has far more long-term significance. estar8806 (talk) ★ 02:08, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. It is very valuable/clarifying to name her inherited kingdom in her title, as it is in her husband's. Also, "Isabella I" is not unambiguous (see Isabella I of Jerusalem), so there is benefit in a fuller title that alerts the reader to whose article they are at and, indeed, alerts them to the potential ambiguity/lack of clarity. Srnec (talk) 03:18, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:SOVEREIGN, as the clear primary topic and existing primary redirect since 2004. Rosbif73 (talk) 08:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:SOVEREIGN which clearly requires disambiguation from other Isabella I. Also, per WP:COMMONNAME. She is better known as "Queen Isabella" or "Isabella the Catholic". No indication that the proposed title refers to a monarch of any kind. Walrasiad (talk) 15:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Isabella I" is more common than "Isabella the Catholic" in ngram usage [1] ("Queen Isabella" is obviously ambiguous). And how is there any less indication in the proposed title that the article is about a monarch? estar8806 (talk) ★ 21:11, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, your terms include spurious hits like Isabella I of Jerusalem, Isabella on page 1 in an index, fragments of the phrase "Isabella I say", the children's book "Isabella I Love You", etc. "Queen Isabella", or "Isabella the Catholic", or "Isabella of Spain", are far more popular names. Who this "Isabella I" is largely a mystery. Quite unrecognizable. Walrasiad (talk) 00:47, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Best to make it as easy as possible for readers to know immediately, which country she reigned over. GoodDay (talk) 22:37, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - As shown by this graph, the Castillian queen is the clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. UmbrellaTheLeef (talk) 20:17, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per the reasons given by User:GoodDay. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 13:12, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose due to the variety of disambiguating terms used with her name off Wikipedia. "Isabella I" is almost never used in isolation. ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:21, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Per Snerc and Walrasiad.

Raulois (talk) 15:39, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Isabella/Isabel

This Queen's name was Isabel, NOT Isabella. English speakers came to refer to her as Isabella because she was known, in Spanish, as "Isabel la Católica", Isabel the Catholic. English speakers conflated "Isabel" and "la" to create the name Isabella, which is incorrect. I wish her correct name, Isabel, would be used universally, rather than this mistakenly devised name, Isabella. Ldyk55 (talk) 15:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we are in good company - the Italian, German, Dutch, Polish etc wps all use a "-la" ending. What was her name in Latin, I wonder? But some people like to blame the English for everything. Johnbod (talk) 15:57, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Umm, no, her being known as Isabella in English has nothing to do with "la Católica". Surtsicna (talk) 17:13, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a folk etymology if I ever heard it - Isabella did not derive from "Isabel La [catolica]" - that's such a ridiculous idea, it makes me laugh. The fact of the matter is that Isabella is the common version of the name otherwise known as Isabel/Elizabeth/Isobel/Isabelle/etc. See Isabella of Portugal, Isabella of Bourbon, and the myriad of others. I wish we all called Isabels as Isabel, but if their WP:CommonName is Isabella, then so be it. But no need to invent ludicrious origins of a well-documented name that has existed before the Catholic Queen. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 18:58, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And funnily enough, "Isabel" is English too, arguably more than Isabella. All the native English noblewomen are commonly called Isabel (e.g. Isabel Neville, Duchess of Clarence; Isabel de Clare, 4th Countess of Pembroke; Isabel of Beaumont, Isabel le Despenser, Countess of Arundel; Isabel de Warenne, Countess of Surrey; etc) while the foreigners (including Isabella of France) traditionally get Latinized. Surtsicna (talk) 19:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]