Talk:History of Cornell University

Redirect

This page should be re-directed to Cornell University. mwinog2777^talk

This page is far longer and more detailed than the main article. WP:SUMMARY —mercuryboard^talk 00:10, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The page is not too long or detailed for the main page, however. Yes, I did read WP summary mwinog2777^talk

To quote professor Jeremy Rabkin, hellz no. This page can more than stand on its own and should do so. It would super-duper-overcrowd the main article. JDoorjam Talk 02:51, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

OK mwinog2777^talk

Shouldn't there be a section on Lehman's resignation.

Williard Straight Hall Takeover

I have largely reverted the August edits on the takeover. I am surprised that it is still such a lightening rod after 40 years. The Cornell Daily Sun did an excellent job organizing a symposium and a special section this past April. I have added a paragraph on the consequences of the takeover, but have removed the disputed details. At the time, there was an extensive investigation of who burned the crosses at the Wari co-op, and at this point we will never know the truth. Citing to a book that offers speculation, does not help matters. I think that listing the specific demands of the students participating in the takeover is not helpful, because most of the demands were not granted. Nor is it helpful to get into detail or speculation on why the students brought in the guns. I trust this is a meets the NPOV test. Racepacket (talk) 10:13, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:History of Cornell University/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Edge3 (talk) 03:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Referencing seems rather sparse and does not satisfy the good article criteria, so I am going to fail this nomination for now. I suggest that you insert at least one inline reference per paragraph before you renominate. --Edge3 (talk) 03:53, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:History of Cornell University/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 23:58, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   Why not combine the first three sentences? (done) The length of paragraphs kept seeming odd to me while reading. There are a bunch of single sentence paragraphs, while others, like the first in Founding, have absurd run-on sentences with parentheses, quotes, and semicolons. Two disambigs to fix. (done) And bold text shouldn't be used in the prose, was that because an article on Calspan got merged or split there? (done)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   While the choice of sources is fine, and the textual sources are good, bare references should be filled out with dates and titles that aren't in all caps. (Fixed the eight naked references. I have taken liberties with going lower case, but some editors, like Ryulong, insist on taking the title verbatim from the <title> tag of the page.) Without titles and dates, the source really isn't verifiable to the reader as the same one the editor used. Except in quotations, in-line references should be position outside the period at the end of a sentence. (MOS allows a specific fact to be supported by a footnote in the middle of a sentence)

That is somewhat a matter of appearance, and fine when there are lots of sources and you want to be specific, but it still seems odd to have one in the middle of a sentence but none at the end.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 17:40, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

There is the recommendation at MOS:ALLCAPS for changing newspaper article titles to capitalize each word, but again, that's mostly about appearance. The <title> parameter is frequently not the title of the article being sourced, so I'm not sure that's a air-tight policy. Again, the idea is for verifiability. (Done)-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 22:26, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

1. It is 'broad in its coverage

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   The beginning is solid, going over the background and the school's beginning, but then it hits a lot of topics, and I'm not sure we need whole sections on Interdisciplinary studies or Calspan, which could be combined with something like Infrastructure innovations to make a campus history section.
   

Camps history covered in three spearate articles: Cornell West Campus, Cornell North Campus and Cornell Central Campus. The Cornell Areonautical Lab was very significant in the history of the institution and deserves coverage, but does not fit into any other section.
And what's up with the "Epilogue" about Ezra Cornell's wife in this encyclopedia article? I just don't understand what that section adds and why its formatted that way. Couldn't that just be integrated above or left to the article about Ezra Cornell himself? (done - epilogue was added recently by a student)

1. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Sections like Race relations are covered well without a POV.

2. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

3. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   In-text images shouldn't use specific pixel sizes, just set them to thumb. I also recommend using the "upright" field for vertical images. Sandwiching text with images on both sides is explicitly discouraged in the MOS, so why not just put one of the founders in the imageless section below? (we were trying hard to give them co-equal billing both in terms of placement and size) And I don't think you are actually able to use File:Culogo web 60red.png. (there is a fair use rationale timeplate posted for this article on that file's page.) We cheat on the GU page by using a photo of stained-glass version of a previous logo, though even that's questionable. And though I don't think its really required for GA, alt text has become expected for images.

Two things. Alt text isn't really the same as captions, and the idea is to describe an image. And use of Template:Logo fur doesn't mean you can use a logo anywhere. Looking at other college history articles, I don't see any others with an official school logo.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 19:10, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

See University of Miami - it is allowed if there is a fair use rationale. Racepacket (talk) 23:04, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't really see what Miami has to do with it. Logos are (generally) only permitted on the main article about a subject, not on related articles like this one. So its fine on Cornell University, but wouldn't be here. UCLA actually took on the issue of reoccurring school logo use last year, WP:NFR#File:UCLA Bruins Logo.png, but basically you can't use anything official here.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 04:16, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

I put a notice up at WP:IMAGEHELP, where more experienced users can comment.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 20:29, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

1. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   I don't mind holding this article for as long as it can be, but I don't really think it meets the standards of other Good Articles. The content is good, but the structure was often hard to read. For example "In the late 1850s, at the University of Michigan, where he had been appointed a professor of history, White's thoughts on a great American university continued to develop." The University of Michigan hadn't been appointed professor, White had. Maybe try something active like "White developed his thoughts on a great American university in the late 1850s at the University of Michigan as a professor of history." I can go through and try to pick more of these out if I'll help.

These are things that stand out to me as potential issues:

• Run on sentences: "However, even before Ezra Cornell and Andrew White met..."; "At Geneva, White would read about the great colleges..."; "But, while Cornell and White..."; "John McMullen, who was president..."; "CAL invented the first crash test dummy..."
• Present tense: "Cornell and White soon find themselves..."
• Unnecessary adverbs/conjunctions: "Hence, both chaired committees..."; "Thus began the collaboration..."; "But, while Cornell and White..."; "To this end, he traveled to France..."; "In fact, seven of the first 11..."; "However, until the early 1980s..."; "Since then, 327..."
• More sentence starters that aren't really needed: "In general", "For example", "Similarly", "Subsequently", "Historically"
• One sentence paragraphs: "It was the success of the egalitarian ideals..."; "Andrew D. White, its first president..."; "Yet, Cornell and White soon find..."; "Cornell formally added alumni-elected..."
• I counted another fourteen paragraphs with only two sentences, including in the lead.
• Could "Support from New York State", "Giving and alumni involvement", and "Affordability and use of the endowment" be worked into a single section on finances, perhaps with subsections?
• The template for "Main article: New York State College of Forestry at Cornell" should be at the top of the section or just linked in the text.
• First female students information is repeated in "Opening" and "Coeducation" sections.
• There are six sources between the "Conception" and "Establishment" sections, half of which are on one sentence. At the very least the "ref name" feature needs some use.
  • When the same source is cited to a different page, the "ref name" is inappropriate. Racepacket (talk) 03:50, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
• Besides those, I counted another eight paragraphs without a single reference.

While I like the recent work that has gone into the article in the last 3 weeks, large issues with prose and referencing remain. Good luck, and let me know if I can help.-- Patrick {_oѺ^∞} 20:29, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Nonsectarianism

I'm writing this for copyright issue purposes. I established the "Nonsectarianism" section with this edit. The prose was directly pasted from this version of the article Cornell University. I wrote/compiled 100% of that prose earlier that day, as shown by this diff which encompasses several edits of mine in unbroken sequence. —Bill Price^{(notyourbroom)} 20:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Coeducational dorms

Originally dorms were built for the specific purpose of housing men or housing women. Lyon Hall was build as a male dorm. Today, both men and women live in Lyon Hall, the lower floors house 55 non-freshman women, but the tower is occupied by a member of Quill and Dagger, who is frequently male. Hence, it cannot be described as a women-only dorm. Racepacket (talk) 19:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:History of Cornell University/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: AD 22:01, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   See below

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   Please check for citation needed tags, dead links, and ensure that reference style is consistent throughout. Please make sure all facts are cited; large parts of the prose have no citations at all - I've tagged some.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Prose issues:

• "In fact, seven of the first 11 women to become licensed veterinarians in this country were Cornell graduates" - sounds a little colloquial with 'in fact'.
• "Cornell, which had been offering a four-year scholarship to one student in each New York assembly district every year and was the state's land-grant university, was determined to convince the state to become a benefactor of the university". This seems confused.
• "The Home Economics School, in turn, became to develop classes in hotel administration in 1922" Became to?
• "The school quickly gained national stature when U.S. Secretary of Labor Frances Perkins, who was the first female US Cabinet member, who served longer than anyone else as Secretary of Labor (12 years), joined the ILR faculty." Who, who. Too listy.
• "the Legislature placed all state-funded higher education into a new the State University of New York (SUNY)" A new the?

Images:

• All seem to check out, but I don't think the copyrighted logo is necessary on an article about the history.

Response

Thank you for your helpful review. I have fixed the prose issues. However, there is a difference between having the text refer to academic years by a date range "x-y" and saying "Between x and y" which implies two separate calendar years. I am working on the needed citations, to meet the GA criteria of "provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged." Racepacket (talk) 12:41, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

All dead links fixed, working on [citation needed]'s. Racepacket (talk) 03:59, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

They are not all fixed - see this. Also, you appear to have duplicate ref links - e.g. to the bio of Andrew Dickson White at Gutenburg, which need fixing. AD 14:57, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I have fixed the Alpha Phi Alpha link and updated the link from http://www.vet.cornell.edu/about/history.htm to http://www.vet.cornell.edu/about/history.cfm . I have reviewed the Andrew Dickson White links and they seem fine to me. Because page numbers are not provided in the Project Gutenburg version, we cite to "Chapter Numbers", so each separate ref has a different Roman Numeral to reference a different chapter. I don't see any way of combining them without losing that specificity. Do you have a suggestion? Racepacket (talk) 18:51, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

They link to the same URL, and I missed that they have different chapter numbers. Ideally, it would be better to link directly to the chapters. Is that possible? Otherwise, this looks about ready to be promoted. AD 22:15, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Volume I and Volume II of AD White's Autobiography download as separate files, and we indicated which of the two volumes are used in each citation. The citation URL takes you to a download page for that volume, where you can pick the format you wish - HTML, Kindle or text. With the HTML and text, I do not see a more specific way of giving the URL, and I have not tried the Kindle version. Thanks, Racepacket (talk) 23:30, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

OK then. AD 13:31, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

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Cornell Tech campus

This article could probably use a brief section about the Cornell Tech campus, with a link to the main Cornell Tech article. -Kzirkel (talk) 13:25, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Cornell Daily Sun article

We read:

Students and faculty have chronicled Cornell in works of fiction. The most notable was The Widening Stain which first appeared anonymously.

The link is dead; but what's odder is that Cornell's websitelet for its Daily Sun doesn't seem to have this issue. -- Hoary (talk) 22:24, 15 August 2022 (UTC)