Talk:Iris Origo

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Women writers Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Italy Low‑importance

	Italy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Italy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Italy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ItalyWikipedia:WikiProject ItalyTemplate:WikiProject ItalyItaly articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

England Low‑importance

	England portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Honorary DBE

'Honorary' is not normally used in postnominals - the lack of a prefix title is usually sufficient when postnominals are used at all (many countries don't allow honorary postnominals for crown honours). If it absolutely must be used (and this is inconsistent with usage elsewhere on Wikipedia), DBE(hon) would be used (following the conventions also used for honorary doctrates, etc and for distinguishing the military and civilian divisions of certain orders). Cheers, AusTerrapin (talk) 16:23, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unless Origo was a British citizen, I don't think it's correct to refer to "Dame Iris Origo", any more than one would refer to "Sir Casper Weinberger". Any views? 45ossington (talk) 08:05, 6 February 2012 (UTC) I am amending, in accordance with [1]. 45ossington (talk) 08:26, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is all nonsense, and the proffered ref is invalid. Dame Iris was born in Gloucestershire, England, though her family moved her overseas at an early age. She cannot be described as "Anglo-Irish" because (unlike her maternal forebears) she never lived in Ireland. The "honorary DBE" was and is a fiction. According to the [2] Oxford DNB], Origo "was appointed DBE for services to British cultural interests in Italy and to Anglo-Italian relations." I am restoring her legitimate and deserved title. Bjenks (talk) 08:02, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the edit (though you might bear in mind when phrasing your comments that Wikipedia editors are generally on the same side and trying to do their best).45ossington (talk) 10:35, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think your point about foreigners being unable to style themselves "Sir" or "Dame" is a useful one, if not applicable here.Bmcln1 (talk) 12:19, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Marchesa

Do we have a reliable reference for the subject being a marchesa and especially "Marchesa of Val d'Orcia." I know this title is included in the name of her biography, but is that a nickname given her by the local people perhaps? Firstly, her husband was the illigitimate son of a marchese; secondly, Iris and her husband bought their Val d'Orcia esate in the 1920s, so it was not an ancestral property which might have been associated with a family title, and thirdly titles were abolished after the World War II, and were usually incorporated into the family surname for example the Niccolini family held the title Marchese di Camugliano, but now have the surname Niccolini di Camugliano - so therefore Iris should have the surname "Origo di Val d'Orcia" - were she the formerly Marchesa of Val d'Orcia. I have read the biography Iris Origo, Marchesa of Val d'Orcia, and no explantion is given. Perhaps the principal editors of this page, User:45ossington and User:Bjenks, know the answer. Giano (talk) 14:23, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't; it's an interesting question. Might Antonio have been the beneficiary of some formal process of legitimization? Unless that can be established, I rather agree that referring to Dame Iris as a Marchioness is doubtful. However, having already got into trouble once (above) for an unwarranted downgrade of Dame Iris's titles, I am reluctant to involve myself too closely in a ceremony of formal degradation! 45ossington (talk) 15:39, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you 45ossington; I have been doing some research over the last couple of hours, and it seems her husband was calling himself Marchese Origo at the time of their wedding, and Iris herself permitted her son to be referred to as Marchese Gian Origo (which isn't strictly correct, but we'll let it pass) in a newspaper report of a London Society wedding, so it seems likely that she did use the title, but without a landed appendix. In fact Marchese Origo appears to be a Roman title, rather than a Florentine/Tuscan one. Up until the end of World war II, Italian titles could only pass down to the legitimate eldest son, exceptions could be made, but only by petitioning the King, and then only if it was an already recognized title. Without a Libro d'Oro to hand, it's hard to know the truth; but I strongly doubt she was the Marchesa of Val d'Orcia. Giano (talk) 16:09, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]