Talk:Iranian assassination plot of ASMLA leadership in Denmark

This article was nominated for deletion on 26 November 2018. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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Title change

The title hardly describes the incident. Icewhiz proposed a title change to "Iranian assassination plot of ASMLA leadership in Denmark". I would opt for "2018 Iranian assassination plot in Denmark", or something along those lines. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 12:48, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support either - both are good. The current title was mayhe ok when this was breaking newsm but is no longer descriptive.Icewhiz (talk) 15:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 25 January 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus on the move. (closed by non-admin page mover) B dash (talk) 13:05, 1 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Iranian assassination plot of ASMLA leadership in Denmark → Alleged Iranian assassination plot of ASMLA leadership in Denmark – The subject is essentially regarding a controversy over an incident. Accusations and denials are exchanged and an allegation is being discussed. That said the current title is just misleading, and implies that that Wiki is verifying there was really a plot. Hence I think it should be changed into a more accurate and neutral one, such as what I suggested. There are plenty of similar examples:

Alleged British use of chemical weapons in Mesopotamia in 1920
Alleged war crimes during the final stages of the Sri Lankan Civil War
Alleged Saudi role in September 11 attacks (Note that many sources and analysts believe that Saudi Arabia was involved in the incident, though "alleged" is used. See this discussion.)
Alleged Libyan financing in the 2007 French presidential election
Alleged plot to kidnap Pope Pius XII
Alleged plot against Ratu Iloilo, 2000
Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda link allegations

There are of course more examples. So, the suggested title is just consistent "with the pattern of similar articles' titles." Mhhossein ^talk 08:47, 25 January 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. samee converse 15:10, 1 February 2019 (UTC)--Relisting. Dekimasuよ! 01:41, 10 February 2019 (UTC)--Relisting. B dash (talk) 00:18, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Point of grammar, should it be Iranian assassination plot against ASMLA leadership in Denmark? As for the "alleged" this doesn't look very alleged, any more than 2011 Iran assassination plot but then no convictions have been made yet. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:44, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Then see 2011 alleged Iran assassination plot. It was moved without building consensus. --Mhhossein ^talk 07:31, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support: RS including NYT, the guardian and CNN supports the suggestion and described it as alleged assassination plot.Saff V. (talk) 14:09, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support anything that would include "Allege" per the mentioned examples. Title right now is misleading. Kraose (talk) 16:13, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support as per Kraose and User:Saff V., without “Alleged” in namespace is misleading. Sheldybett (talk) 11:58, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - while breaking news coverage in late October / early November used alleged, later coverage (following investigation and diplomatic fallout) has not - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/world/europe/iran-eu-sanctions.html NYT 8 Jan], Telegraph 8 Jan, Reuters 8 Jan, Bloomberg 8 Jan. Icewhiz (talk) 13:49, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - per Icewhiz's points. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 20:42, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: per Icewhiz. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:04, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Reopening and relisting per request at User talk:Dekimasu#Your closure. Dekimasuよ! 01:41, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The are 3 opposes the last two being the copy of Icewhiz's comment. I checked all the sources Icewhiz grounded his argument on. NY times does not say it was an Iranian plot rather it says "The European Union penalized Iran on Tuesday over allegations that the country’s intelligence service orchestrated a series of assassination plots in Europe," and there's no sentence showing NYTimes is supporting the title. The Telegraph article begins with "The Dutch government has accused Iran of..." and again claims and allegations are reported and there's no text saying the assassination plot was made by Iran. Same is true for for the the Reuters saying "Iran has denied any involvement in the alleged plots..." and "as the Netherlands accused Iran of two killings on its soil ...". I think sources were misinterpreted to reach the conclusion that the current title fits and it's not an allegation, while all the sources mentioned by users are cautious and use terms like "alleged", "claimed", "accused" and etc. So, the only argument opposing the proposal so far is based on a misunderstanding/misinterpretation of the sources. --Mhhossein ^talk 04:38, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
NYT title - "E.U. Imposes Sanctions on Iran Over Assassination Plots", Telegraph title - "Iran hired criminals to assassinate dissidents in the Netherlands, Dutch government claims", Reuters title - "In shift, EU sanctions Iran over planned Europe attacks". As we are discussion our title, matching the title used by WP:NEWSORGs (which at present, are the sole source given this is a recent plot) - is reasonable. Icewhiz (talk) 08:45, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

NYT title says "...Assassination Plots"! While the article deals with the accusations with respect to the recent incident, it never says it was an Iranian plot. As for the Reuters, you your self are quoting the source as saying it's a "claim" by the dutch government. So, none of your sources say it was did by Iran. --Mhhossein ^talk 04:58, 14 February 2019 (UTC) [reply]

Seeing that we're continuing this RM - even newer sources - "The EU on Tuesday approved sanctions against an Iranian ministry and two Iranian nationals for their involvement in thwarted assassination attempts in France and Denmark.". Deutsche Welle, 8 Feb 2019. Icewhiz (talk) 08:54, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

NY times best described the story by saying: "The European Union penalized Iran on Tuesday over allegations that the country’s intelligence service orchestrated a series of assassination plots in Europe." That DW source is not something to ground a WP article title on. --Mhhossein ^talk 05:11, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

comment: I was surprised by the result of the close. More, but not all, sources which use "alleged" and hence show the current title should be changed. Washingotn Post [1] says "... Iran's alleged role in the Danish assassination plot last year resulted in ...". The independent says ".. along with alleged plots by regime operatives against Iranian Arab exiles in the Netherlands and Denmark, prompted EU sanctions ." See the title of this source: " Denmark calls for fresh EU sanctions on Iran after alleged assassination plot foiled."Saff V. (talk) 11:03, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the sources. Yes, even fresh sources don't say it as a fact. The least thing is to insert "alleged" into the title. --Mhhossein ^talk 19:33, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.