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Archive 1

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Re: the Walpole baronies

Baron Walpole of Walpole was created for the 1st Earl's eldest son in 1723. He passed it to his son who died unmarried. Normally this would mean it would have become extinct, so there must have been a special remainder, because it apparently passed to the famous Horace (did it? or was he bypassed?) and then to his cousin (the 1st earl of the 1806 creation), who had already succeeded to his father's creation as Baron Walpole of Wolterton. Or have I got something wrong here? Mintguy 06:34, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)

The barony became extinct. The Earldom of Orford passed briefly to HW at the end of his life: Enc. Britt.: 'His nephew, the reckless 3rd earl, died on the 5th of December 1791, and Horace succeeded to the peerage, but he never took his place in the House of Lords, and sometimes signed his name as " the uncle of the late earl of Orford." ' Wetman

If the barony became extinct (which is should have done unless there was a special remainder) and it wasn't recreated, the current Lord Walpole wouldn't be Baron Walpole of Walpole and Baron Walpole of Wolterton see Burke's peerage [1] Mintguy 06:49, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)


You're right, there was a special remainder. Robert Walpole, the 2nd Earl of Orford of the 1742 creation, was created "Baron Walpole of Walpole" in 1723 with a special remainder, failing heirs male of his body, to his brothers, Edward and Horatio, and to his father, Robert Walpole, in like manner, with remainder finally to the heirs male of the body of his grandfather, Robert Walpole. George Walpole, the 3rd Earl of Orford of the 1742 creation, and the 2nd Baron "Walpole of Walpole", died unmarried, at which time the Baorny passed to his uncle Horatio (Horace) Walpole (the subject of the article). He died unmarried, and the Barony devolved upon his cousin and heir male, Horatio Walpole (son of Horatio, 1st Baron "Walpole of Wolverton"). The Earldom of Orford became extinct on the death of Robert Horace Walpole in 1931, but the Baronies of Walpole of Walpole and Walpole of Wolterton devolved on his distant cousin and heir male, Robert Henry Montgomerie Walpole. -- Someone else 07:12, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
In case that's less than clear: the 2nd Earl of Orford became a peer before his father did: it was a way of honouring the father, whose political career would have been discommoded by accepting a peerage. This explains, in part, the special remainder. The father, the 1st Earl, became a peer only after retiring as Prime Minister. -- Someone else 07:27, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Cofferer of the Household

Gentlemen, could that have another Horace Walpole who held that position? This particular individual would have been only 13 years old in 1730.--Anglius 01:49, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Good eye. It was his uncle, Horatio Walpole, 1st Baron Walpole of Wolterton. Fixed. Choess 02:08, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Nelson Namesake

In the opening paragraph: "and namesake of his cousin Lord Nelson." Nelson was Horatio, not Horace, so not his namesake. I have edited, but thought I'd comment here in case the author was referring to some other connection. Pipnosis 16:54, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

"Horace" is a familiar form of "Horatio", I believe. See the 1911 EB entry on him, for instance. Choess 18:11, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Sure, you could be right on that one. Even if it's technically true, I think it still reads a bit odd, when most people know him as Horatio. I'm not overly set on my edit, though - your call. Pipnosis 22:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Horace was sometimes written of as Horatio Walpole and I have seen Latin epitaphs of men named Horace whose Christian names was rendered Horatius.Cloptonson (talk) 13:33, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

More commonly known

Horatio Walpole, 4th Earl of Orford (24 September 1717 – 2 March 1797), more commonly known as Horace Walpole...

Quite true. Is this a case where the article title should omit a peerage inherited in old age, and not normally used about the recipient? See Bertrand Russell, Adam Nicolson, Frederick North, Lord North, Anne Isabella Byron, Baroness Byron (who was Baroness Wentworth in her last four years). Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree. The article should be moved to "Horace Walpole".--Britannicus (talk) 20:01, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
There are other Horace Walpoles in the family but only one who is 4th Earl of Orford. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:29, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Granted. Consider, however, WP:PRIMARYUSAGE: is it overwhelmingly likely that Horace Walpole means this subject rather than his uncle? This should be in the same sense that Samuel Johnson is primary usage for the author of the Dictionary, rather any of the dozen other Sam Johnsons we have articles on. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:45, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
But then there is George Gordon Byron, 6th Baron Byron. Johnson was a case that was argued because he lacks a title or an alternate name to go by. Who knows. I don't really care either way. There are some fanatics that like to have all of the nobility with the titles. Ottava Rima (talk) 02:52, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
One step at a time; but this seems enough discussion to frame a RM and see what happens, unless someone objects tomorrow. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
I think you should start an RfC, because there is a MoS guideline on nobility somewhere. I don't remember where. But there will be a problem. I am surprised they haven't noticed so far. Ottava Rima (talk) 14:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Sexuality

The exhibition 'Horace Walpole & Strawberry Hill' at the Victoria & Albert Museum, London 6th March - 4th July 2010 makes clear that he had a close and intimate friendship with Strawberry Hill's architect John Chute. From the catalogue - 'In Walpole's own bedroom there was a portrait of his closest friend John Chute'. Taken with the other evidence I think it is pretty conclusive that he was homosexual. 79.65.76.96 (talk) 21:31, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Walpole identified openly as a man romantically interested in other men. He described Eton as the place where he first fell in love, was almost certainly romantically connected to Thomas Gray during their adolescence and early twenties based on the contents of their letters [to each other and others] (prior to their notorious falling out after some months together on the Grand Tour), and joked cheerfully about being in love with his cousin Henry Conway. His letters to his friends also contain occasional bawdy jokes about anal sex. The current state of the article is at least implicitly homophobic in my eyes, given the emphasis on Walpole's relationship with his mother, and mention of his "effeminacy." I think a lot of this is drawn from the notoriously-bad "Great Outsider" biography. Walpole's relationships deserve a comprehensive rewrite from a 21st-century lens which doesn't automatically see gayness as a terrible secret needing to be uncovered.
It isn't unreasonable to speculate that he may have had a romantic connection with Chute some years after the death of Whithed, a mutual friend who was probably Chute's romantic partner prior to Whithed's early death (they lived together and their friends referred to them by the portmanteau "the Chutheds," and were critical of Whithed's failure to leave Chute a proper income after his death).
Less important than identifying exactly whom Walpole did or didn't have sex with is to make alterations to the article reflecting his (very open) queer identity, and his important position within eighteenth-century queer identity formation. Attentiveness to his bonds with other queer people is also vital to understanding the history of his literary production and political life (e.g. his collaboration with Thomas Gray on historiographic projects, and political support of Henry Conway).
This article hasn't gotten much attention in a while, but I hope to make some much-needed changes in the coming weeks. (Writing as an expert in c18 literature and Walpole, on the slight chance someone actually takes a look at this page sometime soon.) 2607:FEA8:56E0:2B1:49B3:6191:EC79:5A94 (talk) 17:45, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Well, I'd advise getting yourself a proper username. Continuing a thread here after a 13-year gap isn't really a good idea if you want to get attention! Don't forget you need to use British English, which as an expert in c18 literature and Walpole I'm sure you can handle. Johnbod (talk) 19:15, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Kotniski (talk) 09:46, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Horace Walpole, 4th Earl of Orford → Horace Walpole

This seems like a clear case when we should make an exception to the general naming guideliness and go with what is by far the most common name. Note that Walpole didn't inherit the peerage title from his nephew until he was 74 years old, 6 years before his death, and is almost never called by it. john k (talk) 01:06, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Support. Opera hat (talk) 01:36, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Portrait circa 1755 Van Dyck

I spotted an error in the caption for the portrait of Horace Walpole circa 1755. I'm new to the talk pages here at Wikipedia so I'm not quite sure if I'm highlighting this in the correct manner but please let me know if I should do otherwise. The portrait is from the Strawberry Hill collection (Strawberry Hill house appearing in the background of the painting), however it is not by Antony Van Dyck since he died in the 1600s. It's a painting by Eccardt, John Giles (British painter, d. 1779) and was painted in 1754. It is mentioned that the painting is from Van Dyck so that may be why the caption is incorrect. Further details of the portrait and its provenance can be found at The Lewis Walpole Library website. If someone can correct the caption that would be great. Ptkcollins (talk) 18:02, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

  • Well spotted. I have made the change; obviously it wasn't a Van Dyck painting and plenty of sources to confirm Eccardt as the painter, for example the National Portrait Gallery here FlowerpotmaN·(t) 18:58, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Meet Cousin Horatio

Horatio Walpole (1723-1809) by Pierre Subleyras, circa 1746.

The Subleyras portrait what graced this article from August 2011 to October 2012 as a likeness of Horace is actually of his cousin and successor Horatio Walpole. I was never at ease with this portrait, which shows no signs of Horry's delicate features. The summary of the image gives the location as unknown and takes us to a Russian site as the source, which further raised my hackles. Did a little sleuthing and came up with this site which correctly identifies it as being of Horatio and belonging to the Leeds Museums and Galleries. Several sources have it as currently hanging in Temple Newsam. Danny Sprinkle (talk) 17:43, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

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Distinguishing between the first 4th Earl of Orford and the second 4th Earl of Orford

Note that there are actually two people who are considered the 4th Earl of Orford:

And this auction for this piece of art with a picture of what seems to me the first 4th Earl of Orford confuses the birth and death years between them:

http://www.artnet.com/artists/pompeo-girolamo-batoni/a-gentleman-formerly-called-sir-horace-walpole-zeY4MZ1JqdNuVWrSlWVVSA2

Comparing the picture there with one in the article:

Horace Walpole by Rosalba Carriera

"H***** W*****" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect H***** W***** has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 7 § H***** W***** until a consensus is reached. Edward-Woodrow • talk 21:43, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

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