Talk:Iloilo International Airport

Typeface unclear how to spell Iloilo

Wikipedia must change to a typeface that distinguishes between capital I and lower-case L (l). This stupid typeface leaves it unclear whether this airport is IIoilo, lloilo, or Iloilo. Those 3 all look the same, though those are 3 different spellings. You must look in edit mode to see the differences, where a different typeface is used that does so distinguish. Spelled all in capitals those 3 are IIOILO, LLOILO, AND ILOILO. Because this does not appear to be English, I must leave open the possibility that the word begins with 2 capital letters. Who's going to change that typeface?--it's way beyond my capability. Korky Day (talk) 21:50, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Try the village pump for these types of complaints. However, with the current typeface, it is up to the user to properly discern and spell the name correctly, which (in capital letters to distinguish) is ILOILO. --Sky Harbor 14:15, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Wikipedia does not specify any preferred font for most of the text. It just follows the browser's default, which, basing on your problem, is most probably Arial on your computer. I have set mine to Verdana, which has serifs on the "I" (the 9th letter) so I have no problem. --seav 05:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Grammar tenses check

Some of the tenses of the paragraphs, especially those that relate to planning and construction still use the simple present or present progressive or simple future tenses when these should be simple past, past perfect, or past progressive tenses. --seav (talk) 02:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll try finishing the corrections in time for FA status. But I still need a picture. --Sky Harbor 02:40, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Iloilo International Airport/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   The last paragraph under "name", concerning the "informal survey" by The News Today strikes me as very unscientific, since they in a non-methodological way have asked only nineteen people their opinion. Why is this survey notable enough to include in the article? Unless it was a proven basis for the naming decision, I would rather see it removed from the article, since the survey itself is not a reliable source.

   The News Today issued the informal survey in response to the naming controversy surrounding the airport project as documented in local and national media. While some of the names are comical, the others, particularly the ones cited in the article, are the names that have earned some consensus among certain sectors of Iloilo society. While I can concede that it isn't scientific, if it deserves to be removed, then I can remove it. --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 14:26, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

   What I react to is that a particular survey—with only 19 respondents—is quoted with full results. Had there been 500 respondents, the results could be called scientific, and it would be worth including. If you don't want to remove the paragraph, you could ambiguate the claim to that surveys showed some support for the chosen name, and some non-support for it. The summarizing of this survey into quantitative results borders original research. Arsenikk ^(talk) 11:19, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

   Done and made more ambiguous. I did leave though the figure on the number of total respondents. --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 07:14, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

   Great :) Arsenikk ^(talk) 09:40, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   On hold until the one concern is dealt with. Otherwise an excellent article. Arsenikk ^(talk) 15:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

   The article is now passed as good. Congratulations! Arsenikk ^(talk) 09:40, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Iloilo International...

According to the new classification of airports by the CAAP (Civial aviation Authority of the Philippines), Iloilo is not classified as an International Airport but a Principal (class 1) airport meaning it does not have facilities for immigration entry. In fact Kalibo is the only airport in the western visayas region that has been classified as International. see http://www.caap.gov.ph/Downloads/ncaapcoa.pdf for further information. Cemby (talk) 17:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

That fact is already mentioned in the article. However, per WP:UCN, the most common name for the airport is "Iloilo International Airport". --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 13:17, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

The airport now handles direct flights between Iloilo and Singapore/Hong Kong Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 03:57, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

City-served

This airport ONLY serves ILOILO CITY. PASSI CITY is not served by this airport based on how the airlines (PAL, Cebu Pacific, etc.) market/label this airport. As they market it as ILOILO CITY, the said city is the major city associated by this airport. You do not hear airlines say "Fly to Passi City!". Furthermore, Passi City is not a major city as it is only a fourth class city. Unless if a verifiable source is provided that says all these airlines associate this airport with Passi City, please refrain from indicating Passi City as a city-served based on the infobox guidelines. Thank you. pikdig (talk) 17:43, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I have read the guidelines on cities served ... when the airport is located in a town, the town should be placed in the "location" and the cities that it serves are on the "serve" box ... and this is what I'm doing. ... Passi City is to the north of the airport while Iloilo City is to the south of the airport. The airport itself is located about midway between Passi City and Iloilo City, in the town of Cabatuan, Iloilo Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 04:00, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

This source [[1]] states that the Airport serves "The cities being served by this airport are Iloilo City to the south and Passi City to the north. The airport also serves the entire Province of Iloilo." Maybe a better way of saying this is that the Airport serves the Province of Iloilo. I have changed it to the province of Iloilo, it's a compromise that I think everyone can agree covers both things without too much detail. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 05:54, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Allow me to jump in here. While the airport does serve the province of Iloilo (as is the case with a lot of airports in the Philippines, and perhaps even in other areas), Template:Infobox Airport says that the major city served should be put in said syntax. To note: "If the airport is associated with a major city but actually located in a smaller town, list the major city here and the smaller town under location. This is not automatically linked, in order to allow multiple links if needed." The major city here is Iloilo City, not Passi: Passi is around 50 kilometers north of Iloilo City, and is significantly smaller than Iloilo City despite being the "second city" of the province. --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 11:40, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Let me reiterate again, according to the Infobox usage guidelines, this should be a major city that is associated with the airport; hence the usage of Iloilo province does not meet this criteria. Furthermore, Passi City, I believe, is not considered a major city since it is not highly urbanized based on Philippine standards; the article on Passi City indicates that it is a fourth class city only. Furthermore, I would like to contest the validity of iloiloairport.com as a verifiable source; in my opinion, the website design looks questionable as it does not have the usual sections of usual airport websites (ex. flight schedules, contact persons, etc.) pikdig (talk) 12:05, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I can certainly understand the concerns here, I would encourage in this case to use WP:IAR as a compromise as it covers the concern of the other editor. I admit I did have reservations about the reliability of the source myself as evidenced on Tumandokkangcabatuan's page. I think that in this case especially becasue it's not a BLP it should pass but if nec we can open a RFC on this to find a consensus too. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 13:29, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Kudos to Hell in a Bucket for a solomonic compromise. While it removed my addition of Passi City, the overall change to Iloilo Province is just as accurate, or even more accurate. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 12:28, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Welcome back and thank you. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 13:06, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Cabatuan Airport

Why is there a wikipedia page for Mandurriao Airport and none for Cabatuan Airport, when these two were just the same Iloilo Airport that was just transferred from Mandurriao, Iloilo City to Cabatuan, Iloilo?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandurriao_Airport

The old Iloilo Airport at Mandurriao and the new Iloilo International Airport at Cabatuan are both officially named Iloilo Airport. If the wikipedia page of the old Iloilo Airport at Mandurriao is titled after its location and not its official name, then you should as well title this one as Cabatuan International Airport.

As a compromise that accommodates both official name, and location name as exemplified by the Mandurriao Airport, how about retitling this article as "Iloilo International Airport (Cabatuan Airport)"

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 01:54, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

As exemplified by the Mandurriao Airport, it seems that it is also correct to title the airport after its location.

However, I am not replacing Iloilo International Airport as title for this article. Instead, I am just adding Cabatuan Airport next to it.

As in, ILOILO INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT (CABATUAN AIRPORT)

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 12:52, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

The names of articles on Wikipedia are common names per WP:Commonname. For instance, see the Big Dig instead of the Central Artery Tunnel Project, or Bill Clinton instead of William J. Clinton.

The common name for this airport is the Iloilo Airport, secondarily (in my experience) the Santa Barbara airport. I have only heard it referred to as the Cabatuan Airport by those who want Cabatuan to get credit for having the airport. Therefore I do not support your edit to add that into the title, but I am willing to wait for a consensus to develop per WP:Consensus. I would be interested in seeing what citations you have to support the use of the name Cabatuan Airport.

I should also point out that article names follow language -- common name -- not strict logical consistency. What the article about the old airport is named has no impact on the name of this article unless they are so similar as to be easily confused. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 07:48, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

The Airport is in Cabatuan, not in Santa Barbara. Here is the official address (links below)

CAAP Website http://www.caap.gov.ph/web/officesList.htm?init=I

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_in_the_Philippines

When people say Cabatuan Airport, they tell the truth. Those who say otherwise are the ones claiming credit falsely.

Cabatuan does not need to claim credit. The airport address is prima facie evidence already that the airport is in Cabatuan.

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 12:12, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree that most of the airport property including the airport proper is in Cabatuan. Unfortunately, where it is and what people call it are not the same. Wikipedia policy is to use the common name, regardless of how inaccurate the common name is. Ivan the Terrible will always be known as Ivan the Terrible regardless of how inaccurate it is. See WP:Commonname. What evidence is there that it is widely referred to as Cabatuan Airport? --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 06:36, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Whether you call Pres. Clinton as William J. Clinton or Bill Clinton, the reader knows exactly that you are talking about Pres. Clinton. The same is true with Ivan the Terrible. Whether you call him Ivan the Terrible or Ivan IV Vasilyevich, there is no confusion as to who you are talking about.

On the other hand, if you replace Cabatuan Airport with Santa Barbara Airport, you are creating a false connotation or false impression that the airport is located in Santa Barbara. That name is misleading and inaccurate. Wikipedia is in the business of presenting accurate information, not misleading information.

Remember that the airport is an international airport. The whole world is our audience here. Would foreign tourists browsing the CAAP or Wikipedia website list of airports know immediately that the Iloilo Airport with address in Cabatuan is the same airport that you are calling Santa Barbara? On the contrary, they will be confused.

You yourself had admitted that personally you have heard people calling it Cabatuan Airport. But because of your apparent bias, you simply brushed them off as if they are the ones claiming credit for something they don't have. You purposely ignored the fact that the airport is located in Cabatuan.

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 07:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

You said that the common name is used regardless of how inaccurate it is. You're wrong. I will quote the line from the third paragraph of WP:Commonname as follows:

"inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources."

In that context, the use of Santa Barbara Airport is disqualified because it is misleading people to believe that the airport is in Santa Barbara when in reality it is in Cabatuan.

Only the name Cabatuan Airport can withstand the accuracy test.

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 15:47, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

User:Tumandokkangcabatuan please refrain from attacking me personally. I am insulted by accusations of "apparent bias" and of brushing off people and by statements that I have written things that I have never written or that I have positions and beliefs that I do not have. There is no need for such attacks and it makes me feel like I should respond in kind. which is very human but against the culture of Wikipedia and basic human decency and civility.

Let me repeat and clarify one statement since there is some confusion. I said, "I have only heard it referred to as the Cabatuan Airport by those who want Cabatuan to get credit for having the airport," which I still stand by as a true statement but obviously it needs some clarification and expansion. I have never heard anyone refer to the airport as the Cabatuan Airport, alone, without any other clarification or name. They usually always mention either before or after using the phrase "Cabutuan Airport" that it is either the new Iloilo airport or the one called the Santa Barbara airport. It is usually something like "the so-called Santa Barbara airport should really be called the Cabutuan Airport".

Are there any sources that refer to the airport as the Cabatuan Airport? Are links available?

Is anyone suggesting that we rename the article "Santa Barbara Airport"?

The airport is in Santa Barbara as well as Cabatuan and the entrance to the airport property and road is in Santa Barbara. It is therefore both understandable and accurate for people to refer to it as the Santa Barbara airport, meaning it is the airport whose entrance is in Santa Barbara. It is a little like people referring to the Statue of Liberty as being in New York even though it is in New Jersey. I do not think that it is fair to the people who use the term "Santa Barbara Airport" to say that it is inaccurate -- less accurate perhaps, less exact perhaps but not inaccurate. But we are not here to discuss the morality of people using the phrase "Santa Barbara Airport".

I think that all three names are accurate -- there is not only one accurate name -- since the airport property is located in both Cabatuan and Santa Barbara, both in Iloilo, and since it serves Iloilo City, but the three names are not used equally. In my experience, and I think that is reflected roughly in this article, the names are used in descending order of usage -- "Iloilo Airport", "Santa Barbara Airport" and "Cabatuan Airport". --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 12:48, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

The airport is located ENTIRELY IN CABATUAN. No portion of the runway and facilities lies in Santa Barbara. In fact, THE WHOLE AIRPORT COMPOUND LIES IN CABATUAN. You are wrong in saying that the airport is in Santa Barbara. It is therefore inaccurate and misleading to call it Santa Barbara Airport.

Here is the map of the airport site, showing that the entire airport compound is located well within Cabatuan.

http://www.iloiloairport.com

That map jibes with the official address of the airport, that the office is in Brgy. Duyan Duyan, Cabatuan

http://www.caap.gov.ph/web/officesList.htm?init=I

The entrance to the airport is the entrance to the airport compound. This spot is located well within Cabatuan. Prior to this spot are access roads that are also well within Cabatuan. One road goes back out in the direction of the 3rd District, which includes Janiuay, Lambunao, Calinog, etc. A second road goes back out in the direction of Iloilo City. Just because when going to Iloilo City, one passes through Santa Barbara, Pavia and Jaro; that does not make Santa Barbara, Pavia or Jaro an airport site. The name Santa Barbara Airport is therefore not only inaccurate but also misleading because it misleads people into believing that the airport is also in Santa Barbara.

My use of "apparent bias" was a reflection of your comments. You insinuated that common names that are illogical are ok in wikipedia, that common names that are inaccurate are ok in wikipedia, and now a name that is misleading is ok in wikipedia. Frankly, it boggles my mind why somebody would want something illogical, inaccurate and misleading be put in wikipedia. And that is the only way I can make sense out of it. Take note that I used the word "apparent." It means that is how you appear to me. Only you know if you really are.

You posted at the article page that colloquially, you call it Santa Barbara Airport. You can call the airport any name you want, but as far as wikipedia is concerned, inaccurate common names, especially misleading common names, have no place in wikipedia. That's according to the third paragraph of WP:Commonname

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 16:44, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

I still see no evidence offered that the common name of the airport is the Cabatuan Airport and that is what article titles are based on. I see no reason to change this article's title from "Iloilo Airport". I will take up the issue of whether the use of the name "Santa Barbara" should be even mentioned in this article in a separate section below since that is different issue than what this article should be titled. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 17:51, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

I have responded in that new thread

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 18:44, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Readability of Infobox

I find the infobox title not that readable. To make everything more readable and understandable -- especially the "(Cabutuan Airport)" -- I changed the size of the font of "(Cabutuan Airport)". My change was reverted. I prefer the different font size. Is anyone with me? What's the WP:Consensus? --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 12:48, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

The colloquial name "Santa Barbara Airport" should be mentioned in the text

I added in phrase "and colloquially the Santa Barbara Airport after the town of Santa Barbara, Iloilo location of the access road's entrance" and provided a citation. User:Tumandokkangcabatuan deleted that phrase, that cited fact that people call it the Santa Barbara Airport, and his reasoning is above in a section about the article's title. Since including the "Santa Barbara Airport" in the text is a different issue of the article title, I have started a new section. Please see the above section for Tumandokkangcabatuan's reasoning.

I think that it is undeniable that people call it the "Santa Barbara Airport". The U.S. Navy said in a news story "A Philippine Air Force C-130 cargo plane arrived at Iloilo's Santa Barbara airport loaded with food supplies" [2]. The Lonely Planet guide book says "The airport is 15km north of town in Santa Barbara."[3] A book about World War II says "the 40th Recon Troop headed out to seize the Santa Barbara Airport."[4] Finally, more colloquial is a board post that says "the Santa Barbara Airport in Iloilo is 22 kilometers from Iloilo City."[http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1564958&page=117] It is undenialbe that people refer to it as the Santa Barbara Airport. That fact must be mentioned in this article.

Tumandokkangcabatuan says calling it the Santa Barbara airport is "illogical, inaccurate and misleading" and it "boggles" his mind that anyone would want to include such information in Wikipedia. It may be illogical, inaccurate and misleading but humans beings are in fact illogical, inaccurate and misleading and so is human language. And we need to mention common names regardless of their truthfulness because we want this article to be complete. Therefore what it is commonly called (even if it is not THE MOST colloquial name which I think goes to the "Iloilo Airport") needs to be mentioned, if for no other reason that the disabuse readers of this common misconception. In my mind, this commonly used name must be included in this article or else this article would be incomplete.

It is not up to Wikipedia to decide what it should be called. That it is the job of others. It is our job to report what it is called. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 17:51, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

According to the third paragraph of WP:Commonname, if the common name is inaccurate, regardless of how frequently it is being used and regardless of the reliability of the sources, it should not be put in wikipedia. In this case, the use of Santa Barbara Airport is not just inaccurate, it is also misleading. It misleads people to believe that the airport is in Santa Barbara when it is not.

Let me quote that third paragraph of WP:Commonname, so it will be clear:

"inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY BE MORE FREQUENTLY USED BY RELIABLE SOURCES."

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 18:25, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Again, this airport is located ENTIRELY IN CABATUAN. No portion of the runway and facilities lies in Santa Barbara. In fact, THE WHOLE AIRPORT COMPOUND LIES IN CABATUAN.

Map of the airport site, showing that the entire airport compound is located well within Cabatuan.

http://www.iloiloairport.com

Official address of the airport: Brgy. Duyan Duyan, Cabatuan

http://www.caap.gov.ph/web/officesList.htm?init=I

The entrance to the airport is the entrance to the airport compound. This spot is located well within Cabatuan. Prior to this entrance are access roads that are also well within Cabatuan. One road goes back out in the direction of the 3rd District, which includes Janiuay, Lambunao, Calinog, etc. A second road goes back out in the direction of Iloilo City. Just because when going to Iloilo City, one passes through Santa Barbara, Pavia and Jaro; that does not make Santa Barbara, Pavia or Jaro an airport site. The name Santa Barbara Airport is therefore not only inaccurate but also misleading because it misleads people into believing that the airport is also in Santa Barbara.

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 18:40, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

IloiloWanderer had admitted already that the use of the term Santa Barbara Airport is in fact illogical, inaccurate and misleading. He further insinuated that it is not being truthful. According to the third paragraph of WP:Commonname, regardless of how frequently the term is mentioned by reliable sources, if it is inaccurate, it should not be used in wikipedia.

Wikipedia is about "encyclopedic" information. Accuracy is paramount. We are not here to proliferate the mistakes of others. A lie repeated a thousand times is still a lie. Only in propaganda does it occur that a lie repeated a thousand times becomes the truth.

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 20:43, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

User:Tumandokkangcabatuan, we seem to agree that people call it "the Santa Barbara Airport". Great. We have common ground. The disagreement seems to be about whether that fact -- that people call it the Santa Barbara Airport -- should be mentioned in the article. Unfortunately WP:Commonname -- or to use that page's full title Wikipedia:Article titles -- is not helpful here since that WP only applies to article titles and not to the body of articles.

User:Tumandokkangcabatuan, you seem to be arguing that since you and some - many - most others consider that name "illogical, inaccurate and misleading" that we should not mention that fact -- what people call it. I disagree. I think that we need to mention what people call it for the article to be complete and fully truthful. My position can be summed up in a simply syllogism:

Premise A: Wikipedia articles should report the truth

Premise B: The truth is that people call it "the Santa Barbara Airport"

Conclusion: Therefore, this Wikipedia article should report the truth that people call it "the Santa Barbara Airport" --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 02:56, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

By the way we need to remember that this Talk page is not a forum for discussion of the general topic, see WP:NOTFORUM. We need to make sure that the discussion focuses on the article itself and what should be or should not be included in the article. It is not our job to discuss what the name of the airport should be, only what we should say about it. We just need to decided what names it is called and what names are widely used enough to be mentioned in the article. We also need to remember that Wikipedia is not a place to advocate for or against a particular cause, see WP:NOTADVOCATE. It is not our job or the job of the article to advocate for or against a particular name. For these reasons, I have not taken a position here on whether or not calling the airport "the Santa Barbara Airport" is "illogical, inaccurate and misleading". I may or may not believe that. I do not think that this Talk page is the correct forum to debate that topic. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 03:18, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

One more link. WP:NPOV might be of help as we try to determine a consensus on a neutral way to discuss the various names given this airport. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 03:18, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a newspaper. It does not report just about anything what people say without regards to accuracy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It creates an article that is an accurate description of the subject matter. Again, accuracy is paramount. Including a misleading information is not accuracy, and it should still not be included.

Case in point on how the name is misleading. You said that the airport is located in Santa Barbara. Obviously, if you look at the map of the airport in relation to the municipal boundaries, that is false. The airport runway and facilities, and the whole airport compound for that matter, are entirely in Cabatuan. So how did you arrive at the false conclusion that the airport is located in Santa Barbara? Were you fooled by the name Santa Barbara Airport?

So now, you also want to make Wikipedia fool people too that the airport is located in Santa Barbara?

As you can see, if you include the name Santa Barbara Airport, Wikipedia will be presenting an inaccurate picture of the subject matter.

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 04:36, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

The bottom line, there is no airport in Santa Barbara. Is there a runway in Sta. Barbara? None. Is there an airport tower in Santa Barbara? None. Is there a passenger terminal in Santa Barbara? None. Is there a baggage terminal in Santa Barbara? None.

An airport, by definition, is where a runway and terminal buildings are located. Are any of these present in Santa Barbara? Zero, zip, nada, zilch. They are all in Cabatuan.

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 00:19, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

SO THE TRUTH IS, THERE IS NO AIRPORT IN SANTA BARBARA, ILOILO. No runway, no tower, no terminals, no nothing. This is based on facts.

Any reference to an airport in Santa Barbara is simply DISINFORMATION or MISINFORMATION, not factual, and therefore not encyclopedic. It is a false information being spread, deceiving and misleading people into believing something that is untrue.

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 21:50, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

"Also known as the Santa Barbara Airport" is a true and accurate statement. All the arguments above have to do with whether that name SHOULD be used, not whether it IS used. It is undeniable that people call it the "Santa Barbara Airport". Some may think that people are idiots for calling it that but it is undeniable that "Santa Barbara Airport" is a common name. Therefore the question is not whether to mention it but how to mention it. Can we get beyond the debate over accuracy of the name "Santa Barbara Airport" to discuss how to mention the name? I have made some changes to the text. If better we can discuss them here. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 02:32, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Again, THERE IS NO AIRPORT IN SANTA BARBARA, ILOILO. Any reference to an airport in that town is merely DISINFORMATION or MISINFORMATION intended only to mislead people into believing something that is not true. ...... Are idiots (your word, not mine) reliable and credible sources? I don't believe Wikipedia considers them as reliable sources. On the contrary, they were thought of as such because their words were false. ....... An airport, by definition, is where the runway and terminals are located, and all of these are located in Cabatuan ....... You can spread a lie a thousand times and it will still be a lie. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 10:48, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

It is a well-known and well-used "lie" or rather misnomer. This is a great opportunity to correct people, provided that we cite proper third-party sources. Why shouldn't we correct people? Why should we stay silent and allow people's misconception to perpetuate? We need to discuss this "lie". To remain silent about this "lie" and to the dispute is to in fact lie -- it is to hide the truth that many people call it by an inaccurate name. We should not hide THAT truth.

User:Tumandokkangcabatuan wrote "there is no airport in santa barbara iloilo. this is merely disinformation." Who is claiming there is an airport in Santa Barbara? I am certainly not. I am claiming that people call it the "Santa Barbara Airport", that it is known historically as that, that credible third party sources (see WP:Third-party) call it that, that there are CAAP-controlled facilities in Santa Barbara (i.e. the first guardhouse and the most-used access road), and that many if not most passengers access the airport through the Santa Barbara gate. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 04:54, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

You are now contradicting yourself. First you said, and I quote, "The airport is in Santa Barbara.." , which I have solidly debunked..... And now you say, "Who is claiming there is an airport in Santa Barbara? I am certainly not." Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 09:24, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I have said this numerous times and I will say it again and again until you understand what the definition of an airport is. An airport is where the runway and terminals are located. There are no runway and terminals in Santa Barbara, Iloilo. They are all in Cabatuan. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 09:37, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I have said this numerous times and I will say it again and again until you understand -- the dictionary definition of "airport" is not the point. The point is what people call it, historically and now. People have called it the "Santa Barbara Airport" for generations. Censorship of this fact is against Wikipedia's culture. It is lying by omission. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 02:58, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

(P.S. Because the definition of what is or is not an airport -- does "airport" include all airport-controlled property and facilities or only those facilities that are directly related to air services? -- is not the point, I have dropped debating that here. I still stand by my statement that part of the airport is in Santa Barbara, by which I mean that there are CAAP-controlled facilities in Santa Barbara. Tumandokkangcabatuan defines airport differently. This is fine. We do not need to define what is meant by "airport" to resolve the issue about mentioning an alternative name.) --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 03:42, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

You have flip-flopped again. First you said, "The airport is in Santa Barbara.." , which I have solidly debunked..... Second, you said, "Who is claiming there is an airport in Santa Barbara? I am certainly not." ..... And now, you reverse again and say, "I still stand by my statement that part of the airport is in Santa Barbara" ..... Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 04:02, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Again, there is no airport in Santa Barbara, Iloilo. No runways, no terminals, no nothing. It is you who wants to define an airport differently than how it is defined in a dictionary. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 04:02, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't want to talk about the definition of "airport" versus "airport-controlled" versus "airport facilities". I don't want to debate the definition of "flip-flopping". Can we talk about the issue at hand -- how should we mention the historical and a used-by-some name in the article? Please, please, please stay on topic. I am waiting for your proposal. If you proposal is "NO, NO, NO, NO, NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER" than that is simply unacceptable. It is against Wikipedia culture and practice. See WP:Consensus. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 04:09, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Accuracy is paramount. Inaccurate, Misleading, False information has no place in Wikipedia. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 04:22, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Historically, the old Iloilo Airport was in Mandurriao, Iloilo City, not in Santa Barbara. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 04:46, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

This topic is about an airport. If you refuse to agree with the universal definition of what an airport is, your arguments will of course go round and round. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 05:40, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Create a section to discuss the name

Give the discussion above I propose that we add a section under the subtitle "name" with the following wording and citations.. Let's see if we can reach a consensus per WP:Consensus.

The airport is known by a variety of names including the "Iloilo Airport", the "Santa Barbara Airport" and the "Cabatuan Airport". Histories of World War II refer to that era's airport on the same location as the "Santa Barbara Airport". More recent accounts have also called it the Santa Barbara airport including the U.S. Navy and the Lonely Planet guide books. But the name "Santa Barbara Airport" has caused controversy. It persists despite the fact that the airport's facilities are in Cabatuan because the roads leading to it are in Santa Barbara, Iloilo including the first Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines checkpoint and most of main access road. It is through Santa Barbara that most passengers access the airport property.

I note that now there is no consensus. Not wanting to enter into an WP:Edit War I have not tried to edit the article further. But there must be a solution. We cannot keep going round-and-round. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 05:04, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Comment: I believe there will be confusion between Santa Barbara Municipal Airport and the other name for the article which is Santa Barbara Airport unless if somebody is referring it in the Philippines or in Iloilo. And we also use the modern name of the article per WP:MODERNPLACENAME says "for an article about a place whose name has changed over time, context is important. For articles discussing the present, use the modern English name." However it can be given, if a name can be considered as widely accepted if a neutral and reliable source states: "X is the name most often used for this entity" in [the Navy], [during the war] etc... by WP:WIAN. I know these are policies in naming an article but these has some reasons in an edit war like this. FairyTailRocks (talk) 09:17, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

There will indeed be confusion. The term Santa Barbara Airport is misleading because it misleads people into believing that the airport is located in Santa Barbara, Iloilo, when it is not. An airport is where the runway and terminals are located, and these are all in Cabatuan, Iloilo. Not to mention that the official address of the airport is Cabatuan, Iloilo, and not Santa Barbara.

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_in_the_Philippines

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 10:25, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

User:Tumandokkangcabatuan nobody is disagreeing with you about you above statement. You are just repeating yourself unnecessarily.

User:FairyTailRocks, I am confused about your comment. Nobody is suggesting changing the name of the article. Therefore there would be no confusion with the California airport. We are discussing whether to include in the text of the article any mention -- at all -- ever -- of an historic name or of an alternative, if inaccurate, name. I would suggest something be added like the second paragraph at John F. Kennedy International Airport which says "Dedicated as New York International Airport in 1948,[7] the airport was more commonly known as Idlewild Airport until 1963, when it was renamed in memory of John F. Kennedy, the 35th President of the United States.[8]" However Tumandokkangcabatuan insists on perfect silence. Tumandokkangcabatuan Insists that we censor any and all mention of the name. Such censorship is in my opinion contrary to Wikipedia's culture. I want to mention the name so that we can correct people's mis-perceptions and explain to them what is in and what is not in Santa Barbara. I've tried over and over again to try to reach a consensus with Tumandokkangcabatuan but he refuses to participate in any effort to come up with any language acceptable to all. He just keeps insisting that this "lie" as he calls it should never, ever, ever, ever, ever, in any way be mentioned. Any mention in the article no matter how nuanced or explanatory he immediately deletes. I find such obstinance incompatible with Wikipedia's culture. I am struggling to find a way forward, a way to consensus, but Tumandokkangcabatuan refuses every attempt to work towards a consensus. I think that we need to mention that it is called the Santa Barbara Airport, to explain why that might be, and to explain that terminal and runways are in Cabatuan. Tumandokkangcabatuan says no. No way. In no way, shape or form will he allow any mention at all, anywhere of the airport's historical and used-by-some name. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 02:54, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Accuracy is paramount. Inaccurate, Misleading, False information has no place in Wikipedia. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 04:34, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Historically, the old Iloilo Airport was in Mandurriao, Iloilo City, not in Santa Barbara. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 04:44, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

If some people refer to this as Santa Barbara Airport then that should be mentioned. It should be done in such a way as to ensure the reader knows that the airport is not in Santa Barbara. You could have something like "Although not in Santa Barbara, the airport is sometimes referred to, incorrectly, as Santa Barbara Airport." along with the necessary references. Not having the name, if it is used, is not helping the reader.

User:Tumandokkangcabatuan you mention WP:COMMONNAME but that does not apply here as there is no mention of moving the article or replacing every instance of Iloilo International Airport with Santa Barbara Airport. Also you say that Wikipedia should not include wrong/inaccurate information. That is partly true. The reality is that Wikipedia should not present wrong/inaccurate information in such a way to make it seem true. It is acceptable to provide information that is wrong/inaccurate and to explain why it is not true. An example of this is the Moon landing conspiracy theories where people believe that the US didn't land on the moon. Now the theories are not true and are full of wrong/inaccurate information but are given space on Wikipedia. But not in a way as to give them support. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 07:10, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

IMO, of course this name should be included per policy WP:TITLE#Treatment of alternative names, if reliably sourced and correctly described, as others have mentioned above. --Chaswmsday (talk) 07:39, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Please read the previous sections as they show what he was intending to do. He wanted to present to the readers that the name Santa Barbara Airport is in equal footing with Cabatuan Airport because, as he erroneously said, the airport is also in Santa Barbara. This assertion I have solidly debunked as there is no runway nor terminals in Santa Barbara. He reversed himself again and again so that the term can be mentioned no matter what. He said that the airport has been called Sta. Barbara Airport for generations. That is utterly false. Because the old Iloilo Airport is located far away in Mandurriao, Iloilo City and had never been called and has not been confused as Sta. Barbara Airport. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 07:48, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

It was not I who first mentioned WP:COMMONNAME. It was IloiloWanderer. In fact, I was the one who pointed out to him afterwards that his argument that its being a common name does not hold absolutely, because according to the 3rd paragraph, inaccurate common names should not be used. Also, as FairyTailRocks had mentioned, while this principle is found in the naming of the article, this can provide reason also in situations like this. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 07:48, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Chaswmsday brought up WP:TITLE#Treatment of alternative names, which is also found in the naming of articles, in which case, I would also have to bring up the third paragraph of WP:COMMONNAME which states that if a common name is inaccurate, it should not be used, regardless of how frequently it is being used by reliable sources. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 07:54, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

IloiloWanderer said that JFK Airport was formerly known as Idlewild Airport and New York Airport. That situation is not applicable to the term Sta Barbara Airport. Historical-wise, the old Iloilo Airport was in Mandurriao, far from Sta Barbara, and was not confused as Sta. Barbara Airport. Accuracy-wise, Sta. Barbara Airport is not the same as JFK Airport because all three names of JFK Airport (JFK, NY, Idlewild) are accurate as the airport is located in New York, specifically in Idlewild, whereas Sta Barbara Airport is inaccurate and misleading as there is no runway nor terminals in Sta Barbara. If it is to be applied here, the Iloilo Airport would have only one alternative name, Cabatuan Airport only. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 08:07, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

For Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk · contribs), let me rephrase my first and last sentence, "I believe there will be confusion between Santa Barbara Municipal Airport and the other name for the article which is Santa Barbara Airport unless if somebody is referring it in the Philippines or in Iloilo", as I look to some sources from Iloilo Wanderer, there are words "Philippines" and "Iloilo" in the article to clarify it is the airport, although you are correct it is not located in Sta. Barbara, Iloilo but it can be accepted per CambridgeBayWeather (talk · contribs) (which is an admin) said by the article Moon landing conspiracy theories to show it is acceptable to provide wrong/inaccurate information and to explain why it is not true or to clarify, also WP:WIAN says "however it can be given, if a name can be considered as widely accepted if a neutral and reliable source states it" with the more broader explanation by Chaswmsday (talk · contribs) per policy WP:TITLE#Treatment of alternative names, if it is reliably sourced and correctly described it can be given in the lead of the article, and this comes to my rephrase in my last sentence, "I know these are policies in naming an article but these has some reasons in an edit war like this" which means not all sections or paragraphs can be used as an "evidence" since it is about naming an article and this edit war focuses about an alternative name. For WP:COMMONNAME, the term "common name" appears in this policy they mean a commonly or frequently used name, and more like used in naming an article than using it in the lead section or an alternative name.

For example Lady Gaga, since Lady Gaga is more commonly used name it used as a title than it's birth name Stefani Germanotta which is present in it's lead section and FIFA since it is a frequently used name, it is used as a title than it's full name Fédération Internationale de Football Association also present in the lead. I believe WP:TITLE#Treatment of alternative names can be used as a guide in these edit war since it's topic is about an alternative name even though it is a part of WP:TITLE.

For Iloilo Wanderer (talk · contribs), I am not suggesting that this article changes it's name, it is only a part or a section of naming articles and you didn't see my last sentence? Anyways, if an article changes it's name over time it is recommended to use the modern name like it's alternative modern name "Cabatuan Airport" per WP:MODERNPLACENAME but if it is supported by reliable sources it can be accepted per WP:WIAN and WP:TITLE#Treatment of alternative names. For your article you showed me John F. Kennedy International Airport, New York is the place of the airport so it can be used as an alternative name and Idlewild Airport which is the original name of it, I believe they are just the same and I didn't see any edit war from it. FairyTailRocks (talk) 10:46, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps this could help:

The reliability of Wikipedia articles can be measured by

No.4 - Susceptibility to, and exclusion and removal of, false information

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia#Areas_of_reliability

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 14:01, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

DISINFORMATION or MISINFORMATION are false information that is being spread either intentionally or unintentionally, to mislead, to convince someone of something that is not true. Referring to an airport as if it is located in a place where it is not is false information. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 14:40, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

It is clear that the airport is also known as "Santa Barbara Airport" by some, the fact you think it is wrong or it is wrong for some reason is not a concern as long as it is reliable sourced. Often airports are named after the cities they serve and not the actual location they are built. Adding the sentence in the lead with a reliable reference that it is also known as "Santa Barbara Airport" seem reasonable. MilborneOne (talk) 19:04, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

The City it serves is Iloilo City, and the province it serves is Iloilo. It is therefore already officially named as Iloilo Airport. The place where it is located is Cabatuan, Iloilo, so the alternative name Cabatuan Airport is also consistent with the naming of JFK/New York/Idlewide Airport. On the other hand, the term Santa Barbara Airport was merely a disinformation being spread to create doubt and grab credit from the real location of the airport. It misleads and confuses people into believing that the place is in another town where it is not. It's like calling the JFK Airport or New York Airport as Pennsylvania Airport. It is an obvious disinformation and will not do service to the readers.

Anybody can spread false information, whether deliberately or unintentionally, even to the extent of having it mentioned in reliable sources. That is why, although the third paragraph of WP:COMMONNAME was posted in the naming of articles, it provides justification why false names should not be used, no matter how frequently a false name is being mentioned in reliable sources.

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 23:30, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Your continued refusal to get the point and your repetitive argument is becoming disruptive. One more time then. The appeal to Wikipedia:Article titles#Use commonly recognizable names does not apply as that refers to article titles and I don't care who started it. The discussion is not to replace the common/correct name with something else. The discussion is to provide the referenced information that some people incorrectly call the airport by a different name. Also stop shouting (all capitals) and the "support" below does not help your case at all. In fact all that did was prompt me to open Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Tumandokkangcabatuan. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 08:07, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

The capitals that I have used lately are links to a wikipedia page. I thought that they should be capitalized. If they are not to be so, then please forgive my capitalization. As for my comments, I am only replying to the latest comments of others. ... I do not understand what you mean by "support" . Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 09:16, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

I read the whole discussion! How am I suppose to reply if I haven't read all of it? You don't need to be repetitive for your replies it prevents the edit war for a consensus or a decision. Also for Reliability of Wikipedia#Areas of reliability if it is a false information then it is not supported by reliable sources? You may not read WP:THIRDPARTY which is also part of the section.

Wikipedia's requirements for a third party source are: it passes both Verifiability and no original research which means a source is counted as reliable if it is published and it is a university-level textbook, books published by respected publishing houses, magazines, journals or mainstream newspapers. Since, sources like the Lonely Planet guide book and the book is published by the BBC, it is counted as reliable, and an article from the official website of the U.S. Navy is also counted as reliable per WP:SOURCE (part of verifiability). For no original research it states "original research is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist" it has reliable sources which clearly passes the term. FairyTailRocks (talk) 10:21, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

CambridgeBayWeather I have read your suggestion again, and I have typed it in the article, under the already existing "Name" section. Thanks. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 10:51, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

• Clearly not a neutral edit so I have added a tweak, basically just added the name in the lead with a ref and tweaked some of the non-neutral language. I think we can close this now, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 18:30, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

This is a reply to the comment of MilborneOne. I have already agreed to the suggestion of CambridgeBayWeather, who is an admin and neutral, and I have inserted his suggestion to the exact language in the "Name" section of the article. (This thread is proposing a new section, which I find unnecessary since there is already an existing "Name" section.) I thought that by that, this is already resolved. Now I'm being accused of non-neutral edits. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 22:24, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry but your change needs consensus of everbody here, the change I made was a compromise which didnt add the disputed name section back in but mentions that Santa Barbara is like Cabutuan an alternate name used by reliably referenced sources. The non neutral bit was adding the word "entirely" which is not really needed it either is or is not and "By mistake, the airport is also sometimes incorrectly referred to as Sta Barbara Airport, although the airport is not located in Santa Barbara.! which is just a repeat of your argument and to remain neutral is not needed. I tried to create a compromise between the two camps but I am happy to take the views of another neutral admin like CambridgeBayWeathers to see if he supports my suggestion or not. Perhaps we should refrain from further changes to the article until he comments, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 17:15, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

What I wrote earlier was not supposed to be the final version but just a suggested starting point. MilborneOne's version, and remember he is also a neutral admin, is better than mine and has references. By the way MilborneOne http://www.caap.gov.ph/web/officesList.htm?init=I is a dead link. Wayback Machine has an archived version at http://web.archive.org/web/20131004213246/http://www.caap.gov.ph/web/officesList.htm?init=I but depending on what you wanted http://caap.gov.ph/index.php/contact-us/directory/finish/22-contact/163-caap-airport-directory has a current list of airports. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 20:19, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

CambridgeBayWeather Thank you for the archived version. I really appreciate. It clearly shows that the airport is officially located in Cabatuan. The reason the old page is not available right now is because CAAP is redoing its website and I think they are recategorizing Iloilo Airport in the website as an international one. I have verified this when I went to the homepage and tried to go to the specific airport. Iloilo Airport had only started serving international flights recently, I think sometime in the last part of 2011.

To all, the compromise suggestion of CambridgeBayWeather is backed up by the consensus of Airport pages in Wikipedia. The alternative name of an airport is either its official name or the name of the place where it is located. Iloilo Airport (old and new) has always been officially called Iloilo Airport, and not in any name. It was named after the city that it serves, Iloilo City, and also the entire province, which is also similarly named Province of Iloilo. The old location of Iloilo Airport was in Mandurriao, Iloilo City, far away from the current location, and was not confused with Santa Barbara. Iloilo Airport was in Mandurriao for decades, and the transfer to Cabatuan was made only in 2007 when the new airport was completed. The new runway and terminals are all in Cabatuan. Mandurriao Airport is the wiki page of the old Iloilo Airport. Since Mandurriao was the official location, it goes then that the alternative name was Mandurriao Airport. If you check the photo of the airport on that page, you will see that the sign in front of the airport was Iloilo Airport.

Please allow me to cite a few airport wiki pages as examples, to show that the alternative names are either the official name or location name. I will add to what has already been mentioned here:

Boise Airport, alternative names are Boise Airport (official name and location name), Boise Air Terminal (location name) Gowen Field (official name, after Paul Gowen)

Newark Liberty International Airport, the alternative names are Newark Liberty International Airport (official name and location), Newark Metropolitan Airport (location name), Newark International Airport (location name)

John F. Kennedy International Airport, the alternative names are John F. Kennedy International Airport (official name), New York International Airport (location name), Idlewild Airport (location name)

La Guardia Airport, the alternative names are Glenn H. Curtiss Airport (official name), North Beach Airport (official name), New York Municipal Airport (location name), LaGuardia Airport (official name)

I am here only for accuracy and I really appreciate that I am given the opportunity to present them. Thank you.

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 01:34, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

To MilborneOne, your edit made it worst because it is now appearing that the airport is either in Santa Barbara or that the city being served is Santa Barbara. Both are false. CambridgeBayWeather was correct in saying that Wikipedia should not be presenting false information as if it were true. My own stand was that false information should not be included in Wikipedia so that the readers would not be confused and will not be misled, and I still stand by it, but I agreed to the compromise of CambridgeBayWeather because it does not affect the accuracy of the article. Yours however, affects the accuracy. .. Not only is the information false, your edit is also inconsistent with other wiki airport pages. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 05:08, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Tumandokkangcabatuan two neutral admins have looked at this and a compromise agreed so I dont see much point in you repeating the same arguments which can be considered disruptive. You have now reverted the agreed change again which is also being also disruptive, perhaps time as already suggested for you to drop the stick and move on. MilborneOne (talk) 14:35, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

What compromise are you talking about? a compromise is something in between. That clearly is not. And your version is not backed up by other wiki airport pages. ... What I did was the one that is a compromise, because I accommodated the other side. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 00:24, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

References

Is http://www.iloiloairport.com a legitimate source?

http://www.iloiloairport.com is used as a source in the article. Does anyone know anything about it? Who created the website? Who wrote the content? There is no information about the author or publisher on the website and there is little in the way of references there as well.Does it comply with the standards of WP:SOURCE? If not, we should delete it and find another source. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 04:01, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Location of Iloilo Airport

Hi, I am Jose Nereo C. Lujan, the Chief of the Public Information and Community Affairs Office of the Province of Iloilo. Please be informed that the Iloilo International Airport is in Cabatuan, Iloilo, thus its secondary name is Cabatuan Airport. There is no way that it should have a secondary name "Santa Barbara Airport" for the reason that the access road is in the town of Santa Barbara. What happens if an access road is constructed from the town of San Miguel? Should it also have a secondary name "San Miguel Airport".

I have here an Identification Card (No. 3627) for the Iloilo Airport Security Committee, which expires February 2015, and the official address of the Iloilo International Airport is "Cabatuan, Iloilo".

You may reach me at my office:

Public Information and Community Affairs Office 2nd Floor, Iloilo Provincial Capitol Bonifacio Drive, Iloilo City Telfax: +63 33 3377837; Mobile: +63 918 5000483

I hope this settles the issue.

Thank you,

Nereo.lujan (talk) 02:42, 11 December 2013 (UTC) Jose Nereo C. Lujan

This does not help at all. We have no way of telling who you are. Also we are not discussing the use of an official name but what some people mistakenly call the airport. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 08:09, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi again, I have already provided you my name, official designation and contact details. If you need me to prove my credentials, I can send you an official communication with my scanned ID, passport or whatever that you may need. As an official of the Province of Iloilo, I have provided you with information which may help correct some information in your site. You said you have no way of telling who am I. I then request you to call the Office of the Governor of the Province of Iloilo at +63 33 3381561 and ask about me. Or you can visit http://www.iloilo.gov.ph/the-ipg/officials/executive-officials/29-jose-nereo-c-lujan. Thank you.

Jose Nereo C. Lujan Chief, Public Information and Community Affairs Office 2nd Floor, Iloilo Provincial Capitol Bonifacio Drive, Iloilo City Telfax +63 33 3377837; Mobile +63 918 5000483 Nereo.lujan (talk) 09:49, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for information we have included the alternate names of both Cabatuan and Santa Barbara Airport as provided by reliable references, that fact that some names are not considered to be official does not distract from the fact that some people use it. The fact that some people and perhaps the airport itself doesnt like it doesnt mean that we as an encyclopedia can ignore properly referenced fact. We dont say that either Cabatuan or Santa Barbara are used officially and a lot of airports can still be named by some as the unofficial and sometimes long out of use names. Just as an example Newark Liberty International Airport is regular called New York Newark Airport or various combinations of those names but it not the official name and is not actually in New York or even New York state. MilborneOne (talk) 18:44, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

This is a reply to the comment of MilborneOne. The three alternative names of Newark Liberty International Airport, which are "Newark Liberty International Airport" "Newark Metropolitan Airport" and "Newark International Airport", are all accurate because the airport is in Newark. That is not comparable to Sta Barbara because there is no airport (no runway nor terminals) in Sta. Barbara. I find the neutral proposal of admin CambridgeBayWeather acceptable and have edited to his exact language. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 22:48, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

As the chief of the Public Information and Community Affairs Office of the Province of Iloilo, Philippines, I respectfully request Wikipedia to stop referring to the Iloilo International Airport as "Santa Barbara Airport" because this will be misleading. The purpose here is to provide the right information to the reading public and not to sow further confusion. The official name of the airport is "Iloilo International Airport" and its secondary name is "Cabatuan Airport". If you need an official communication from the Provincial Government of Iloilo regarding this matter, please provide me with an address or email where we can send our note. Salamat gid!

Jose Nereo C. Lujan Chief, Public Information and Community Affairs Office 2nd Floor, Iloilo Provincial Capitol Bonifacio Drive, Iloilo City Telfax +63 33 3377837; Mobile +63 918 5000483 Nereo.lujan (talk) 00:31, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Your comment was noted but that fact you and others dont like it is not a reason to remove the mention, the aerticle clearly mentions the official name and the two alternates are clearly noted as such. We dont need official confirmation from anything other than reliable sources which I am afraid indicate that the two alternate names Cabatuan and Santa Barbara Airport are used. Thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 17:21, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Nereo.lujan, after your first post I checked online and was able to see that Jose Nereo C. Lujan who is in that position was a real person. However, nobody is going to call that number to see who answers. Please don't post copies of anything official as that would probably violate copyright and leave you open to identity theft, especially if you used your passport. Also from what I posted above in the other section "The discussion is not to replace the common/correct name with something else. The discussion is to provide the referenced information that some people incorrectly call the airport by a different name." CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 20:26, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

How can you sue me for identity theft? Can I steal my own identity? Certainly not! Jose Nereo C. Lujan Chief, Public Information and Community Affairs Office 2nd Floor, Iloilo Provincial Capitol Bonifacio Drive, Iloilo City Telfax +63 33 3377837; Mobile +63 918 5000483 Nereo.lujan (talk) 00:14, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

By the way, I noted that you cited http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=38063 as Reference No. 3, which is a news article written by an American who is not really familiar with the geography here. If you can't cite a Philippine-based or an Iloilo-based source that refers to the Iloilo International Airport as Santa Barbara Airport, I suggest that you stop referring to it as such. Thank you! Jose Nereo C. Lujan Chief, Public Information and Community Affairs Office 2nd Floor, Iloilo Provincial Capitol Bonifacio Drive, Iloilo City Telfax +63 33 3377837; Mobile +63 918 5000483 Nereo.lujan (talk) 04:17, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

I never said nor did I tend to imply that I was going to sue you for identity theft. I meant that posting a copy of your passport would make it easier for someone else to steal your identity. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 05:21, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Santa Barbara Airport

We seem to have multiple discussions on the same subject and the reluctance of some editors not to accept the view of others. Clearly this is becoming disruptive a compromise edit was made please consider that such discussions are not a win or lose but an answer that is not one or the other, perhaps we can close this subject now, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 17:28, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

I am for accuracy. If I am to win, I wouldn't be accommodating the compromise suggestion of a neutral admin, but I did. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 00:33, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

What I wrote was not a suggestion it was an example of the type of thing. It was to be worked on and I think that MilborneOne's effort was much better than what I wrote. Also I think you filing of Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/iloilo international airport is a little premature and should have included myself. However, you should have started with some of the other steps at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 23:07, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

CambridgeBayWeather, you were adamant in your position before. But when MilborneOne came, you backtracked, and when he posted on your talk page, it resulted in your reversing my edit, which ironically was made up of exactly your own language. I'm amazed. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 11:23, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

From what I've read, MedCom had changed their rules, and it is now ok to go to them directly without going through DR. So going there directly is not an issue, not unusual, and within the rules. ... What's the next recourse if the opposing side refused mediation? Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 11:30, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

I am slightly confused by your medcom submission where you claim that I and others are opposing you change the article name to Iloilo Airport when the debate I was looking at was about adding a section about naming issues, rather than adding a naming section the compromise was to add both Cabutuan and Santa Barbara as alternate names in the lead. I wasnt even aware that there was an issues with the "International" bit in the name. Just a question to Tumandokkangcabatuan if all you want is to add Iloilo Airport to the lead then I dont see that as a problem it wasnt even something that was part of the current debate and I have added it to the articlelead. If you want to change the name of the article then just start a move request, I dont have a view on if International should be included or not we would need to look at reliable sources, although note that User:Nereo.lujan who is connected with the airport included the "International" in his posts. MilborneOne (talk) 14:20, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

MilborneOne, you certainly did, and I have proof

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iloilo_International_Airport&diff=586024229&oldid=586005440

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 14:31, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

That is not enough. As I've always said, Sta. Barbara Airport is incorrect and misleading. But I'm willing to have it mentioned in the article if it is mentioned in that context. That it is an incorrect reference, not a legitimate alternative name. My compromise with CambridgeBayWeather would have been accurate. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 14:34, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

OK what is wrong with the statement and sometimes Santa Barbara Airport in the lead. It is the only mention of Santa Barbara airport in the whole article. MilborneOne (talk) 14:52, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

It is not a legitimate alternative name for the reasons that I have already enumerated several times, and it should not be shown as such. So as not to confuse and mislead people, the best would be not to mention it at all. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 14:58, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

So your issue is that you think Santa Barbara Airport is inaccurate and misleading. Perhaps I can make it clearer Wikipedia doesnt actually worry about it being inaccurate or misleading this is not a travel guide and all we do is reflect reliable sources. Clearly some people call it Santa Barbara Airport the fact you dont like it for some reason doesnt matter. The compromise was to add to the lead the airport is sometimes called Santa Barbara Airport a fairly simple neutral and factual statement. Clearly not misleading as anybody looking at a map for Santa Barbara will find a large airport with the main access road directly from/to the town. You are welcome to get other opinions to see if the statement "also known as ... and sometimes Santa Barbara Airport" is misleading or inaccurate, perhaps try Wikipedia:Third opinion as a starting point. MilborneOne (talk) 15:36, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't just think, I have proof that it is not accurate. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 15:55, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

We dont need any proof the fact that is is not accurate is not a concern please read Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth. MilborneOne (talk) 16:05, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Are you going to continue being unreasonable? Where is your so-called verifiability when you refused to mention Iloilo Airport? Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 16:13, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Not sure me adding Iloilo Airport to the lead once I understood what you wanted as being unreasonable. We have added both Iloilo Airport and the two unofficial alternate names Cabutuan and Santa Barbara to the lead as a compromise to both camps. Your clearly dont want to let go of the bone and refuse to listen to others or understand how wikipedia works so I think it is time to close this discussion, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 16:24, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

I have solid proof that it is you who do not want to listen to others. Because you refused mediation. No matter how you keep on lying, your action speaks for itself. Why don't you drop the stick and move on. I will not win personally if accuracy is put in wikipedia. It is wikipedia that wins. Merry Christmas. I hope you have a happy time during the holidays. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 06:06, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

It is you who needs to drop the stick. You are refusing to listen. There is nothing in MilborneOne's edit that suggest the proper name is Santa Barbara or that the airport is located there. All it says is that sometimes, some people call it that. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 22:23, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

CambridgeBayWeather , can we call a fruit an apple even though it is not an apple? How would you react if there are people who sometimes call an orange an apple? :D ... It's like saying, if somebody calls an orange an apple, it doesn't suggest that it is an apple, it's just that people sometimes call it an apple. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 15:29, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

What I'm driving at is that, terms come with their own inherent meanings. If you call a fruit an apple, it better be an apple, not any other fruit. The same thing with the term airport. It comes with its own connotation. Just by saying it, it assumes its own meaning. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 15:44, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to provide some similar examples. The Angono Petroglyphs is actually in Binangonan, Rizal and not in Angono. It was named that because the access is from Angono. Similarly, the Pagsanjan Falls is actually in Cavinti, Laguna and not in Pagsanjan. The access to the falls is upstream from Pagsanjan. --seav (talk) 13:13, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

seav, They are not airports. My own Wiki examples are airport wiki pages. And the use of Santa Barbara Airport as an alternative name is inconsistent with practices in other airport wiki pages.Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 19:03, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Also, both Angono Petroglyphs and Pagsanjan Falls are official names. That is not applicable here because the official name of the airport is Iloilo Airport. This was actually covered in my second of three reasons why the term Sta. Barbara Airport is false. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 01:08, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Contractor comment

Hi, I have read this article in wikipedia because I am very much concerned also with Iloilo International Airport or Cabatuan Airport. We work in the contractor side during the construction of the airport. When I read this article here in wikipedia, I wonder why there is a Sta. Barbara Airport when there is actually no airport in Sta. Barbara. Only 2km of 3km access road from the main highway belongs to Sta. Barbara. The rest of the access road until it reaches the airport belongs to Cabatuan. Now I have a question, what if the original plan, in which the access road will be passing through Brgy. Tiring, Cabatuan, Iloilo only had pushed through, will you still call it Sta. Barbara Airport as an alternative name, because it is a nearby town or San Miguel Airport because it is also a nearby town? Dear editors can you correct this article so that your reader will not be misled please? 175.157.127.136 (talk)

I don't think that anybody is going to be misled. Some people call it by the wrong name and the article reflects that. The article is at the correct name and reflects that in the text. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 22:23, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

CambridgeBayWeather, Does it say in the current article that it's the wrong name? Where is it reflected in the current article that it's the wrong name? Your original language that you were adamant about had the word "incorrectly", but when I agreed to your language, and I inserted it, you removed it. And then you turn around and say, I don't listen. Isn't it ironic that the very person I listened to and agreed with would now say that I refused to listen? Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 17:37, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Duyan Duyan Cabatuan Iloilo Airport

Duyan Duyan Cabatuan Iloilo Airport after the specific barrio where the airport is located should also be put as an alternative name since this is verifiable as an official location (see airport directory, first link below) and as a colloguial name (see second link below).

airport directory

http://web.archive.org/web/20131004213246/http://www.caap.gov.ph/web/officesList.htm?init=I

Duyan Duyan Cabatuan Iloilo Airport as colloquial name

http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/23547696/Duyan-duyan+Cabatuan+Iloilo+Airport+Lot

Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 03:48, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Hell In A Bucket , Thanks for the SPI reports. I would like to insert Duyan Duyan Cabatuan Iloilo Airport as an alternative name in the article since it is verifiable. Your opinion please? Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 04:17, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose addition of fictional name to make a point - a made up name should not be included with no evidence of use, a partial postal address used by one source is not an indication of the name of the airport which is clearly listed at "Iloilo Airport" on that website and it never uses the term "Duyan Duyan Cabatuan Iloilo Airport". The second source doesnt use "Duyan Duyan Cabatuan Iloilo Airport" as the actual name of the airport but as a description of the area to sell local real estate a bit like "Duyan Duyan Cabatuan Iloilo Residential Lot" also used on the same page, more detailed page on that website uses the term "Iloilo Airport" for the name of the airport. MilborneOne (talk) 09:36, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

MilborneOne, Fictional? Duyan-Duyan Cabatuan Iloilo is the official full address of the airport. And you call that fictional? No wonder you were opposed to the official name of the airport. It seems like you want to rename the airport away from its official names and addresses. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 11:08, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I didnt say it was not the postal address just that we (or in fact anybody) doesnt call an airport by its postal address so it is clearly made up to make a point, which appears in your next post. MilborneOne (talk) 16:06, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Sta Barbara Airport is fictional because it does not exist. But Duyan-Duyan Cabatuan Iloilo Airport is physically real because there is an airport in that place. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 11:23, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

This is not a discussion about Santa Barbara but your request to add the postal address as if it was the name of the airport. If this is really still about Santa Barbara then perhaps you should consider after two blocks that is probably a subject you should avoid. MilborneOne (talk) 16:06, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

It was you who brought up the term fictional. And that applies squarely on Sta Barbara Airport because there is no airport in Santa Barbara. Sta Barbara Airport is bogus. Your airport is not real, intended only to mislead readers into believing that there is something there when there is none. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 19:57, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

The term Santa Barbara Airport is inaccurate and should not be put in the lead as an alternative name

Discussion closed - I think we have exhausted this and to continue is clearly disruptive

The term "Santa Barbara Airport" should not be put in the lead as an "alternative name" because it is inaccurate. According to this wiki page (link below), it is better not to put any information at all rather than put misleading or false information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Inaccuracy "WP:Editing policy states, "on Wikipedia a lack of information is better than misleading or false information"." Sta. Barbara Airport is misleading and false because: 1. There is no airport in Santa Barbara, Iloilo, past or present. There is no runway nor terminals in that town. The old Iloilo Airport is located far away in Mandurriao, and the new one is located in Cabatuan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandurriao_Airport http://caap.gov.ph/index.php/contact-us/directory/finish/22-contact/163-caap-airport-directory (under Region VI ) 2. It is not the official name of that airport, whether past or present. The official name of the old airport and the new airport is Iloilo Airport. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Iloilo_Airport.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fupp6q5-_co/TZp5lsh6PlI/AAAAAAAABJ8/tZloevL4VIQ/s640/2884802030_6f973c102b.jpg 3. Sta. Barbara is not a city being served by the airport. There are only two cities in the Province of Iloilo, Passi City and Iloilo City. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iloilo#Subdivisions Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk) 05:38, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

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Original Research

Per discussion at the arbitration page...

The source for Santa Barbara Airport is not sufficient and not reliable, as the U.S. Navy was unfamiliar with the place, being there only for a few days visit, busily doing emergency typhoon relief.

Without significant, reliable and authoritative sources, the term Santa Barbara Airport is merely original research or hearsay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk • contribs) 11:13, 10 May 2014‎

I'm not sure that 'hearsay' is relevant - what is relevant however is that the article states that the airport is "sometimes" known as "Santa Barbara Airport", based on a source that merely refers to it as such in passing, and makes no further assertion. If this is the only source for 'Santa Barbara airport' (and I've not been able to find any more, like Risker [5]), the 'sometimes' basically amounts to 'once, as far as we know' - and accordingly is undue. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:45, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/regions/view/20080117-113096/New-Bacolod-Iloilo-airports-declared-intl-gateways is a local media source that also uses the term The Lagindingan Airport is 40 kilometers from the Cagayan de Oro Airport and the Santa Barbara Airport in Iloilo is 22 km from Iloilo City.. The airport is on land between Cabatuan and St. Barbara but the main entrance and access was built between the airport and Santa Barbara (only a few kms away) which causes some of the confusion. MilborneOne (talk) 16:53, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Another mention in passing. I don't see that two such sources do anything more than one does - merely show that the name has been used, not that it is even remotely a common name. It still looks undue to me. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:24, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

I dont have a view on that, I came here on request as a neutral admin to reach a compromise which was to mention all the alternate names (Cabatuan and Santa Barbara) equally in the intoduction. If that is no longer sustainable and they are both removed I dont have an issue with that. MilborneOne (talk) 18:13, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

The airport is located entirely in Cabatuan. No runway nor terminals exist in Santa Barbara. The whole airport compound lies well within Cabatuan including the entrance to that compound. Just because the road coming from Iloilo City going to the airport passes through Jaro, Pavia and Santa Barbara, doesn't make Jaro, Pavia or Santa Barbara an airport site. ... The two names cannot be equal. One is a legitimate alternative name while the other one has no basis. Tumandokkangcabatuan (talk)

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Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

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Philippine English + mdy dates

This article is about an airport in the Philippines, therefore I have set the variant to en-PH and have reformatted all the dates to mdy. A diehard editor (talk | edits) 09:48, 18 September 2022 (UTC)