Talk:Iron Man 2/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Correct Character Names

This has been edited several times, but the character listings on this movie are not complete. Black Widow should be listed as such, seeing as Scarlet Johannson was indeed casted as Natasha Romanoff / Black Widow for the movie, in multiple press conferences. . Her undercover name, Natalie Rushman should alternatively be listed in the description as opposed to the character name. It is revealed within the movie that the name she used to begin with what a guise in order to spy on Tony Stark. Along with this issue, shouldn't James "Rhodey" Rhodes' character also list the 'War Machine' mantle as well? The War Machine armor is referenced within the film, and was marketed as such; as well as the declared so by the director of the film on multiple occasions - specifically at Comic-Con. Other issues include the lack of Mickey Rourke's character alias being absent from the listing, even though the director, and actor both referenced him as 'Whiplash' leading up to the film's release. These are the inconsistencies on Wikipedia that create confusion. I say they aught to be fixed. - Burningblue52 (talk) 01:16, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Not pertaining exclusively to this but to any page in general, you should keep in mind that we only list names that the characters are called in the specific film that the article is about. In the past, you have tried to add names to characters in film articles that they are only called in the comics or in other films. There is a clear difference between the comic version of a character and the film version. Just because a character is called something in the comics does NOT mean that they are called that in the films.

For example, Mendel Stromm might be a supervillain called the Robot Master in the comics, but he is never called that in Spider-Man (2002 film), so we are not about to call him that. Another example is that Wolverine might be called James Howlett in X-Men Origins: Wolverine, but he is never called that in X-Men: The Last Stand, therefore we will not call him that in that article. DarkKnight2149 18:56, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Your points are valid, but when Rhodey is called 'War Machine' in the movie, by Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man ("You wanna be the War Machine?....") that completely contradicts what you are getting at. War Machine is the name of the armor. The marketing for the movie itself also referenced the character as such, as well as the director of the film. In regards to Scarlet Johannson's character her undercover name really wasn't used very much in the film at all, and yet it is listed as her name. Taking that into account, the director as well as press-releases confirming her casting as 'Black Widow' this should be added as well. In various interviews with the press she talks about why she signed on to play 'Black Widow'. It even has a quote of her saying so right within the paragraph of character description. This isn't like the previous X-Men edits I did that you are referencing. I have solid sources referenced for all of this listed below.

Rourke also calls his own character 'Whiplash' in interviews... By keeping these edits un-adjusted, it makes Wikipedia inconsistent, and actually confusing to the general populous who may come to the page to learn more about the movie. Your second example of Mendel Stromm in Spider-Man is irrelevant because he never becomes such in the films. Scarlet Johannson plays Black Widow in Iron Man 2. Cheadle plays War Machine. Rourke plays Whiplash. When there are solid references, I don't see the debate. Burningblue52 14:52, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

You are correct that Stromm never became Robot Master in those films, but you'll be surprised how many editors will attempt to make that sort of edit anyway. As for this, if the characters are called that in the film, interviews and sometimes the promotional materials, then I don't see why it can't be included. You'll have to ask the people that keep removing it. Consensus tends to vary from article to article.

I will say this though: casually making a reference to a character's identity ("so you want to be a war machine?") isn't the same thing as a character assuming the said identity. This same principle applies to The Dark Knight related articles, where I keep having to remove instances where editors call Harvey Dent "Two-Face" simply because the film casually mentions that some people call him that as an insult. DarkKnight2149 18:03, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Both of these characters are not called "War Machine" or "Whiplash" in the film. Having the actors/director call the characters that in interviews is a bit irrelevant, only confirming that they are indeed the comic characters War Machine and Whiplash (comics)#Anton Vanko. Nothing is inconsistent with this formatting, as we are labeling as they are called in the film. Someone watching the film, and seeing the name 'Whiplash' might become confused (however unlikely), because that is never said in the film. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:52, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

It's been a while since I've seen the film but I also don't recall them being named in the film. I think we both agree that the casual "So you want to be a war machine?" doesn't count. If memory serves me, they were named in the novelisation, but novelisations have a habit of contradicting the films that they are based on. DarkKnight2149 21:47, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

References

Once again, I edited this to be correct because not only has the directors and actors stated their name as such -- specifically on the Iron Man 2 back cover, Rourke's character is named Whiplash! Look at your own copy of the film, and you'll see it. Not only did the director and actors confirm the roles that they were cast in; but a lot of marketing went into the films in order to establish that the characters were War Machine, Black Widow, Whiplash, and Iron Monger (in Iron Man). To continuously delete my edits, with valid numerous references is deconstructive and unnecessary. Burningblue52 (talk) 16:59, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Well those actors aren't credited as those characters, beyond the fact that they aren't called that in the film (as we keep telling you). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:20, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

User:Burningblue52 you completely missed a certain word that changes everything. In the movie it clearly says "So you wanna be "THE" war machine". Not "So you wanna be "a" war machine". Big difference there buddy. And that itself proves the armor is infact referenced specifically as the "War Machine".----User:TwoNyce 22:37, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

^This comment is also pretty revealing. What is the purpose in reverting edits now? Take a look at the references I just gave. Official images of official Hot Toys' renderings of the characters, with their specific character names right on them. How can that be denide?! The characters are who they were in the comics, whether editors seem to like that or not.--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 08:05, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

If I may, Pietro Maximoff and Wanda Maximoff (played by Aaron Taylor-Johnson and Elizabeth Olsen in Avengers: Age of Ultron) are known as Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in the comics. They are never referred to those names in the actual movie, only nods to the names ("that little witch" by Tony Stark and "that quick little bastard" by Clint Barton). However, due to them being marketed as those names in trailers, toys, TV Spots, websites and various merchandise, Wikipedia is willing to let that one slide. Yes, while the end credits have them listed as "Aaron Taylor-Johnson as Pietro Maximoff / Quicksilver and Elizabeth Olsen as Wanda Maximoff / Scarlet Witch", they technically aren't called that in the actual movie. Like 2015's Fant4stic. Never called those names from the comics, (Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, Thing, Doctor Doom) those last three only being jokes and nods to the comics. So, it shouldn't matter if they're not called that in the actual movie, we know they're called that in the comics, and don't give me that whole "this isn't the comics" stuff. We know this isn't the comics, it's based off the comics. It's Marvel, for crying out loud. Spider-Man2017 (talk) 11:02, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

There's a difference between only being called something in the marketing and actually being credited as such in the film. DarkKnight2149 20:44, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

^ This is a great point. There are plenty of movies where the character are not 'called' their alias in the film. Besides that fact, these movies were the earliest stages of the MCU; my point being they hadn't gotten into the routine of what they were officially going to do (future film's directly naming villains). With all the references included previous, shouldn't these be constructive edits?--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 08:05, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Recently discovered this argument, and with the citings of the director, and actors calling themselves these characters - why the debate? If I recall correctly - even the official action figures for the character mentions that he is Whiplash. Regardless of the fact that his name is not spoken, he is the Marvel Cinematic Universe version of Whiplash. See figurine official name here and here for Whiplash; here for Iron Monger (for Iron Man); here for War Machine and here for Black Widow - both of whom are in Iron Man 2. The comment made previously by an editor about Tony saying "you wanna be the War Machine" -- without it being spoonfed to the viewer, I think it's common knowledge that he was referencing the armor - especially given the fact that the character has made further appearances in the MCU with that name. Given all the valid and reliably sourced references, what's the hold up on not having the character's aliases listed?--DisneyMetalhead (talk) 08:05, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

The cast list is meant to identify characters that appear onscreen, not in merchandise or marketing materials. Think of it as a playbill. If the character is not referred to by the name in the film, then it wouldn't help readers match the actor to the role. In other words, it's a superfluous detail and quite fannish. That's not to say that, we can't refer to the character by those names elsewhere in the article.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 09:27, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

I for one disagree. When the characters are promoted and marketed and OFFICIALLY called by their aliases by those creating the film - how much better of a reference do we need? There's nothing 'fannish' about being accurate. Also what's with having Black Widow's name as Natalie Rushman....the movie reveals that's not her real name, but her cover name while undercover working for Stark.--50.232.205.246 (talk) 16:18, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

"Accurate" would be to not have the names since they are not included in the film. It's fannish because you are using knowledge outside of the plot to make this identification. Put it this way, if you had no other knowledge then what was shown onscreen then you'd still have no idea who Black Widow is.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 16:46, 2 February 2017 (UTC)