Talk:Honorific nicknames in popular music/Archive 6

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Eminem

I know Rap God was coined by himself but there are numerous interviews with critics and they agree that the self proclaimed nickname is more than suitable for him. I'd be willing to find the proper sources if someone is willing to edit this in there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.224.244 (talk) 03:26, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

-This is supposed to be an encyclopedia displaying facts and not the subjective views of fans. One of Wiki's rules is that of citing reliable sources for articles. In this case, they seem to have flouted it. While there is no consensus on who the "King of Hip-Hop" the closet reliable source I could find was MTV and they reckon it is JayZ. http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2006/emcees/41.76.66.11 (talk) 22:04, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

INCLUDE KATY PERRY!!!!!

If you wish to add an entry to the list on this article please make sure they meet the following criteria which have been agreed by editors:

• The names listed must be honorific and not just nicknames (e.g. "Queen of Soul" and not just "Pistol Pete") and must be a common alias of the artist (being widely regarded as the Father of a sub-genre is not the same as routinely being called, the Father of...)
• Only examples should be used where the title is used in the lede of the artist article.
• A clear, reliable and verifiable source must be provided that indicates widespread usage (e.g. "Elvis Presley, widely known as the King of Rock and Roll...". This means that it must be an actual title and cannot be a general reference or figure of speech. Appropriate sources include major authorities on popular music (including All music, Rolling Stone and NME, refereed books and journals, reputable national newspapers and appropriate specialist music publications. Self-published sources and the products of record companies are not considered reliable.

If you wish to discuss these criteria, please do so at the foot of this page.--Sabrebd (talk) 00:32, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Tony Iommi

Often called "The king of the heavy riff"

http://www.tonyiommifantastic.com/about-tony/quates-citations-iommi-ozzy-osbourne-geezer-butler-slash-hetfield-janick-gers-henry-rollins.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01b67wv

http://www.bravewords.com/news/207042

(talk)

Blink-182 as Kings of Pop-Punk

http://www.nicolefrehsee.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/R1073Blink182.pdf http://rollingstoneindia.com/pop-punk-kings-blink-182-reunited-and-ready-to-party-like-it%E2%80%99s-1999/

I found multiple sources claiming Blink-182 as the Kings of Pop-Punk. it seems fair to add them too, being that they've had such an impact on the genre's mainstream success in the early 2000s and nearly every pop-punk band lists blink as a major influence. --24.189.29.198 (talk) 08:04, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Girls' Generation as The Nation's Girl Group!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls%27_Generation

In South Korea, they are the country's #1 selling girl-group of all time. It seems pretty fair to put them on the list because TVXQ and BoA get to be on there. They have found international success as well. They peaked at #126 on the US Billboard 200, being the first South Korean group to do so. All nine of the members and their sub-unit Girls-Generation - TTS have found great success in many countries around the entire world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.238.202.16 (talk) 04:59, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Elvis is most commonly known as THE KING

Please add to Elvis Presley nicknames " THE KING" He is commonly referred to that in all types of media

Thank you

71.234.118.65 (talk) 01:38, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 3 October 2013

Please add the honorific nickname "President of Pop" to Justin Timberlake's section of the page, based on the name given by Jimmy Fallon at the 2013 MTV Video Music Awards. http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/08/25/justin-timberlake-wins-michael-jackson-video-vanguard-award-performance-video/ Scottnadeau (talk) 18:02, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Done. --Stfg (talk) 21:22, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Er... Don't we need to establish that he's widely recognized as the "President of Pop"? Jimmy Fallon offering up the title to hype his performance at the music awards hardly seems credible to me. Smokachu (talk) 10:57, 27 October 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.67.187.199 (talk)

Issue

'Ashford & Simpson of Hip-Hop' is generally a nickname, otherwise it would not have been referenced nor quoted in a publication by Grove Press. Furthermore, since Ashford & Simpson have been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame; are noted for having a continual partnership; and have been cited for being 'iconic songwriters,' (if you need references supporting this, I'll be happy enough to list them for you) the duo's name fits best with the partnership both Elliott and Timbaland shared throughout their careers, since both of them have also been producing and writing alongside each other. So why is it being removed? WillieLimpD (talk) 23:20, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Please read the criteria at the top of this page. This is not an honorific.--SabreBD (talk) 14:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

The reference and title follows the criteria. Therefore, it makes no sense why it was removed. WillieLimpD (talk) 16:14, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I do not understand what that means.--SabreBD (talk) 16:17, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean you don't understand? You don't understand the criteria? I just simply stated previously that the title 'Ashford & Simpson of Hip-Hop' was an honorific nickname, due to the fact that 'Ashford & Simpson' were cited as 'iconic' and 'legendary'; and the nickname being referenced by a well-known publication. Furthermore, it fits with the criteria. So again, why is it being removed? WillieLimpD (talk) 16:58, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

If I can interject here - perhaps just as relevant as whether it's honorific is whether it's notable in any way. I don't know if anyone other than that one book (We Gotta Get Out of This Place) has ever compared Timbaland and Missy Elliott to Ashford & Simpson - so it doesn't look an existing nickname being referenced, just a comparison being made. I think that's an issue that affects this entire article, by the way - there are a lot of seemingly non-notable nicknames here, among the valid ones. For instance, a throwaway line from that same book (someone clearly enjoyed that book) referring to five different artists and groups as "soul queens", has led to five separate entries in this article. Korny O'Near (talk) 21:31, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree in this case and on the general point. When I can find the determination I will attempt a long overdue cull.--SabreBD (talk) 21:50, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Actually, there are two other additional sources (aside from We Gotta Get Out of This Place) that cite Elliott and Timbaland as 'Ashford and Simpson of Hip-Hop.' Therefore, it is in fact an honorific nickname. WillieLimpD (talk) 00:30, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, even if there are additional sources, the notability of the nickname was only one of the objections to this particular inclusion. The others I can think of are that (1) the nickname only makes sense for the two together (the phrase "the Ashford of hip-hop", as the article had it, appears to have never been uttered by anyone ever), and (2) it's not really that honorific - the point of the comparison is that it's a male/female duo who have together produced, written and recorded a bunch of hit songs. There's no real value judgment implied there. Korny O'Near (talk) 02:25, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

That doesn't make any sense. As I said before, there are two additional (high-profiled & well-known) sources, and they happen to fit this article's criteria. Rolling Stone and The Daily Telegraph noted the nickname; so yes, this name has been uttered before besides We Gotta Get Out of This Place. WillieLimpD (talk) 02:33, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I guess you were right about the nickname existing outside of that book - but, as I noted, there are two other unrelated objections. Korny O'Near (talk) 02:37, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

The criteria does not exempt this type of nickname; it only exempts obvious nicknames such as 'Pistol Pete,' 'Patient Polly,' 'Hot Harry,' etc. alongside non-reliable references. "Ashford and Simpson of Hip-Hop," on the other hand is in fact an honorific nickname; acclaimed by the reliable sources (of which fits the criteria) I mentioned previously. It doesn't make any sense why it's being removed. WillieLimpD (talk) 03:29, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Just because something isn't an obvious nickname doesn't necessarily make it an honorific. There's also the third objection, which is that "Ashford and Simpson of Hip-Hop" may be an established nickname, but "Ashford of Hip-Hop" and "Simpson of Hip-Hop" are not. Korny O'Near (talk) 14:21, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Then the nickname would belong under 'Group titles' since it's being shared by more than one person. WillieLimpD (talk) 03:46, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

That would be... less objectionable, in my opinion. Korny O'Near (talk) 13:15, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Alright. Then it's settled, I guess. WillieLimpD (talk) 19:27, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Apart from the fact its trivial and not an honorific.--SabreBD (talk) 19:50, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

That's true - objectively speaking, there are various similarities between the careers of Missy Elliott and Timbaland and those of Ashford & Simpson. You don't have to like their music, or consider either one especially influential, to make that comparison. Therefore, it's not necessarily honorific. Korny O'Near (talk) 14:24, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Nevertheless, it's still acclaimed as an 'honorific nickname' by the various sources. WillieLimpD (talk) 21:14, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Is it? I do not see that in the only source that has been used so far. Can you give us links to the other sources please?--SabreBD (talk) 13:01, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I listed you guys the sources a few days ago. Did you not see my response? WillieLimpD (talk) 20:17, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

I may have missed it among all the posts, but I don't see a link to the pages.--SabreBD (talk) 21:13, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Apologies for the late reply, but yes I know I didn't list any links. The sources are primarily printed. WillieLimpD (talk) 21:45, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

The problem as I see it with both this request and on the page on the whole is... too many people think because someone has given an artist a title, or used a title the artist gave themselves, that it's an honorific nickname. Madonna's nickname of Material Girl, for example, is not honorific. While it can be argued that she did not give herself the name, as the widespread use of the tag came not from the song itself but from people's association between her and the song, it's not an honorific nickname. It is JUST a nickname.

The fact remains a nickname does not arise from one, or even several media outlets, saying something. Even if they're saying the same thing. It comes from time. From people. From a level of recognition amongst the industry and it's followers on the whole, not from just the people who write about it. Any journalist can make comparisons between current artists and artists of the past. I can't even begin to count how many times I've heard "The Rodgers and Hammerstein of...". While there is some honor in comparisons to successful artists, it's not applying a tag to them. It's not saying they're great. Only that they share similarities. Smokachu (talk) 18:58, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

The removal

Korny, why did you delete some of the nicknames from Missy's section? Those nicknames were not "one writer's turn of phrase" and they have been referred to other artists; as well as being cited by more than one source besides the "just one(s)" I listed. WillieLimpD (talk) 02:17, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Lorde?

Shouldn't Lorde be put on here since Billboard (and I think a couple other websites) refer to her as the "Queen of Alternative"? Or does that not count? Here's the article: http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/5687138/the-billboard-cover-story-lorde-the-new-queen-of-alternative 174.58.94.44 (talk) 14:52, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

One album doesn't make you "queen" of anything. I like her, but come on. These titles are for music LEGENDS! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.200.48 (talk) 03:52, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Big Four of Progressive Rock?

Is there a sourced, canonical list of the "Big Four (or Five, Six, whatever) of (Classic/British/70s) Prog", for example in Macan (which I don't have)? I've always known Yes, Genesis, ELP and King Crimson as the Big Four of Prog, but I've noticed that other people's lists are different, and our article Progressive rock adds Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull and The Moody Blues to expand the list to seven (based on Macan and others, see the edit notice). I've found that adding Floyd and Tull (but not the Moodies, who are seen more as a precursor of Classic Prog) indeed a common thing to do in general among fans, so perhaps the Big Six list is better to establish as canonical, if not as universally agreed on as the Big Four of Thrash. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:37, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Christina Aguilera

It is also referred to as the "Voice of the Generation". Source: http://music.terra.com/christina-aguilera-is-the-voice-of-a-generation,adf5b06dee6c9310VgnVCM4000009bcceb0aRCRD.html 187.75.111.66 (talk) 00:31, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

She is not known as the "voice of the generation", she got an award with that name. On those grounds several artists would be nicknamed "best newcomer".--SabreBD (talk) 12:13, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Mistress of Jazz

Voice of our generation

Queen of Reinvention Princess Of Latin Pop — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ignisfatuus22 (talk • contribs) 12:25, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Queen of Transformations/Reinvention

MTV declared her that a few times also.

Aguilera borrows from Madonna where it counts. Madonna is, of course, the undisputed Queen of reinvention. If she didn’t invent reinvention, mark her down for reinventor of reinvention. She’s done it all, but never taken a step back to revisit an old trend of her own, always moving forward on her own musical path even if it means borrowing from other artists of the past, present, and future. For her latest reinvention in 2005, she reached back to the cob-webbed dredges of late 1970s disco. Perhaps it’s time for her to hang up the pop cloak, because her protégé was ripe to one up her just a year later.

Aguilera is no stranger to reinvention. She’s miles behind Madonna, but she has twenty years to make up for it. In her seven years of world-wide fame, Aguilera has adopted three diverse, incongruous personalities, musical styles, fashion senses, and attitudes. She began as a sweet, innocent, girl-next-door teenager, then transformed into a lewd, feminist diva three years later. In 2005 she launched her second reinvention, appearing on red carpets styled after Jean Harlow and Marilyn Monroe. These blonde icons of the past were sexy in their own right, but far more respectable about it than Stripped-era Aguilera. By 2006 she had integrated this obsession with all things long bygone into her musical career. Not only did she admire the looks, she admired the sounds. Whether the music was bombastic or delicately subdued, the songs were inevitably bare, honest and raw. Stripped. Right, but this album is called Back to Basics instead.

References

Recent additions of Boy Dylan names

The multiple recent additions of names for Bob Dylan look to be just the sort of entry that I am trying to remove from the article in a clean up. It seems unlikely that all this names are actually nicknames and are more likely to be isolated metaphors. According to the criteria above there need to be quotes for each reference or a direct link to the text so that they can be verified. I have left them in the article for now to allow some time for these to be rectified.--SabreBD (talk) 19:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Jared Leto

I removed this entry because, on current evidence, it doesn't meet the criteria at the top of this page. It is one mention and it is not clear that is is a regular nickname. Just about every frontman of a rock band in the last forty years has been called a rock god.--SabreBD (talk) 22:32, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

The source is an article from Kerrang! called Rock Icons of the 21st Century, in which they described Leto as a Rock God accepted as a Rock God. It is a good source and there's no reason to remove him.--Earthh (talk) 14:24, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Except that this is an article about honorific nicknames - not descriptions, which is a very good reason for removing it. If you type "rock god" into google it is a long time before Leto turnes up.--SabreBD (talk) 14:50, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Whitney is The Voice!!!

Why was Whitney Houston's most notable nickname "The Voice" removed??? Whitney is known to be "The Voice", that is generally one of the most famous celebrity nicknames ever! That's why it use to be on the right side of the page along with Whitney's picture. It needs to be added back! — Preceding unsigned comment added by WhyHellWhy (talk • contribs) 02:03, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I removed it because the two sources given did not meet the criteria of the article. One did is behind a paywall and (according to an earlier assessment) did not meet verification. The other did not clearly enough meet the criteria. What is needed is a reliable source that says something like, "Whitney was widely known as 'the Voice'".--SabreBD (talk) 08:43, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Whitney Houston issue

I noticed that too, Whitney is often referred to as "The Voice". I tried to find a reliable source that confirms this nickname and haven't found one yet, i did however find an article that calls her "The Girl With The Golden Voice" and it reminded me of hearing a few people call her that on talk shows. I think it should be added to Whitney's nickname section. http://www.fabon5th.com/whitney-houston-the-girl-with-the-golden-voice/ 99.225.193.170 (talk) 22:09, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I found another article that calls her the name again except here they call her "The Woman With The Golden Voice" instead of "The Girl With The Golden Voice" http://cincomom.com/2012/02/12/the-woman-with-the-golden-voice-is-gone-whitney-houston-1963-2012/ 99.225.193.170 (talk) 22:16, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

http://connectnigeria.com/articles/2012/02/14/the-girl-with-the-golden-voice/ 99.225.193.170 (talk) 22:18, 9 December 2013 (UTC) http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Whitney-Houston-When-fame-and-fortune-claimed-anot-30176133.html http://www.zimbio.com/Whitney+Houston%27s+Most+Memorable+Style+Moments/articles/G5lKTKH2hzy/Golden+Girl http://www.zimbio.com/Whitney+Houston%27s+Most+Memorable+Style+Moments/articles/G5lKTKH2hzy/Golden+Girl 99.225.193.170 (talk) 22:22, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I will take another look and see if I can find anything that is definitive.--SabreBD (talk) 23:15, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I managed to find one and have added the entry back in with it. Although I should point out that this name is borderline as an honorific, the subject of this page.--SabreBD (talk) 08:40, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Hamasaki Ayumi ??? (Best selling female in Japan)

If Utada Hikaru and Amuro Namie are on the list, there's no reason Hamasaki Ayumi isn't. She's sold more albums than both of them (over 50 million), best-selling solo artist in Japan, has been around longer than Utada and a bigger impact on J-pop than Amuro... From Ayu's wikipedia page "Hamasaki's constantly changing image and tight control over her artistry has helped her popularity extend across Asia; music and fashion trends she has started have spread to countries such as China, Singapore, and Southeast Asia" as well as "Hamasaki is the first female singer to have eight studio albums since her debut to top the Oricon and the first artist to have a number-one album for 13 consecutive years since her debut.[10][11]". Also from her wiki page "Most Influential Japanese Singer in Asia".[38]", "setting a new record for most number-one singles held by a solo female artist", "Her foreign fanbase highly anticipated the concerts, and tickets for the Taipei and Hong Kong performances sold out in less than three hours.[74][75]" I could write an essay on all the records her Wikipedia page says shes broken. She's been called everything from the "Queen of J-pop", "Empress of Pop", "the real Japanese madonna", and many other flattering nicknames. If sources are needed there's no doubt I could find more than a few. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:7:1080:AA:88BA:AF29:E592:3C95 (talk) 01:47, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Sources are needed, preferably ones that say something like "she is known as the Queen of J-Pop". If you can find those an entry will be fine.--SabreBD (talk) 07:37, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Whitney

I found a few sources calling Whitney Houston "Queen Of Pop" ( http://news.hjnews.com/news/article_1293c6a4-5516-11e1-ae5a-0019bb2963f4.html http://www.hiphopweekly.com/2012/02/22/hip-hop-weekly-magazine-releases-special-edition-whitney-houston-a-tribute-to-the-queen-of-pop/ ) I do know that Madonna, Janet Jackson, and a few other artists have been called the "Queen Of Pop" as well, but I think that the name should also be added to Whitney Houston's section. The following sources called Whitney to be "Pop Queen" instead of "Queen of Pop" http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/pop-queen-whitney-houston-dies-at-48-1.1139348 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pop-queen-whitney-houston-dies-at-age-48/ 99.225.193.170 (talk) 23:39, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Whitney is incredible, but Madonna is the only Queen. No other female artist has accomplished what she has. No reputable sources call any other artist by this title. Love Whitney, but her career doesn't come close and her newer work was R&B not pop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.200.48 (talk) 03:51, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 December 2013

I would like to add Sarah Geronimo as one of the Pop Princess. She's in the Philippines. Here's the link of Sarah Geronimo in Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Geronimo Thank you! Ronron aguirre (talk) 07:30, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately the two sources given on her Wikipedia page for the nearest thing to that title do not seem to support it. Do you have any more reliable sources?--SabreBD (talk) 07:56, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I would like to add Sarah Geronimo as Popstar Princess. She's in the Philippines. Here are the links that support my request. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorific_nicknames_in_popular_music_in_the_Philippines http://sarahgeronimo.ph/blog http://sarahgeronimo.ph/blog/sarah-geronimo-a-pinoy-pride Ronron aguirre (talk) 23:23, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Those sources are not reliable and do not include the necessary text in support.--SabreBD (talk) 00:12, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2013

I would like to add Sarah Geronimo as Popstar Princess. She's in the Philippines. Here's the link that supports my request. http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/03/01/13/sarah-geronimo-marks-first-decade-pop-star-princess

From this link, she celebrated her first decade as the Popstar Princess in the Philippines. Ronron aguirre (talk) 00:57, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

• Recommend Decline. "Title" given by winning a competition, not because it is her commonly used alias. Also, the nickname not mentioned in the lede of the artist's Wikipedia article. There is the supporting statement in the reference, "Geronimo has achieved numerous firsts and milestones that have cemented her status as 'Pop Star Princess,'" but I still don't think it technically meets the criteria. —Josh3580_talk/hist 04:22, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. No competition granted Michael Jackson the title King of Pop, but you're not going to find anyone to argue its inclusion in this list. A Google search for the phrase "Popstar Princess" (and eliminating all the Barbie stuff) turns up nothing but Sarah Geronimo for quite a ways down the list. Given that and the news article cited by the requester, I've added this to the list. --ElHef (Meep?) 03:42, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Photos crowding tables

I like the photos, but on my computer they crowd the tables. That is, after the lead, then there are photos on the right with white space on the left, and below that all the tables. I think it would look best if the photos were somehow included with the tables. However, I don't know a good way to do that.

So here is what I think is the easiest fix. Since the photos are in alphabetical order, we put each photo with its letter. That is, any A's before the A section, the B's before the B section, etc. This way, there won't be so many photos before the tables begin.

But I won't proceed with this until there is a consensus here. DougHill (talk) 00:41, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

How the images show depends very much on the display used. For most displays the images show to the right of the tables. On very narrow displays, which is presumably what you have, they appear after the lead and before the tables. Putting them at the start of the relevant letter sections will probably mean that on narrow displays there the white space on the left is spread throughout the article. It will probably be less even for most displays, with some gaps on the right between picture (rather than at the end). We could always take a look and see how it works out.--SabreBD (talk) 07:26, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Madonna is the ONLY Queen of Pop.

Madonna is the highest selling female, biggest earning artist in the world (2013), and most successful solo touring artist. She is also the only one on the list who was officially been called this for 30 years and was reaffirmed it by Rolling Stone. All others with the title need to be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.200.48 (talk) 03:49, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Do you have a WP:RS for each of the five claims you make here? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:40, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

TVXQ are Kings of K-Pop, Asia's Star, K-Pop Royalty

TVXQ Asia's Star

• List item[1]
• List item[2]

K-Pop Royalty

• List item[3]
• List item[4]

Kings of K-Pop & Kings of the Hallyu Wave

• List item[5]
• List item[6]
• List item[7]
• List item[8] — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|ENyo iRISA (talk) 01:48, 3 January 2014 (UTC)]] comment added by ENyo iRISA (talk • contribs) 01:30, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

ENyo iRISA (talk) 01:48, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Focusing on just the reliable sources, none of this indicates that they are generally known by these nicknames. An award is not necessarily a nickname and one use of a metaphor in Billboard does not mean that a name is in general use.--SabreBD (talk) 09:56, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Carrie Underwood?

Carrie Underwood (if memory serves correctly) was on this list at one point in time. Over her decade of recording and releasing music, she's been called many things ranging from "(Reigning) Queen of Country" to the "All-American Girl" (from her success with the song). I would really like to see her on her somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.87.118.223 (talk) 03:22, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources that indicate those are common nicknames?--SabreBD (talk) 07:37, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Slim Burna

Multi Genre Musician is honorific because multi genre isn't really a term in music. However due to the artists' ability to handle different types of music, he's often regarded as Multi Genre Musician. You and I know it's not really a correct statement hence a honorific nickname.Al Gomez (talk) 20:45, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

I am afraid that it is not a honorific nickname. Honorifics tend to be titles or to copy titles. The article is also not evidence that this is in common use, which is needed for inclusion here.--SabreBD (talk) 21:30, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Eminem ?

Where's Eminem "King of hip hop"???, rolling stone crowned him that name

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/introducing-the-king-of-hip-hop-20110815?page=9

Well here's the source my friend 69.73.241.142 (talk) 12:49, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

It does not matter if Rolling Stone "crowned" someone with a name, what matters is that there is a reliable source that indicates clearly that they is commonly known by those titles. Rolling Stone's use of the title might start such a practice, but it is not evidence of it. If can find such reliable sources then by all means bring them here.--SabreBD (talk) 13:07, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Yea, Agree! Sure, wasn't it the same Rolling Stone magazine that tried take the crown from Michael Jackson, by self-appointing Justin Timberlake as the "New King of Pop", back in 2003!?! And I mean, they were actually cheeky enough to put the whole thing on their front cover - alongside a picture of Justin. It didn't work, however...People weren't having it...It just didn't stick.

-This is supposed to be an encyclopedia displaying facts and not the subjective views of fans. One of Wiki's rules is that of citing reliable sources for articles. In this case, they seem to have flouted it. While there is no consensus on who the "King of Hip-Hop" the closet reliable source I could find was MTV and they reckon it is JayZ. http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2006/emcees/41.76.66.11 (talk) 22:07, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

King of Hip Hop

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/introducing-the-king-of-hip-hop-20110815?page=9

Well here's the source my friend, eminem is king of hip hop 216.110.116.57 (talk) 22:35, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

N Not done; the article only lists commonly used titles and a reliable source. The Rolling Stone article only descibes a ranking they produced for their magazine. -- Diannaa (talk) 01:28, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

-This is supposed to be an encyclopedia displaying facts and not the subjective views of fans. One of Wiki's rules is that of citing reliable sources for articles. In this case, they seem to have flouted it. While there is no consensus on who the "King of Hip-Hop" the closet reliable source I could find was MTV and they reckon it is JayZ. http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2006/emcees/41.76.66.11 (talk) 22:08, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

I would like to add one, Sheryn Regis as Crystal Voice of Asia. She's in the Philippines. Here are the links that support my request. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorific_nicknames_in_popular_music_in_the_Philippines http://sherynregis.ph/blog http://sherynregis.ph/blog/sheryn-regis-a-pinoy-pride Ronron aguirre (talk) 23:23, 20 December 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.198.79.86 (talk)

Prince...

...His Royal Badness and The Artist — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.31.183.138 (talk) 10:01, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Madonna.

Madonna has many more titles that the media have bestowed upon her.

'The Material Girl' has been one of her main titles for the last 29 years.

'The Dancing Queen' or the 'Queen of Dance'. - often referred to as the dancing queen by the media especially when talking about her concert tours.

'Greatest woman in music'- she has been named this by a number of publications, most notably VH1 in 2012

'The Queen of controversy' this has been a title associated with Madonna, her music and her videos for years

'The Queen of all media'

'Queen of Disco' - the title has occasionally been used but is usually left for Donna Summer. However, a number of artist in the list have a title as the Queen of pop so I don't see why there can't be more than one artist with the Queen of Disco title.

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.0.145.6 (talk) 21:05, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

References

Add Eminem to E

Eminem needs to be added under E due to him being named The King of Hip Hop by the Rolling Stone

CFP2016 (talk) 01:08, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Done Cannolis (talk) 01:43, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Sorry but it does not meet the criteria at the top of this article. A one of mention is not sufficient, it needs to be a widespread nickname. Preferably a source should say something like "Eminem, widely known as the "king of hip hop".--SabreBD (talk) 16:37, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

-This is supposed to be an encyclopedia displaying facts and not the subjective views of fans. One of Wiki's rules is that of citing reliable sources for articles. In this case, they seem to have flouted it. While there is no consensus on who the "King of Hip-Hop" the closet reliable source I could find was MTV and they reckon it is JayZ. http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2006/emcees/41.76.66.11 (talk) 22:11, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

What is going on with the formatting?

All the photos for the page seem to somehow have got stuck at the top of the "A" section, and appear in one long vertical stream, single file, aligned hard right... and the first one is James Brown (aka the Godfather of Soul ;), who therefore isn't even in the right section. Got a feeling this isn't how it's supposed to look. Any ideas? 193.63.174.211 (talk) 17:38, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

It is because you have a narrow display. On a wide or normal display they will be fine.--SabreBD (talk) 18:28, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

gram parsons

Gram Parsons "father of country-rock" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.127.153.11 (talk) 22:38, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 April 2014

Please change Cher nickname to goddess of pop instead of queen of reinevention.

2601:E:9300:46C:9DAB:B19D:7F81:4796 (talk) 03:22, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 03:48, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 May 2014

Please add Double (singer) as the 'Queen of Japanese R&B'[9][10], and 'Queen of Japanese Hip-Hop'[11] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.239.132.214 (talk) 08:54, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

The first two sources are clearly not reliable, the last one might be, but it could be clearer. Do you have any additional reliable sources?--SabreBD (talk) 10:20, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

The Clash

Commonly referred to as "The Only Band That Matters," though more often in print than aloud (you can still see older rock critics using it, when they want people to think they were one of the cool kids in high school). The honorific is, in fact, in common enough usage that it is included in Wikipedia's introductory section in The Clash's article. I'd suggest adding it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.78.149.130 (talk) 10:10, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

In what sense is this a honorific? It just looks like a nickname to me.--SabreBD (talk) 10:20, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

The Only Band That Matters means quite literally "the only band worthy of listening to or discussing." As far as honorifics go, it's saying, all honorifics are pointless- the Clash are qualitatively so superior, the rest of popular music is irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.78.149.130 (talk) 10:40, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

I would also add, the only difference between it, and James Brown's appellation of "The Hardest Working Man in Show Business" (which describes the intensity of his stage shows as the most energetic) is that this appellation is several orders of magnitude more intense. It would suggest Brown's accomplishment is extraneous, and not worth discussing.

Contrast Bruce Springsteen's nickname "The Boss." Rather than an honorific it was originally a sometimes unflattering nickname from his early days relating to the fact that Springsteen routinely handled business matters for bands he was in (booking gigs, collecting pay from clubs and dispersing it to band mates, making sure everyone got to gigs on time) and was quite literally viewed as the boss (ie the supervisor) by fellow band mates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.78.149.130 (talk) 18:53, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

This is not a good example for your case, as it clearly changed its meaning to become honorific.--SabreBD (talk) 07:08, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

How clearly? Because fans don't know that it is a mere nickname? And one he doesn't like? But use it ignorantly in a way the recipient considers vaguely insulting? Read the Wikipedia article on Springsteen.

Regardless, the phrasing of The Only Band That Matters, is nigh on identical to the phrasing of The Hardest Working Man in Show Business, with superior connotations of importance and excellence. I suggest if you don't include it, that the Hardest Working Man in Show Business is a mere nickname as well (which is absurd and stupid).

You are, in fact, making a common misreading of what constitutes an honorific. I suggest reading Wikipedia's article on the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.78.149.130 (talk) 04:30, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

To be clear, you seem to only allow, with a few vague exceptions Styles of Nobility (which are not honorifics, by the way) to be counted. The Wikipedia article on honorifics will tell you why you are wrong on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.78.149.130 (talk) 04:35, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

I found the only person who can be included on this list using a proper narrow reading of Honorifics. Bruce Springsteen (once known as the Doctor no longer counts as he is now known as the Boss). Rev. Run of Run DMC has Reverend before his stage name. Let us forget that it is an actual honorific (he is in fact a Reverend, Doctor, Lawyer, Mr., Mrs. or so forth). The narrow definition excludes all Style of Nobility and other marks of respect and admiration and would tighten the list down to him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.78.149.130 (talk) 04:50, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Eminem? King of Hip Hop?

It seems like discussions in the Talk page confirmed that this is NOT valid. As a hip-hop enthusiast, Eminem as the "King of Hip Hop" is an absolute joke, and perpetuated by Eminem fans. Rolling Stone's depiction of "dominant albums sales, YouTube views, and social-media scores," is subjective. If you say "The King of Pop," we all know who you're talking about. If you ask a hip-hop fan, "Who is the King of Hip-Hop?" They're likely to name their favorite rapper. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maxxramman (talk • contribs) 01:13, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

You make a good point. I have removed it again. The title of a Rolling Stone article is not sufficient to indicate that this is a widely used title.--SabreBD (talk) 07:07, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

-Please remove this once and for all. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia displaying facts and not the subjective views of fans. One of Wiki's rules is that of citing reliable sources for articles. In this case, they seem to have flouted it. While there is no consensus on who the "King of Hip-Hop" the closet reliable source I could find was MTV and they reckon it is JayZ. http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2006/emcees/41.76.66.11 (talk) 22:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Additions to H removed last year?

Today, I discovered that Kiyoshi Hikawa had an established nickname and was not on this list. I also knew I had added Kohmi Hirose to this list in the past, but I saw that her entry was missing and deleted in this pruning because it allegedly failed verification despite the fact the translation of the title in the article was given in the list entry. I've restored Hirose's entry on this list, as a search of Google for 冬の女王 (ignoring all the results for Frozen now for some reason) shows Hirose as the subject. I've also restored Ayumi Hamasaki's entry, as the title is still shown as "Empress of Pop" (despite the fact the article is now behind a paywall). And I've added Kiyoshi Hikawa to the list as "Prince of the Enka World" as presented in the source provided.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 00:29, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2014

Please add Jenni Rivera, Mexican-American singer that was known to her fans as "La Diva de la Banda" translated "The Diva of Banda" 108.194.50.210 (talk) 20:45, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

@108.194.50.210: Please provide sourcing ((WP:Reliable sources) and where you want to add that information. --JustBerry (talk) 21:18, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

References

T.I. is "King of the South"

It's a well-known fact that T.I. and his fans refer to him as the "King of the South" If you're talking about "King of the South" in a hip-hop context, everybody knows who you're talking about.

Hell, he even has a song titled "King of the South" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08k3XYDhR6s — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.230.99 (talk) 16:36, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

THE KING OF REGGAE BOB MARLEY

Bob Marley is the King of Reggae

188.177.148.112 (talk) 22:21, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Thanks, Older and ... well older (talk) 00:21, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

JENNIFER LOPEZ a.k.a. The Dancing Queen, Empress of Pop, Queen of Comeback

Jennifer Lopez has proven to be an unstoppable force throughout her career. As a dancer, actress, singer, producer, designer, and entrepreneur Jennifer Lopez continues to grow as an artist and will always remain a pop culture phenomenon. In the articles and websites I have provided, Jennifer Lopez is noted as the Dancing Queen, Pop Empress, and Comeback Queen, Please consider adding Jennifer Lopez and her honorific nicknames for her contributions in music.

http://variety.com/2013/scene/features/jennifer-lopez-receives-star-for-music-on-hollywood-walk-of-fame-1200493728/

http://momzinthemix.com/uncategorized/daily-momz-jennifer-lopez-the-dancing-queen

http://www.accuracast.com/news/search-7471/greatest-musical-comeback-search/

http://sojo1049.com/jennifer-lopez-comeback-queen-according-to-new-poll-video/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.18.12.67 (talk) 06:40, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Not done: these sources are not reliable or do not support the assertion that these are widely used nicknames.--SabreBD (talk) 07:22, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

References

Flags

Under WP:WORDPRECEDENCE, MOS:FLAGBIO and the section of MOS:ICON about "Inappropriate use" of flags, the flags on this page seem wildly out of conformance with the Manual of Style for Wikipedia. I'm hoping to generate a consensus here to that effect, before editing the page. Please review MOS:ICON and opine here about whether my view makes sense. David in DC (talk) 20:59, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes agreed.--SabreBD (talk) 19:53, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

What do you think should be done. Trying to remove all of these would be very, very labor intensive. Is this the sort of thing a bot might do, if a request were put in? More importantly, is two people agreeing enough to justify changing the long-standing, but total MOS violations here? David in DC (talk) 22:08, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Lisa Lisa has been named the Queen of Latin Hip Hop by VIBE Magazine

Please add Lisa Lisa as the Queen of Latin Hip Hop because she was listed with this title in various articles such as

Vibe: http://www.vibe.com/article/latin-hip-hop-legend-lisa-lisa-fights-breast-cancer-mama-luke

BlogCritics: http://blogcritics.org/interview-lisa-lisa-lisa-velez-the/

Latina.com: http://www.latina.com/blogs/sound-check/can-you-feel-beat-lisa-lisa-back-new-album

— Preceding unsigned comment added by RicanMangu (talk • contribs) 16:24, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

So its not a general nickname. Just a one off thing in a magazine.--SabreBD (talk) 20:04, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Kyary Pamyu Pamyu as "J-Pop Princess" or "Harajuku Pop Princess"

Hi there, this is a submission to see if Japanese entertainer Kyary Pamyu Pamyu should be listed as "J-Pop Princess" and/or "Harajuku Pop Princess"? Links:

MTV: http://www.mtvhive.com/2013/04/16/kyary-pamyu-pamyu-new-york-photos/#/0 Popdust: http://popdust.com/2013/05/12/j-pop-princess-kyary-pamyu-pamyu-finally-does-dubstep/ MUSICmaster1 (talk) 09:33, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Beyonce

Queen B / Queen Bey counts, I think

References

Van Morrison

Van Morrison is commonly called Van "The Man" Morrison. I consider calling somebody "The Man" to be honorific. He is much more wide known and commonly called by that name than most of the people on this list are with their respective names. He was given the name by Robbie Robertson as evidenced by this video around the 4:50 mark and is referenced as Van "The Man" in nearly every article written about him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.64.177.75 (talk) 16:32, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

References

Janet Jackson is the Queen of Pop

On November 7, 2014 Janet Jackson was officially voted and crowned the Queen Of Pop by Vh1.

/>

98.163.212.225 (talk) 04:11, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

References

Bob Marley the King of Reggae

I think bob marley is the king of reggae, he is the greatest reggae singers in the world, many of his songs are about love and peace, even today there are many young people who hear his music, I just think there is incredible, he has influenced as many artist

so please answers

Add "Lata Mangeshkar" in "M"

We need to add the greatest Indian singer ever - rightly called "The Nightingale Of India"

Please refer to Lata Mangeshkar wiki page.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3696042.stm

and many others

Big Joe Turner

The late blues shouter Big Joe Turner (1911-1985), whose long career spanned both the heyday of jazz and swing as well as the rock & roll era (he is a member of the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame) was commonly known by the honorific "The Boss of the Blues" ( as he is referenced by the R&RHOF on its website. https://rockhall.com/inductees/big-joe-turner/ ) I would have added this to the page in question, except that it is locked. Please add this to the list, if possible.)

Source: https://rockhall.com/inductees/big-joe-turner/ and others.

Pdeck2013 (talk) 17:19, 25 December 2014 (UTC) Pdeck2013

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2014

Bob Marley --- King of Reggae --- Jamaica

I think that should be apart of this 72.252.27.128 (talk) 02:49, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 13:15, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Katy perry

Why Katy Perry is not on the list? It is considered the queen of pop or at least pop princess Shooky 123 Talk • 15:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2015

|- |Roy Acuff as he is in fact a country singer however he is not named the king of country music</ref> |- |- |Garth Brooks || as he is in fact a country singer however he is not named the king of country music </ref> |- |- |George Strait || as he is in fact a country singer and he is named "the king of country music" </ref> |- RobsPalace (talk) 22:19, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Not done: the first two statements are sourced, so will not be removed, whereas your third suggestion is not sourced, so will not be added.
Please cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 14:46, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Big Four Garage Rock Revivalists

Should we include the 2000s group (as in, The Strokes, The White Stripes, The Hives and The Vines) known as the Big Four Garage Rock Revivalists? If so, I have a source!

http://lostmedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Strokes_Album_%22Angles%22_(Missing_2010s_Demo_Tracks)

It's in the opening paragraph. 98.195.99.11 (talk) 23:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorry but it is not a reliable source.--SabreBD (talk) 19:04, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Request for Consensus on 17th April 2015

Honouring Paul Whiteman as the "King of Jazz" is a complete travesty and absolutely diminishes the credibility of Wikipedia as a whole. Paul Whiteman, while financially successful, is a much maligned and ridiculed figure in the world of Jazz. This is a POV shared by both fans like myself and by music critics alike. This is really a joke.

Here are a few sources to prove my point:

1."Ultimately, though, it's all about the music. Whiteman may have been a pretty good bandleader and a decent enough guy.. But what's relegated him to a footnote in jazz history is....the simple fact that his music didn't inspire the same passionate following as peers like Armstrong or Ellington or Goodman. He's not widely recognized today because his music didn't move enough people to keep it alive." http://www.allaboutjazz.com/louis-armstrong-and-paul-whiteman-two-kings-of-jazz-by-joel-roberts.php

2.http://jazztimes.com/articles/16513-louis-armstrong-and-paul-whiteman-two-kings-of-jazz-joshua-berrett

3. "To critics and historians, however, popularity is anathema, and their backlash shredded Whiteman's reputation. Nowadays he's a joke." http://www.jazz.com/music/2008/4/5/paul-whiteman-i-m-coming-virginia

4. "The music establishment sought out a syncopationally challenged bandleader by the comically apt name of Paul Whiteman and designated him “the King of Jazz"http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1996/04/29/the-african-american-century

5. "That brief but horrible period when Paul Whiteman foisted something called symphonic Jazz on the public. Whiteman did not have too much effect on the history of Jazz" Pg 3. http://www.amazon.com/Deep-River-Renaissance-Thought-Americanists/dp/0822325918

These are just snippets on the critical outrage about the legacy of one Mr. Paul Whiteman. In terms of technique, arrangement, ability, improvisation, innovation, etc the man was a complete talentless hack. I am extremely surprised more Jazz aficionados have not spoken out on this outrageous article. It is completely inaccurate and misleading in all sense of it.

The purpose of Wikipedia is not to perpetuate historical inaccuracies or for social conditioning, but to correct them and advance knowledge. For the sake of Wikipedia's reputation I suggest the editor (s) concerned remove this entry right away. DanJazzy (talk) 10:40, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Amortias (T)(C) 17:36, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

The change Iam requesting is that Paul Whiteman should be removed as the "King of Jazz". The explanation and sources cited are listed above. Thank you. DanJazzy (talk) 00:43, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 00:50, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't get it. The goalposts keep changing. This is in fact very odd. It's quite simple really, I have requested a change in the article and provided credible sources that support my proposed change.

In that regard, I have fulfilled the Wiki policy on edit requests. Further, this odd "consesus" requirement was not decided the first time I made this post. I was only required to quote "mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format". Please clarify.DanJazzy (talk) 01:57, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Amortias (T)(C) 16:47, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

I have done as you requested. I hope we can now move on to the discussion and avoid unnecessary filibustering. I have articulated my reasons for requesting that Paul Whiteman be removed from this entry. I have included appropriate credible sources and I have many more. I invite contributions.DanJazzy (talk) 18:34, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

The issue is not whether he deserved the title, but whether he was called it. Multiple reliable sources indicate that he was called it.--SabreBD (talk) 21:01, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Agree. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:04, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Right. So that's all it takes is it?

Let's see; When Jazz first came out it was variously referred to as "primitive, barbaric, jungle rhythms". In fact Jazz was banned in Nazi Germany on October 10th 1935, for this very reason! Many agreed with them. In Denmark, Olaf Sobys wrote 'Jazz Versus European Musical Culture' (1935) arguing: 'Jazz was not born in nor has it ever been integrated into European culture. It was introduced from the violent need of a primitive race for rhythmic ecstasy and cannot grow organically here. It represents mankind's lowest bestial instincts. Jungle jazz rhythm is an expression of the primitive Negro's erotic ecstasy... The fact that we tolerate this sort of thing indicates our culture's decline.......... SOURCE: http://www.amazon.com/Swing-Under-Nazis-Metaphor-Freedom/dp/0815410751 (Page 177)

By your logic then, it is perfectly alright for Wikipedia to describe Jazz using the prevalent adjectives of the 1920's and 30's. After all, according to you, "the issue is not whether he deserves the title, but whether he was called it". That is clearly faulty reasoning.

Like I said before (and my sources prove it), Paul Whiteman's "King of Jazz" title was a gross historical aberration that most Jazz fans and critics agree should not have happened. I am a Jazz aficionado and an amateur clarinet player and I can tell you for a fact that Mr. Paul Whiteman, to put it bluntly, was the Kenny G of the 1920's. There is no sane person today who would say Kenny G is "King of Jazz" In fact I am not sure what he does is Jazz-although he got very rich doing it.

Bottom line? Historical inaccuracies should not be perpetuated by Wikipedia, you should instead correct these mistakes for posterity. DanJazzy (talk) 01:18, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done: Requesting editor unwilling to gain consensus Amortias (T)(C) 17:31, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

This smacks of Tendentious editing, and is unnaceptable. My valid points are NOT being addressed and this discussion has degenerated into straw man arguments and smug ad-hominem responses. Apparently, to you "consensus" means that I must agree with you. NOT acceptable. Since there is an impasse, I have no choice but to seek Wikipedia:DRR on this very important matter.DanJazzy (talk) 20:25, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done: First off, your account has been autoconfirmed for a few days now, so technically speaking you have the access to make the edit yourself and the {{edit semi-protected}} template is no longer necessary. Past that, I'm closing this edit request as a procedural matter and make no comment as to the merits of the request itself. The fact that there are multiple DR requests regarding this discussion pretty clearly defines it as a controversial request which can't be completed via edit request. If a clear consensus emerges to make the change, then by all means do so. Thanks, --ElHef (Meep?) 02:43, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

You're indeed correct. I've made two DR requests which have both been rejected by the same editor who however noted..."While the requesting editor has made extensive talk page remarks, there has been very little, and even less of substance, from other editors"......... I have opened a request for comments below this page. I hope there will be a better response there.DanJazzy (talk) 22:20, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2015

It appears absurd to me that Bob Marley is not included in this category. In any case, I will substantiate the obvious:-

-http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/20/movies/a-documentary-on-bob-marley-from-kevin-macdonald.html?_r=0

-http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/guitar-legend-les-paul-dies-aged-94-1771597.html?action=gallery&ino=4

-http://repeatingislands.com/2015/02/02/bob-marley-led-globalization-of-reggae/

-http://listverse.com/2012/01/10/top-10-greatest-reggae-singers/

I hope this anomaly will be rectified as soon as possible

DanJazzy (talk) 10:42, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Amortias (T)(C) 17:38, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

The change Iam requesting is that Bob Marley should be included as a new entry i.e. as the "King of Reggae". The explanation and sources cited are listed above. Thank you.DanJazzy (talk) 00:45, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Your third source just mentions "Stephen King"? And you fourth source says "Brown, acknowledging Marley as the king of reggae, took the title of the Crown Prince of Reggae" - so that was just Brown? But the first two sources look fine to me. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:35, 17 April 2015 (UTC) ... and I think Rita might agree with you.

Thanks for your prompt response. Actually, the third source says in part "Bob Marley was the person most responsible for the globalization of Reggae music"-emphasis on most responsible. The fourth source is a ranking of the greatest Reggae artists and Bob Marley is No. 1. The source goes on in part "The name of Bob Marley has become synonymous with Reggae, and he remains the most well-known musician in the genre." I am glad you agree with my proposal and my two other sources. This should be enough to merit the inclusion of Bob Marley as indeed the King of Reggae. Let's see what others think. Cheers. DanJazzy (talk) 18:13, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't see how this can really be disputed, so I am happy to add him, with those two sources. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:33, 17 April 2015 (UTC) [12]

Thanks! DanJazzy (talk) 18:46, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17th April 2015

A consensus has been established on this page (see discussions No.27, 28, 31, 37) that Eminem is not the "King of Hip-Hop".

Suggested change is remove Eminem as King of Hip Hop and replace with Jay Z.

Source MTV: http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2006/emcees/ DanJazzy (talk) 18:59, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

It seems that Enimen should indeed be removed, yet again, as per User:Sabrebd and others. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:40, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Done There seems to be a problem with that source you've provided for Jay Z. If you have further sources for Jay Z you could present them here. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:42, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I don't see the problem with the source. I presume Music Televison (MTV) would be an authoritative source on these matters? But then again I might be wrong, I am not American and don't know the influence of MTV these days. I understand they don't play music at all anymore.But then again, this article "Kings of Hip-Hop" is from 2006 when MTV still played music videos. Maybe others could weigh in on this DanJazzy (talk) 20:05, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Does that source contain the phrase "King of Hip Hop"? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:29, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

It does say "unveiling the Kings". Having said that, I dislike that JayZ character immensly anyway. If it was up to me the King of Hip-Hop would be either Tupac Shakur (#2 in the MTV article)or Notorious B.I.G. (#3 in the said article) However, my personal opinion doesn't matter here. I can't find any other sources for JayZ apart from that MTV article. In a more recent article, MTV cites Kendrick Lamar http://www.mtv.com/specials/hottest/mc/index.jhtml reflecting the fluid, dynamic and ultimately subjective nature of the Hip-Hop genre. Perhaps we could let the matter rest.DanJazzy (talk) 00:49, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

What a good idea. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:43, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Queen of Rap

Can you please add Nicki Minaj as the Queen of Rap? She has been called the queen of rap or hip hip by multiple publications, and even if you google "Who is the queen of rap?" her name and wikipedia page pops up. Thank you.

Rolling Stone has had an article calling her the Queen of Rap,: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-new-queen-of-hip-hop-20101209 http://www.rap-up.com/2011/05/23/nicki-minaj-reacts-to-queen-of-hip-hop-title-video/

Nicki Minaj is referred to as the Queen of Hip Hop in this Billboard article: http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/the-juice/6538595/meek-mill-nicki-minaj-dating-jail

DailyMail (UK): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2775953/Reigning-Queen-Of-Rap-Nicki-Minaj-takes-place-throne-announces-ll-host-MTV-European-Music-Awards-20th-anniversary-celebrations.html

V Magazine: http://www.vmagazine.com/site/content/3284/queen-of-rap

VH1 refers to her as the "Rap Queen" http://www.vh1.com/music/tuner/2014-12-16/nicki-minaj-best-verses/

MTV European Music Awards referred to her as the "Madonna of hip hop" (Madonna is the Queen of Pop): http://tv.mtvema.com/artists/nicki-minaj/scn6ha Xothinkpink (talk) 19:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC) _xothinkpink

You need to provide sources. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:09, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

That second source relates to the title "Queen of Hip Hop" that she herself does not think is deserved: "While flattered by the honor, she doesn’t feel entitled. “I’m honored because I obviously have been working hard to get to this place,” she continued. “Whether or not I’m the queen of anything, everybody’s gonna have their own opinion and I don’t do this thinking I’m the queen of this, I’m the queen of that. I just feel like I’m working hard and I just want people to recognize that.” Martinevans123 (talk) 17:47, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

The Daily Mail is generally considered not to be a WP:RS. That last source just says "Like a hip-hop Madonna", that's all. But the Rolling Stone and Billboard look ok for "Queen of Hip Hop " and V Magazine and VH1 look ok for "Queen of Rap" (although that last says "Rap Queen (at least of 2014)"), unless anyone else has objections. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:05, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Kharkiv07^Talk 13:18, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

RFC re Paul Whiteman

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Should Paul Whiteman be honoured with "King of Jazz" title?DanJazzy (talk) 22:06, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

My submission is that while Mr. Paul Whiteman, was a financially successful artist, he remains a much maligned and ridiculed figure in the world of Jazz. This is a view shared by both fans of the genre and by music critics alike.

Here are a few sources to prove my point: 1."Ultimately, though, it's all about the music. Whiteman may have been a pretty good bandleader and a decent enough guy.. But what's relegated him to a footnote in jazz history is....the simple fact that his music didn't inspire the same passionate following as peers like Armstrong or Ellington or Goodman. He's not widely recognized today because his music didn't move enough people to keep it alive." http://www.allaboutjazz.com/louis-armstrong-and-paul-whiteman-two-kings-of-jazz-by-joel-roberts.php 2.http://jazztimes.com/articles/16513-louis-armstrong-and-paul-whiteman-two-kings-of-jazz-joshua-berrett 3. "To critics and historians, however, popularity is anathema, and their backlash shredded Whiteman's reputation. Nowadays he's a joke." http://www.jazz.com/music/2008/4/5/paul-whiteman-i-m-coming-virginia 4. "The music establishment sought out a syncopationally challenged bandleader by the comically apt name of Paul Whiteman and designated him “the King of Jazz"http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1996/04/29/the-african-american-century 5. "That brief but horrible period when Paul Whiteman foisted something called symphonic Jazz on the public. Whiteman did not have too much effect on the history of Jazz" Pg 3. http://www.amazon.com/Deep-River-Renaissance-Thought-Americanists/dp/0822325918

In terms of technique, arrangement, ability, improvisation, innovation and overall artistic merit, Mr. Whiteman does not merit the title "KIng of Jazz". I request for submissions from as many contributors as possible. Thanks. DanJazzy (talk) 22:12, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

I am not sure how to convey this point again in a way that makes it clearer, but we are not "honouring" Paul Whiteman with a title. We do not give out titles in this article. We are not a central depositary for titles. All we do is note where there has been widespread use of an honorific nickname on the basis of reliable sources. Your own submissions indicate that this was the case in this example. Whether they are valid (whatever that means) or how they are later regarded is really not important in that process. Just try to imagine what this talkpage would look like if we started trying to justify every nickname, because, if you think about it, almost none of them are beyond being contested.--SabreBD (talk) 07:31, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

• One could make an argument that if a single, obscure source casually labeled someone with an honorific, it would be undue emphasis to include such a listing in this article. However, this doesn't seem to be the case here. Wikipedia doesn't decide whether someone is worthy of their honorific or not. The criteria listed at the top of this talk page contradict Wikipedia policy in several glaring ways, but Sabrebd is correct in his post above. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:34, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2015

Nicki Minaj Princess of Hip-Hop (New)Queen of Rap Young Money's First Lady Lsrichardson29 (talk) 23:11, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Stickee (talk) 00:04, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2015

JoJo | Former Teen Queen | BloBlax2vowelsispassword (talk) 20:30, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Also, there are at least eight different singers called "JoJo" with an article at Wikipedia - which one did you mean? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:33, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2015

68.191.84.95 (talk) 09:34, 4 June 2015 (UTC) Toni Braxton - Queen of R&B

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 10:16, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

D'Angelo - 'Jesus of R&B'/'R&B Jesus'

D'Angelo, upon the release of his legendary 2000 album Voodoo and since, with his third entry Black Messiah (the title of which only served to increase the usage of said term) was given the nickname by critics, journalists and fans alike of "R&B Jesus" or "Jesus of R&B", most famously by the 'Dean of Rock'n'Roll Critics', Robert Christgau (see above source website, an article from a 2000 Village Voice issue).

I think we can all agree upon D'Angelo's legendary status in the R&B world, and the phantom-like nature of his profile legitimize the nickname considerably.

Hopefully the addition of this entry will be considered and implemented.

125.237.88.2 (talk) 11:11, 9 July 2015 (UTC)E Cina125.237.88.2 (talk) 11:11, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

References

Queen/King of Fado + King + World Music Diva

Portuguese singer Amália Rodrigues is considered the Queen of Fado. http://blitz.sapo.pt/amalia-morreu-ha-15-anos-recorde-a-vida-da-rainha-do-fado=f93894 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am%C3%A1lia_Rodrigues

Portuguese singer Carlos do Carmo is considered the King of Fado. "If Amália was the queen of Fado, you can call Carlos do Carmo the king. His is the most successful male voice in Fado, releasing albums since the 1960s. Although his Fado is classic, some also find a jazzy sound and Frank Sinatra style in many of his songs." http://www.lisbonlux.com/fado/

Portuguese singer Fernando Maurício is considered the King of Fado and Mouraria. "Considerado o maior fadista da sua geração, possuidor de uma das mais originais vozes de Fado, a sua vasta carreira fez dele Rei do Fado e da Mouraria." http://www.museudofado.pt/personalidades/detalhes.php?id=301

Portuguese singer Mariza is considered the World Music Diva. "O jornal britânico The Guardian considerou-a «uma diva da música do mundo»." https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariza

Partly done: I did not add Mariza as we cannot use references to Wikipedia (or other language Wikipedias) as reliable sources, and the quote is not sourced at pt:Mariza. I have added the others. I would be grateful if you could provide a translation of the quote for Maurício. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:30, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Judas Priest - The Metal Gods

I'd be grateful for someone to add Judas Priest as "Metal Gods", as far as I know Rob Halford even applied for it as a trademark. 193.25.0.10 (talk) 19:23, 18 July 2015 (UTC)--EzPz

Lil' Kim Titles

The media has given Lil'Kim more titles than just Queen Bee.

She has been Called Queen of Hip-Hop, Queen of Rap, and Queen of the Game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi_Zu1Vvq2c — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.69.126.12 (talk) 16:30, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Ronnie James Dio

Often called the Father or Godfather of Power Metal, sometimes even the Godfather of Heavy Metal. Does anyone concur with this addition? --Ifrit (Talk) 17:57, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Jolin Tsai

Jolin Tsai should be added to this list as the Queen of Mandopop. She is an icon in the Asian music industry and has won numerous Taiwanese awards for her albums, singles, music videos and movies.

http://introtomandopop.tumblr.com/post/50498864807/artist-of-the-week-jolin-tsai%E8%94%A1%E4%BE%9D%E6%9E%97-the-dancing http://www.tnp.sg/m/music/newly-minted-mandopop-queen-jolin-tsai-exhilarated-golden-melody-wins

http://time.com/3594643/jolin-tsai-play-music-video/

http://onehallyu.com/topic/173323-appreciation-praise-the-queen-of-c-pop-jolin-tsai/

Lana Del Rey

Lana Del Rey is the queen of Indie, please add it. 2000nic (talk) 11:33, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -- Sam Sailor ^Talk! 12:08, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Read

Lil' Kim new honorific name should be Queen of Rap,

my sources: http://globalgrind.com/2015/05/12/lil-kims-transformation-photos/ http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lil+kim http://giphy.com/posts/happy-birthday-to-the-queen-of-rap-lil-kim http://hiphopdx.com/news/id.26524/title.lil-kim-says-she-s-the-queen-of-hip-hop http://genius.com/The-notorious-big-notorious-big-lyrics

She has been calling herself the Queen of Rap for quite long, I would suggest you add her another honorific name titled

Queen of Rap

She calls herself the Queen of Rap on her twitter also

http://twitter.com/LilKim

Thank you very much Frost412 (talk) 13:17, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. None of these are reliable sources. The hiphopdx one comes the closest but even then it just says that she calls herself the queen of rap. Compare that to the multiple secondary, reliable sources calling Missy Elliot the queen of rap or Cher the goddess of pop. Cannolis (talk) 11:41, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 September 2015

Hi this is a request to add extra titles to the Michael Jackson section - as well as the 'King Of Pop' he was also known as 'The World's Greatest Entertainer' and 'The World's Greatest Ever Entertainer'.

Thank you very much. Rijowhi (talk) 20:00, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Done Thank you for your contribution! Mww113 (talk) 23:49, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, but those articles do not indicate that he was commonly known in this way, or that they were nicknames.--SabreBD (talk) 19:41, 25 September 2015 (UTC)