Talk:Influence of French on English

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“Excuse my French”

This article states what I already understand: “Some words borrowed in the 19th and 20th centuries (such as chic) still considered foreign words, French words, are generally used by educated English people or by the press and other media and are seen as part of a distinguished language.”

I’m very sure that the phrase “excuse my French”, used by English speakers immediately after, or before, saying a vulgar word, is an irony that acknowledges French as the ultimate “elegant” language. Strangely enough, I’ve only found references in internet about “excuse or pardon my French” as an expression coming from the wars an rivalries between England and France, directly identifying vulgar words with “French”, referring to a tradition apologising for using French in society and not as an irony. This is puzzling me. I’m convinced that “excuse my French” is a humorous irony. I think that adding a paragraph about this would be a good thing for this great article, but I’d like to know the opinion of the author and others about this. Leonardo Ortega Nunez (talk) 17:26, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's both, first, taken as an elegant language, and later, said as an irony. Everyone says it as an irony nowadays. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.91.51.235 (talk) 16:10, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Google Books gives several instances of the phrase in written works from the 19th century. In each case, the writer has actually used a French word or phrase—euphemistically, in a couple of cases—so no irony was involved.

Two Lives: Or, To Seem and to be, Maria Jane McIntosh, 1847: "The American ladies are charming, very charming, mais un peu prudes. Pardon my French: I could not be so bold as to say it in English."[1]
Randolph: A Novel, John Neal, 1823: "I do not believe that I am yet "une fille perdue!". Pardon my French."[2]
Firemen's Magazine, volume 6, letter to the editor, 1882: "... we were given an entertainment recently in Seymour which was pronounced recherche (pardon my French) by all who participated."[3]
My Novel, Edward Bulwer-Lytton, 1853: "Nay, I think not, Mother. It is he to whom we owe all,—'Haec otia fecit.' Pardon my Latin; it is Lord L’Estrange."[4] (The text is set in two columns, with a line beginning with "French" directly opposite a line ending "pardon my", so the search engine indexer mistakenly read it as a consecutive phrase. But the fortune here is that what actually followed "pardon my" was also a language.)

To try to make this on-topic (talk pages are only for discussing proposals to improve their articles) I'm not sure that commentary on the status of French as seen by modern English speakers falls into the article's scope, unless sources reveal that this is a continuous condition dating from the centuries when French vocabulary was flowing into English. Well, maybe there'd be other grounds—, the first two examples I gave, for example, suggest that French words could have flowed into English for euphemistic purposes, with "pardon my French" being indicative of the process. Just speculating. Largoplazo (talk) 11:51, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Latin script or several scripts?

what was the influence of the conquerors on the script used in England? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.91.51.235 (talk) 16:09, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

French influence on English language

Please help me with my assignment 2409:4061:4E99:9E45:1997:9D1E:5C6C:1C0 (talk) 14:50, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, this talk page is solely for the purpose of discussing improvements to the article. You may be able to get assistance at the Wikipedia:Reference Desk. Largoplazo (talk) 15:20, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Diphthong /ui/

I suggest adding some examplary words for this one. JMGN (talk) 16:33, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Where? Largoplazo (talk) 17:32, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In the article, where that phrase appears JMGN (talk) 17:27, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Where what phrase appears? It's clear you want something and it has to do with the diphthong /ui/, but beyond that you've given no clue as to what text you would like to have appear and where you think it would be relevant to have that text. As far as I can see, /ui/ is mentioned in one place, and there's no context for displaying words that exemplify the (rather vague!) point that's being made there. Largoplazo (talk) 14:41, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The influence of French on English pronunciation is generally held to have been fairly minor, but a few examples have been cited:

The use of the diphthongs /ui/ and /oi/ JMGN (talk) 19:28, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Original research since day one

The lead has unique information that is not present in the body of the article, and is unsourced. Typical is the lead sentence, which now (rev. 1200757529) reads:

The influence of French on English pertains mainly to its lexicon but also to its syntax, grammar, orthography, and pronunciation.

This has been present (in slightly altered form) since the original version of the article, and it's original research, and it's rubbish. The influence of French on English grammar and syntax is nada; zip; zilch; goose egg; squat; bugger-all; bupkis; diddly-squat. It's painful to note that this has been there for five years. There's a reason we have a verifiability policy, and given that the lead sentence has so flagrantly violated it for half a decade, it makes me wonder about the rest of the article. We might have to go over the whole thing with a fine-tooth comb. Mathglot (talk) 07:10, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited the WP:LEADSENTENCE to remove the glaring misinformation, and also made a few other tweaks of lesser importance. I still think we should go through the whole article, and determine what is properly sourced, and what is pure invention. I don't entirely blame the original, translating editor, as fr-wiki has lax standards of verifiability compared to en-wiki, and the mistakes there were just carried over. Nevertheless, we are where we are, and now its our article, and we need to makes sure it is compliant with standards here. Mathglot (talk) 09:14, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]