Talk:International Loadstar/Archive 1

History of Loadstars

To get the ball going on discussion of this article, I am going to point out the technical specifications of the Loadstar and its 16-year run.

Gasoline engine models included the 1600, 1700 and 1800. Technically, models ending with a "3" (i.e. 1803 and 1853) indicated school bus chassis (this practice continued into the S-series' entire run).

Diesel models, the majority of which were first introduced in January 1966, included the 1750 and the 1850. Initially, these used either the DV-462 (dropped after 1971) or the DV-550 V8 engines, which were based on (but not outright conversions of) the V-461 and the V-549 gas engines respectively. The Detroit Diesel 6V-53N was first used on the 1890D model when introduced in 1964; it continued to be sold up to 1976. The Cat 1160 (later 3208) appeared in the Loadstar around 1973 as an alternative to the DV-550B, which itself was known as the D-150/170/190 after 1975. The D-170 was the base engine on many diesel Loadstars (the D-150 was the base engine for the Loadstar 1750). In 1976 the DT-466 turbocharged six-cylinder diesel engine appeared for use in the 1850 series. WikiPro1981X (talk) 07:44, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is "Binder" a model?

Is there any reference to there being an actual model named "Binder"? "Binder", short for "Cornbinder" was a common nickname for International trucks from at least the '50's to the '70's. Could this nickname have been confused with an actual model? I've deleted it, if someone can show a real use, I stand corrected, please put it back.ReTeam (talk) 18:53, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is a real model, so I put in some information. I know there's not a lot of information out there on them. The model plate on the hood said "Binder". So did the serial number plate. I believe it is the same as a model 1600. I heard they were made between 1974 and 1978. These trucks, as well as other internation harvester trucks, were nicknamed "cornbinders" sometimes, but they made a model of Loadstar called a "Binder". We had one years ago on the farm. User: Everysubjectman

I believe you. I think the marketing department could use a common nickname for a vehicle. I think the nickname is probably used more by farmers and a 1600 would make sense as a farm vehicle. Around here, at least, they seem to care more about volume than weight. Sammy D III (talk) 16:20, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

New Loadstar?

There's no information on this truck on their corporate website and pretty much everything that can be found on it by googling it matches the text of this section word for word.

Two things I do want to bring up: these are two fundamentally different vehicles whose only thing in common is a name, which makes a fairly decent case for making a separate article. On the other hand, it would help if it was proven if these were actually ever produced... --SteveCof00 (talk) 10:55, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Try http://media.navistar.com/index.php?s=43&item=557. In the US these cab styles are usually called “Forward Control” or “Low Entry”, our “COE”s were a different deal from Europe’s. Sammy D III (talk) 13:46, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There doesn't seem to be any, other than the demos, that I can find. They introduced it, Alabama is ready to build them, then not a word. I don't know how to go back to an old version of Navistar's page to see if they were shown before. EZ Pack sort of disappears, too.

This guy Hebe [1], who pushed the idea, got the bum's rush in winter 2012, maybe that doomed it. His track record looks pretty poor, Navistar may be better off without him and his baby.

I could not find any sales per model numbers. It would have to be 2013, anyway, they can't have even added those up yet.

I suspect you have discovered a "ghost truck".Sammy D III (talk) 21:44, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

27 Feb 14

The "second generation" appears to be a prototype which did not go into production. With no connection other than name, it's gone.

Powertrain is in infobox, not enough text for it's own section? 4-speed Allison autos were available, anyone know any other autos?

Sections and layout aren't right, maybe someone will fix them.

Refs are pretty lame. Sammy D III (talk) 20:21, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Refs aren't lame any more: http:// wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/ref/collection/ihc/id/36235/|title=International Truck Specifications - Loadstar|publisher=Wisconson Historical Society|date=2013|accessdate=27 Feb 2014. Sammy D III (talk) 21:43, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"International" brand

Trucks built by "International Harvester Company" (and "Navistar") are branded "International". This is true from at least 1914, the name may have been in use by 1908. "A History of International Trucks (PDF copy of this article)". International Harvester Company, Chicago, Illinois. April 25, 1961. Retrieved September 19, 2017. explains the brand name in the first paragraph of the second page. Seventy-five years of "International Harvester Company" brochures for "International" trucks are here: [2]

There is a discussion about all International/International Harvester brands at " "Are International Harvester trucks branded "International"?. Thank you. Sammy D III (talk) 15:45, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trucks which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 03:15, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In the real world these trucks are named "International® Loadstar®" without the word "Harvester"

The International Harvester Company manufactured and sold these trucks as brand "International®" model " Loadstar ®" in sales brochures between 1962 and 1972.

International Harvester Co. has told the public that they have sold trucks under the "International" name since 1914 in 1947 (p. 2), 1961 (p. 2), and 1976 (pp. 14-15, 18-26). An editor might think that one of the world's largest truck manufacturers would know the registered trademark brand name that they sell those trucks under. International Harvester Co. should at the very least be a source for WP:OFFICIALNAMES. Probably WP:COMMONNAME too, most automobile and truck articles use the vehicle's official name.

This box has published sources for the WP:COMMONNAME being "International":

Extended content

Burness, Tad (1985). American Truck & Bus Spotter's Guide 1920-1985. Motorbooks International. pp. 215–250. ISBN 0-87938-198-1. has "IHC Chicago" under the section title. Page 226 and 229 label the hood ornament logos as "IH". Everything else is "International", "International Trucks", or "International Motor trucks".

Crismon, Fred W. (2001). International Trucks: 100 Years 1907-2007. Crestline. ISBN 978-0970056726.

Davies, Peter J. (2000). The World Encyclopedia of Trucks. Lorenz Books. pp. 401–403. ISBN 0-7548-0518-2. This sources all trucks after 1914 being named "International".

Foster, Patrick (2015). International Harvester Trucks, The Complete History. Motorbooks. ISBN 978-0-7603-4860-4. This sources all trucks after 1914 being named "International".

Mroz, Albert (1996). The Illustrated Encyclopedia of American Trucks and Commercial Vehicles. Krause. pp. 206–212. ISBN 0-87341368-7. This sources all trucks after 1914 being named "International".

Wood, Donald F. (1998). American Buses. MBI Publishing. pp. 23, 41, 42, 58, 65, 77, 96, 101, 116, 123, 127, 130. ISBN 0-7603-0432-7. uses "International" or "International chassis". This only sources the common use of the name "International".

Motor's Truck and Diesel Repair Manual (26 ed.). Motor. 1973. ISBN 0-910992-16-9. index has "International" (915-953) and "International Diesel Engines" (1224-1249). The word "Harvester is never used in the index or either section. Page 916 has specifications for 1964-1971 Loadstars.

Here is a simple search: This link[3] is to a run-of-the mill commercial truck sales site. There are plenty of them, choose any that sells used trucks. Search "Select a make" for "International". What do professionals who buy and sell trucks call them?

This article was created with a made-up (probably accidently) name with no source. As of today there is still no WP:RELIABLE source for the word "Harvester" in the name.

Right now Wikipedia is saying that "International Harvester Loadstar" is both the WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OFFICIALNAMES for these trucks when WP:RELIABLE show that neither is true. A Wikipedia-specific made-up name is presented as a common fact.

Some editors (@Amakuru, BarnCas, DanTD, Steve Lux, Jr., and SteveCof00:) do not believe that the sources above are WP:RELIABLE for WP:COMMONNAME and/or WP:OFFICIALNAMES and have opposed any name-changes. All have been shown most of these sources.

"Harvester" it is. Sammy D III (talk) 00:51, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]