Talk:Hikikomori/Archive 1

2005

Question

"[...] pornographic manga (which often called "hentai manga" in Western countries). [...]" I'm a little confused about why someone would infer that it's NOT referred to as h-manga in Japan and any other country, for that matter. That's its /name/, not just a western interpretation; am I wrong? --131.7.251.200 30 June 2005 16:33 (UTC)

You are correct, i changed the text. I linked it to Hentai, because H Manga is just a stub. Thanks for the tip -- Chris 73 Talk June 30, 2005 19:40 (UTC)

I thought "Hentai" was just not a word Japanese people would use to refer to pornographic material... 84.137.18.70 21:29, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

It means "pervert". But you often see prurient items marked/branded with an "H" here. - 219.165.164.126 06:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Adding A Cultural References section to the end of the entry

Someone mentioned this idea for the freeter entry and I thought that it might bear consideration for the hikikomori entry. A 'Cultural References' section at the end of the entry could also provide a way for people to see how Japanese culture perceives this phenomenon.

There have been a few movies such as 'Tokyo Plastic', as well as novels with hikikomori-type characters featured in the plotline. There is also no doubt a fair number of manga in Japan with hikikomori in the stories. Compiling a few of the more prominent instances of such cultural references to hikikomori would be quite informative. --Mdziesinski 18:41, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Problems with Stevertigo's edits

I would like to see where the existing body of research on hikikomori states:

The pressure comes from a number of different sources, and though its ill effects are well known, the issue is generally regarded as a tradeoff between the greater material benefits to the society, versus the humanization of the individual.

This is great a philosophy argument, but most of the published research on hikikomori points to the previous edit, which is more accurate:

The pressure comes from a number of different sources, but largely the focus of concern centers around the issue of transformation from youth to adult, along with its related core issues of independence and self-reliance.

Maybe issues of the dehumanizing effect of Globalism should be kept in that particular entry.

There are three primary factors causing hikikomori:

1. middle class affluence in a postindustrial society allows parents to support a adult child indefinitely in the home. In lower income families there are no hikikomori because that youth is forced to work if he cannot finish school, for this reason isolation in the room stops at an early stage.
2. the inability of parents to recognize and act on the youth's slide into isolation (soft parenting) or even a codependent collusion between mother and son (known as amae in Japanese.
3. the flat economy and job market which makes the years of competitive schooling pointless. While their fathers still enjoy life employment at Multi-Nationals such as Mitsubishi, young employees in Japan enjoy no such job guarantees in today's job market (See Freeters and NEET for more on this). Young people are savvy enough to see the system in place for their grandfathers and fathers no longer works.

Also problems with this edit:

== Industrialized education === The Japan education system is notorious worldwide for its strict nature, high expectations, high emphasis on competition, and strict pass-or-fail ideology. As the educational system is viewed as an important part of the society's overall productivity and success, students often face significant pressure from parents and the society in general to conform to the its dictates and doctrines. These doctrines, while part of modern Japanese society, are often extreme —they may be rejected by youth.

Industrialized education

• This whole passage is sensational and notorious is also a bit over the top as a descriptor; if you do research on Japanese education in 2005 or have lived in Japan as long as I have, you would discover that the 'pressure-cooker' schools reported to exist in Japan according to the modified entry have been significantly relaxed to 5 day weeks with academic curricula comparable to Western education since 1996, even dropping two subjects from the daily schedule. If there is ANY educational pressure for youth in Japan today, again the onus falls upon the parents who send kids to private cram schools to 'make up' for the newly lax curricula in the public schools.

In extreme cases, the pressure starts already before pre-school, where even toddlers must compete through an entrance exam for the privilege of attending the the best pre-schools.

• Yes, this exists, but mostly in Tokyo, and is, as the editor states, an 'extreme case'; it doesn't explain why hikikomori are cropping up all across the nation.

• The educational model added to the hikikomori entry by Stevertigo's is stuff published in the 1990s when the threat of 'Japan Inc.' existed, not the rapidly changing system in effect today.

• The whole addition of the 'notorious Japanese education system' in the new edits are problematic, oversimplify the hikikomori issue and reinforce stereotypes about the Japanese. It seriously needs to be toned down.

I'm bringing this up in talk as I feel a Wiki moderator needs to look at this.

If I change it without comment, it might seem I'm going after Stevertigo, but the problem here is the sensational flavor the education system additions and theory he presents.

The rest of the his additions are welcome, add to the richness of the entry, and do indeed fit with the existing body of hikikomori entry as it stood before his additions. I applaud him for that input. --Mdziesinski 11:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Nevada-tan?

Nevada-tan's article is listed under 'See Also', but was Nevada-tan really a hikikomori? She was noted as being quite obsessed with the Internet but I cannot find any evidence of her being reclusive. Is this link really appropriate? User:59.167.98.182 12:48, 27 August 2005

I agree, and thought the link was not appropriate as hikikomori are not really violent like Nevada-Tan and the linkage only serves to reinforce the idea that hikikomori are 'scary and violent teens who might come out of their rooms at any minute to attack you'. However, upon reading the Nevada-Tan entry, and how the Japanese public though the girl displayed some of the same behavior patterns as hikikomori (though this is debatable), I can see the relevance as a link as it is related to the hikikomori topic, if only in a peripheral way. User:Mdziesinski 17:00, 27 August 2005

203.198.242.116 engaging in Vandalism in progress or trolling

Following Wiki's procedures, I am initiating the first stage in what I believe to be Vandalism in progress or trolling by User:203.198.242.116. It has exceeded the Three-revert rule and frankly I'm getting tired of seeing what appears to be viral marketing on this hikikomori entry.

If the user at 203.198.242.116 wants to add more depth to Homokaasu entry, then by all means do so at that entry. It appears that there is an attempt to add mind control links to various topics throughout Wiki as a form of virtual tagging or graffiti.

If the additions of irrelevant material about 'mind control' experiments continue, I will put in a Requests for mediation or possibly IP blocking. 203.198.242.116, please stop. Wiki is a valuable resource to many people, not a BBS. User:Mdziesinski 16:48, 27 August 2005

FYI, the Three-revert rule is no more then 3 reversions in a 24hr period; so there has been no violation of 3RR as the reversions occured over 3 days. This is blattant calumny.

Adding a link toward Homokaasu is only simple logic, a significant improvement to these systematically biased entries. If you want to deny this evidence in order to implement your personal agenda, serious readers aren't illiterate enough and will decide by themselves. They expect and rightfully deserve better from this encyclopedia. --203.198.242.116 11:38, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

• • I concede that the three revert rule was not violated, however, you (203.198.242.116) have repeatedly added in material on the Frey effect and homokassu that has no direct bearing on hikikomori, despite several editors reverting out your additions, you have repeatedly reinserted them. These are bad faith edits bordering on vandalism. I looked at the controversy on the Frey Effect entry and that is not something desired on this entry. I will ask the moderators of Wiki to lock this entry if needed. BTW, I have no personal 'agenda', I am a social scientist who has done field research on the topic in ACTUAL hikikomori rehab centers, who has been very careful to only include material in this entry from already-published academic and public sources on the hikikomori issue. Your edits on 'mind control' have not a whit to do with these poor youth who are trying to sort out their lives and find a way out of their predicament. What you are doing to the hikikomori entry trivializes and cheapens their plight and prevents serious discussion about the hikikomori topic. --Mdziesinski 9:19, 01 Semptember 2005 (UTC)

• • Also, 203.198.242.116, I would appreciate it, if in the future, you would not steal my discussion posts in other entries and claim them as your own material! After vandalizing http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hikikomori&action=history I asked you to stop and you have lifted my entire request in this hikikomori discussion (with minor link modification) and posted it as if your own here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Frey_effect Looks familiar doesn't it? --Mdziesinski 9:19, 01 Semptember 2005 (UTC)

• • • Agreed, 203.198.242.116 has been trolling and inserting unneeded links about mind control to a few different Wikipedia pages. An IP ban is definitely in order if this behavior persists. Colin McMillen 07:27, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

• • While my modest goal here is to educate the younger readers, it seems that you are now aware that your desperate attempt to scramble and save what is left of the CIA smoke screen that prevailed in the media will no longer be adequate to provide a cover-up for the said CIA psychotronic warfare. Trying to silence me in this sole encyclopedia with systematic gang style stalking, fabricated grotesque defamation and barrage of vandalism will lead you nowhere.

Bhishma: Is it true that you have mastered all the possible forms of war? Drona: As well as you, Bhishma. — The Mahabharata --203.198.242.116 11:32, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

• • • Are you for real??? This CIA nonsense has nothing to do with a social problem in Japan. Nothing. Take this paranioa talk to the frey entry or tinfoil hats. Or better yet, write a constructive Wiki entry on what you feel you are an expert of and leave non-related Wiki entries alone. I'm not even going to dignify anymore responses on what is clearly an Internet_troll.--Mdziesinski 12:06, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

• • • 203.198.242.116, be precautious, I am suspicious, too. It shows symptoms of an isolating technique. I am experiencing it. I consider my mindstate not healthy. It is of course the result of drug and internet overuse, but on the other hand, there is an influence coming from a perfectly organised medial image (of success and other states of sociality), too. It is, so far I agree with you, my belief that these influences are not coincidential (but instead related to each other). There is no room for debate. To the address of "observers", keep in mind that the application of the notion of "trolling" requires an intentional vandalism. I must also remind you that you debate a psychopathological subject here, and unless you are accredited you should completely refrain from publishing an analysis, because there is danger of issuing malpractised advice to the affected.

Depression?

This sounds like depression to me. The symptoms are there: Shutting down yourself, that is, staying away from society, not taking baths, social awkwardness, etc. Why isn't a single mention of a possible depression? -- 9:38, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Because the phenomenon is more complex than just satisfying the symptoms for depression. True, some hikikomori may exhibit the behavior patterns of depressives, but others who are also classified by Japanese society as hikikomori, do not. The key thing to consider here is that the social label of hikikomori in Japanese Society is an umbrella term for any individual who shut himself or herself off from society at large; the common discourse in Japan isn't concerned about the causes that Western doctors might look for, but rather the final resultant behavior: acute social withdrawal. Some hikikomori may be suffering from depression, others acute shyness, others laziness, yet others may be mentally handicapped. In Japanese society, all of these patterns of behavior, if they lead to hikikomori reclusiveness, are termed 'hikikomori'. Medicalizing hikikomori by labeling them all with the Western medical definition of 'depression' only muddies the waters. Also, I did field research with hikikomori and I would not classify most hikikomori I observed as purely depressive, but rather shy and socially stagnant individuals who normalized into functional adults with very few relapses once socialized. Clinical depression is much more likely to reoccur. --Mdziesinski 08:46, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi Mdziesinski, thanks for the very useful info, very insightful (hope that's the correct word).

Oh, and I saw that another user added a link to Depression :)

(the smilie looks eerie next to the word depression)

anyway, thanks a lot -- 3:36, 20 September 2005

You're welcome. BTW, have you ever considered getting a login at Wikipedia? It's free, and helps in communicating, since you get your own talk page -- Chris 73 Talk 04:58, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

thanks, I already have one in spanish, but will take your advice and open one in english. It's just that I like the recent "open edit for all" feature, to wander around, see something that needs fixing and then correct it :P cya. -- 15:55, 21 September 2005

Not all hikikomori are depressed, so it can't be the same. Also, not all depressed people have any hikikomori tendencies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.63.81 (talk) 13:35, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

(signing this under my new username; was formerly an IP address.) 火の王国の王女 ~Fire Nation Princess~ (talk) 06:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Avoidant personality disorder? Cnkimpel (talk) 20:58, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Not just a Japanese Condition

I think the Western World fails to recoginize that hikokimori is not just a problem that invovles only Asian cultures. The fact that the same strife conditions exist in in the West should be studied further as it may determine the diffence between depression and hikokimori.

However, the APA seems to list diagnosises like hikokimori as some form of psychosexual disorder because of regressed sexual fantasies or bottled frustrations that could lead to violent behavior. If that is the case, then according to the APA just about ever social pariah (sp) suffers from hikikomori. This logically can not be true.

Further investigation into this article would be wise especially since events such as Columbine and the Sakakibara murders can not be used as examples of hikokimori and would suggest that the average hikokimori sufferer is potentially violent and a danger to the general public.

Institutionalization is not the propoer treatment for hikokimori. If anything, putting someone who suffers from hikokimori into a mental hospital would do more harm than good psychologically since hikokimori is more off a stress disorder brought on by high levels of stress. If anything, some time away from the city but with other people, possibly other hikokimori sufferers, would seem like a better treatment.

Currently, Western medicine does not recognize hikokimori, but as a form of depression brought on by high levels of stress and anxiety. Western medicine seems to think that pills and mental institutionalization (ranging from three days of outpatient observation to instititutional confinement) are the only solution to this problem. If you just had a severe nervious breakdown (common symptom of hikokimori) the last thing anyone wants to do is spend three days with violently or screaming mental patients with diagnosises far worse than hikikomori.

If a sufferer has been taking prescribed amphetamines (i.e. Ritalin) or anti-depressants (i.e. Prozac), psychologists should consider if the patient may be suffering from a form of hikokimori rather than explicity diagnosing the patient with Bipolar disorder, mania, or some other psychosis. --Bushido Hacks 17:07, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

That´s "hikikomori", not "hikokimori". And it is not a diagnosis, it is a Japanese word that means "pulling away, withdrawing". It is not an illness like cancer or diabetes that you either have or do not have. There are all shades of grey here. The statement "Currently, Western medicine does not recognize hikikomori" hopefully only means that the word is not among established diagnoses, but that doesn´t mean that "Western medicine" (whoever that is!) denies the existence of withdrawing kids, I hope! Grape, 30. April 2007

I fail to see how it is a problem. Also, there are 1 million hikkikomori in Japan alone and only 5 hikkikomori in international total have commited violent crimes and hikkikomori rarely leave the house so it is argumentum ad media to suggest that hikkikomori are a danger to the public (surely they are a far greater danger to themselves?!)but otherwise your essay is an excellent piece of work. Sioraf (talk) 19:38, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

More on the “Not just a Japanese Problem”

Note: this section was "boldly" deleted at the end of 2008 by Verdatum. Boldly restoring it. If you dislike talk page content, it should be moved somewhere else and a link provided, not simply deleted. Y12J (talk) 08:41, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I am Western, I am 17, I live in the United States and I would say I am a prime example of a Hikikomori. Over the last few months (since winter break) I have become a “Hikikomori,” I share just about every one of the criteria excepts the part about becoming violent and wanting to lash out.

I am awake all night; I sleep until one in the afternoon (I use to claim it is because I wanted to avoid watching daytime television). Most of my waking hours are spent alone, in my room, watching films, surfing the internet, reading, gaming, playing guitar, listening to music (I am addicted to music).

I have set my own sleep schedule; even during school, I come home and sleep till eight or so, that way I can stay up until the next day and then I go to class. I stay up, watch Conan, Tube Music Network, and World News Now.

I haven’t taken part in an after school activity or club since middle school (I have been considering joining the debate club, but I don’t like the kids that have joined all ready)

I do have “retinues and habits”, having my shoes by my bedside, like setting out my cloths, wallet, mp3 player, books, bag, etc, etc, etc, the day before. I make sure I have my lunch money the day before, I set aside specific time periods for everything I do in my day.

I have leave the house to hang out with friends very seldom, and I have a very small group of friends(two kids I consider real friends in a group of about four). The only other times I leave is either for food/soda or to go to the library, or go see a film (by myself).

I looked at my MSN contacts list and I found that my Internet friends (i.e. people I know from forums like this one) out number friends that I go to class with (16 kids I go to class with, and 31 internet friends).

And I am famous for cooking mainly after my siblings and parents are gone or asleep, my mom constantly complains about waking up and finding dirty dishes.

>>>>>>>If that's the case, I'm also hikikomori for staying home all day taking care of the kids. I believe it may be more extreme than that, since that doesn't sound too socially withdrawn to the point of locking yourself in the room most of the time, refusing to go to school or work nor bother being with anyone outside. anonymoose 10-19-2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.232.52.51 (talk) 12:02, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

>>>Not to be nitpicky, but you go to school, so you can't be a hikikomori. User:68.45.63.81 12:45, 6 April 2008

• It is possible to go to school and be a hikikomori. I go to school only because I have to and have most of the signsof hikkikomorism.

Sioraf (talk) 18:20, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree about it not being just Japanese. I am 19 and from North America, and I also consider myself a hikikomori. I stay in my room for most of the day, my sleep schedules are reversed, I have no in-person friends, I dropped out of school despite my high grades because of pressure and bullying, and I only leave the house to shop with my mum. I'm sure I'm not the only one. User:Demikezu 19:49, 13 August 2007

I agree about it not being just Japanese. I am 20 and from North America, and I also consider myself a hikikomori. I stay in my room for most of the day, my sleep schedules are reversed, I have no in-person friends, I dropped out of school despite my high grades because of pressure and bullying, and I never leave the house. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

(edited a bit by the original poster to update the age) User:68.45.63.81 12:45, 6 April 2008

(signing this under my new username; was formerly an IP address.) 火の王国の王女 ~Fire Nation Princess~ (talk) 06:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Eek! Messy. Anyhow, I agree that it is not just a Japanese phenomena. I know quite a few Americans that are essentially the equivalent of Japanese Hikikomori. The only issue is that there hasn't been any research--that I know of--relating Japanese Hikikomoris to Americans. On a personal note, I'd like to say that you guys(and gals) Rox.Anthonzi 23:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

If this Is true then I also am a hikikomori. Ive suffered from depresion and social anxiety for years. I shut down sophmore year in highschool and layed in my seat often hiding that I was crying. Now I have been sent to kradwell high school where days are 3 hours long and Im effectively mute. I occasionally hang out with friends but whenever I do so I end up wishing I had not.I would like to point out that many people who surf 4chan.org have come across as hikikomori. I recently chated with a man there who has had no human contact other than the internet for 8 years and he lives in new york. If He is not a hikikomori then I dont know what is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.128.96.52 (talk) 20:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

2006

Section "Worldwide"

I agree with Bushido Hacks, in that I highly doubt that hikikomori itself is mainly a Japanese problem. IMO there mainly seems to be a lack of an fitting equivalent term in the West. Twixter f.ex. is pretty different to the situation a hikikomori lives in, as they have contact with other people, etc.

My closest guess would be a social phobia, which at times leads to the same extreme behaviour as hikikomori does. And albeit it's a known disorder, I have the feeling it's not well publicized, usually only appearing in mass media when connected to acts of violence. After all, it seems to be a common western perception that (especially adolescents) have to be very outgoing, with tons of friends (or, as a teacher of mine put it "Shyness is extinct these days"...)

I don't think it's correct to say "While total social withdrawal seems to be mainly a Japanese phenomenon, [...]", implying that it would be very unusual to find such an individual in Western society, as it simply isn't. As a matter of fact, it doesn't require that much searching to find forums on the internet that are specifically for persons who suffer from extreme shyness and social isolation, respectively withdrawal and won't leave the house. Some of these forums have more than 1,000 members.

While certain aspects easily might be particular to Japanese society, the "Worldwide" section should have a (literally) more global and differentiated approach. In the least, I'd suggest to get rid of above sentence. -- Velour 05:50, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Article Errors

This article is riddled with errors:

1. It says "lifetime employment" no longer applies to new, incoming workers in Japan. Actually, "lifetime employment" is a misleading term that was originally coined by an American writer in Japan in the 1950s. The Japanese employment system is distinctly different from the Western "hire-and-fire" labor system and very much still in force in Japan, particularly at the large corporations. Far from being a Japanese cultural "tradition," as it is often portrayed in the U.S. media, the Japanese employment system is actually a relatively new system that only dates back to the 1950s. Not only is the system still alive and well, but it has actually been copied by other East Asian nations, from Taiwan to South Korea.
2. The article's author refers to "rote memorization" as still in common use in Japan's schools. Not true: rote memorization was in fact phased out 10 to 15 years ago as a common teaching tool. The system has recently gained some favorable press in Japan as some educators have considered using it again (as previous school reforms that phased out rote learning are now regarded as failures).
3. The article refers to Japan's supposed economic weakness and a "shaky job market." In fact, Japan's economy is actually doing quite well and continues to improve. And as far as the job market goes, Japan has a very low jobless rate (4.2 percent; lower than the U.S., in fact).

In my opinion, your points have some flaws.

1. Large corporations have lifetime employment, smaller ones less and less so. A newly employed worker cannot expect to have a lifetime job.
2. Memorization is still a main part of school (e.g. Kanji), and University entrance exams check more knowledge than understanding. In general, the Japanese Education system is very demanding and stressful, especially the entrance exams of Universities.
3. The economy is currently on an upturn, if this is sustainable has to be seen, although I am optimistic on this point. The Jobless rate given by the government is a fudged number, if you work only 1 hour a month then you're employed. Many young people do part time or low paying jobs (e.g. Convienient store staff) with no career options whatsoever.

Of course it is possible to discuss details, but the article is definitely not riddled with errors. -- Chris 73 | Talk 15:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Needs Revision

The article needs major revision; it's whole approach to writing the article is not really neutral, or too subjective. Somehow, I just feel it doesn't follow the Wikipedia standard policies. It also reads more like a blog or an amateur essay than an encyclopedic article. It is kind of closed minded and holds a non-neutral view on what exactly defines a "Hikikomori" -- it provides examples, but the wording is off - it should state that "often times, people who are considered to be Hikikomoris are this way..." etc., instead of, "Hikikomoris usually are this way..." It is almost as if the article is treating this personallity type as a different breed or species! There are no set "guidelines" to being a Hiki, they don't always sleep in the morning, etc.

I have a feeling the article was written in Japanese, and translated back; which is why it is in bad shape. An example of what I mean would be: Why is it that the article mentions manga, television, and computer games specifically? Why wouldn't it be video games, board games, games in general, or any type of media or form of entertainment? And instead of stating that these 3 are most common medias; the article simply states it as a fact -- it leaves no room for other forms of media. The article is riddled with tons of errors like this.

Actually, I may be wrong on what I wrote above -- maybe the term DOES require a certain set of pacuiliarities (sp?) for a person to be considered on. Although I doubt it. User:24.23.6.222 17:00, 29 March 2006

Most of the article originates from me, and was not translated from Japanese sources. You are right as I am not a professional sociologist, but feel free to work on the article and improve it. With Hikkikomori, there is alwas a gray area between being normal (whatever that is) and being a Hikkikomori, and any statement can be started with usually, often, many.... As for your example with the games, my feeling is that most board games and many non-computer games are for multiple players, whiich does not fit the definition of Hikkikomori. Computer games and video games are in my opinion synonyms, as any video game requires a computer of some sort to run. Anyway, feel free to work on the article -- Chris 73 | Talk 07:04, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the assessment that this article, while providing a great wealth of information on this social phenomenon, needs revision as it does not provide the necessary Neutral Point of View (NPOV). Apart from that I also got the impression that not a social group is characterized here, but an animal species, I think the main problem with the presented point of view can be compared with similiar controversies regarding other social minority groups or phenomenons that divert from the perceived societal majority "norm". ONE group might argue that it is a pathological psychological condition that needs treatment - people need to be "cured" from their differenceness and fit in with the masses - while ANOTHER might say that this is just a difference stance on life and no one who respects human diversity has the right to condemn these people unless they disrupt society through violence(when they do not in general). While objections to the lifestyle in question are fully valid, it is clear to me that this article only represents the first view on the matter, which i find problematic in light of the highly conformist nature of traditional (and corporate) Japanese society, where (esp from a Western view) this and other phenomena can be seen as individualistic anti-movements rather than illnesses that need treatment in ANY CASE. In particular, as the other poster noted saying things like "these people usually are this or that way" and especially "they are acutely aware of their problem" are examples for the POV view on the matter. I suggest cleaning the article from such absolute terms and maybe also adding a section clearly addressing the "lifestyle" stance on the phenomenon, as has been done with similiarly controversial topics to make them more balanced (see Schizoid and Asperger Syndrome). --Bluebird47, 4 May 2006

I started a major clean-up of the article both regarding its POV language and the imbalanced view as highlighted by its structuring alone. Having read through the related Freeter and Parasite Singles articles (while not being without own problems), I noticed that their structure is much better suited in terms of a neutral examination of the phenomenon. I have therefore adopted it, adjusted the order of some paragraphs in consequence, removed some excessive sub-structuring and added the "acceptance" paragraph to achieve a balance between lifestyle choice and illness views. No doubt, there is more detail work necessary to remove the speculative tone of some paragraphs, and, as has been noted for the mentioned related articles, it is suggested to add more sources to back up some of the claim given. --Bluebird47, 5 May 2006

Thank you for your contributions. I am completely comfortable with the new (improved) version, and would support a removal of the POV tag. Thank you for your work! -- Chris 73 | Talk 06:26, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad you agree with the changes. After proofreading once more, I'll remove the tag. Bluebird47 11:52, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Article Suggestion

I'm a new user to Wikipedia, so please let me know if I'm editing this talk page incorrectly. I wanted to suggest a small addition to the article's section on 'hikimori' throughout the world, as follows:

In 2005, Japanese and Omani researchers reported a case of 'hikikomori' in a 24-year-old young man in Oman, and speculated about similar factors that might explain the phenomenon's presence in both cultures: (1) in both countries, "there is a tendency to regard shame as an important emotional experience"; (2) while language lets people express their emotions, "the presence of rich metaphors and abstractions [within language] may promote a feeling that one is been ['sic'] evaluated by others"; and (3) "the more moral ethical codes and customs a society carries," the more likely it is for people to fear being "embarassed, scrutinized, judged, or humiliated in public."

(I came across this article doing a little report on 'hikikomori.')

I'm not really sure about putting it in the article, because the "World Wide" subsection falls under the broader "Controversy" section, and my addition wouldn't really talk about a controversy. If anyone has any suggestions about this, I wouldn't mind putting in some time to re-organize bits of the page. P.S. The single apostrophes were supposed to make italitcs. ItsaMeaNick 06:55, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

You are right, the recent restructuring left the world-wide part kind of misplaced in the controversy section. I've now separated the general description from the controversy paragraph and moved it to the situation section.

On a different note, I'm not so sure about the alleged parallel between Oman and Japanese hikkimori in your addition. To my mind, in Japan the spreading of the hikimori phenomenon owes to 1) the Japanese meritocracy and high competitiveness in the universities and on the job market 2) the extremely rigid social conduct and social hierarchy and 3) the conformity and subordination traditionally expected from Japanese, all of this putting great pressure on the individual. While elements particularly of 1) as well as the pressure to lead a life in tune with what society regards as "normal" and "successful" can be found throughout capitalist societies world-wide, the other factors may give the phenomenon a specific Japanese quality at least (i.e., similiar symptoms/consequences throughout the world that result in hikkimori-like existences may have different causes). Bluebird47 11:46, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Case question

In the Controversy section of the article, there's this: "In the coming days, the media reported other extremely violent cases as perpetrated by hikikomori, such as one man who kidnapped a young girl and held her captive for nine years". Which case was that (and could I have a link to an article)? I'd heard of Nevada-tan, the bus hijacker and the serial killer but the only one I can think of that fits this description is the Tanya Nicole Kach case, except Ms. Kach was held captive for ten years. If I missed it in the external links, let me know. Thanks! - Jaguara 22:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

The girls name is Fusako Sano (e.g. http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/archive/news/2004/12/20041229p2g00m0dm999000c.html, or do a google search) -- Chris 73 | Talk 22:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Jaguara Jaguara 04:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Now with article: Sano Fusako -- Chris 73 | Talk 10:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Autism Spectrum Disorders and Hikikomori

Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD's) are 2.95 times more prevalent in Japan than in the UK and the US. In Japan, 2.1% of the population have an Autism Spectrum Disorder compared to ca. 0.70% in the UK and US. This is exceptionally high and should be taken into account.

I have little doubt that much of the Hikionmori phenomenon is due to people with ASD's interacting with Japanese scociety/culture. The intense claustrophobic overcrowding - combined with social pressure to conform, educational pressures to do well, feelings of failure and shame...experienced by young people with ASD’s, modify the expression of their ASD into a Japanese subtype that appears to emphasise social withdrawal.

I have mild Asperger's Syndrome. But as a Teen my AS became far more pronounced, due to hormonal changes. I withdrew into my room, only left my house to go to school and during summer breaks I left my house perhaps once every month or less. I became, in my parent’s words, a House Hermit. I collected minerals and studied astronomy all day. I experienced Hikikomori.

Sumi,Satoshi, Taniai,Hiroko, Miyachi,Taishi & Tanemura,Mitsuyo, 2006. Sibling risk of pervasive developmental disorder estimated by means of an epidemiologic survey in Nagoya, Japan. Journal of Human Genetics, Vol. 51, Pages 518-522, http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s10038-006-0392-7, DOI 10.1007/s10038-006-0392-7 Diamond Dave 22/08/2006 15:23

From personal experience I can categorically state that this is indeed the case. Sioraf (talk) 18:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

"The hikikomori studied and interviewed for Zielenziger's book were not autistic, but intelligent people who have discovered independent thinking and a sense of self that the current Japanese environment cannot accommodate."

Not only is this entry uncited it implies that those diagnosed with autism are unintelligent or not intelligent by qualifying the people surveyed were intelligent people 'not autistic', this entry is offensive (particularily to those with an autism spectrum disorder) and should be removed from the wiki-article immediately. 122.104.187.135 (talk) 19:44, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm confused

"The Girl A case, or Tsutomu Miyazaki who in 1989 killed 4 girls to reenact scenes of his pornographic hentai manga."

The Girl A case and Tsutomu Miyazaki are two completely different cases. This sentence doesn't make sense. I'ld also like to see the citation for the whole hentai manga thing.Ziiv 05:09, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

1. Agreed. The article for Tsutomu_Miyazaki does not make any mention of scenes being reinacted from hentai manga. It DOES mention that one of the murders was based on a scene from one of the "Guinea Pig" movies. Unless a legit citation can be found validating the current sentance, I believe it should be changed. (In addition, I also initially believed that the sentance was stating that Tsutomu Miyazaki was responsible for the Girl A case; this should be fixed. And since the Girl A case did not involve any hikikomori, it should be noted in referencing the case that, while paralells have been drawn between Girl A's actions and hikikomori behavior, that neither Girl A nor the classmate she killed are examples of hikikomori.) --134.173.91.63 00:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Re-do

This author seems to be projecting many things into the article about Japan, gathering facts to fit his own opinion. Alot of these ideas such as the "memorisation" education system, are simply common misperceptions. --Sunawave 06:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Proposed addition to "World Wide" occurence of 'hikikomori'

This article is based on gross misinformation and stereotypes. At the very least it should be recognized that:

1. the "one million" figure has no basis whatsoever in fact. Saito Tamaki has admitted in his Japanese language autobiography that he simply made the number up to draw attention to the problem;
2. the "one million" figure is demographically implausible in the extreme. You simply could not have 20 percent of youth (and the youth market) locked up in their rooms without it producing a major impact on all sorts of industries.

After an immense amount of hype about the subject in Japan five or six years ago, hikikomori has largely dropped off the social radar screen. After hikikomori was given official recognition as a syndrome, the number of reported cases turned out to be in the low thousands. Even if there are 10 times as many who do not seek treatment as those who do, hikikomori would still be a very, very minor pschological or social pathology.

More than anything, this article demonstrates the credulity of foreigners, their willigness to believe almost any assertion that the Japanese are somehow radically different from Western norms. Others have described it as "riddled with errors." Indeed, it is, but it is also riddled with stereotypes and complete and utter nonsense.

There seems to be a good market in the US for books such as Shutting Out the Sun that portray hikikomori as one of the social pathologies that is leading Japan to self-destruction. The popularity of this nonsense simply demonstrates that foreign observers, especially American observers, have "a thing" about the Japanese and a desperate need to show that Japan suffers from a greater variety of more serious social ills than do other countries, especially the United States.

As an American who divides his time between Britain and Japan and as one who deals with 18-25 year old Japanese on a daily basis to say nothing of being a specialist in the social history of modern Japan, I must say, even if it violates talk page guidelines, that the article as it currently stands, is almost entirely rubbish. Ehk 21:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Nobody is saying that hikikomori is a phenomenon that only exists in Japan. It is highly likely to be found in other industrialized countries as well, but it hasn´t been given the same amount of attention, and "social withdrawal" doesn´t have the same connotations as hikikomori, since it is too general. Nobody is saying that the Japanese are radically different from non-Japanese or "riddled with errors" - those are your words. Exactly what is rubbish - can you be more specific? Grape, 30. April 2007

It has been frequently asserted that hikikomori is peculiar to Japan. This is the basic thrust of Shutting Out the Sun and was the basic thrust of the 2002 BBC special on the subject.

Others have pointed out the "rubbish" in the article. The generalizations about education are wildly over the top and if they had any truth, that was long ago. Only a small fraction of contemporary Japanese college students study hard to get into top universities. Something like sixty percent get in without any exam at all. Further, no one has ever demonstrated that the hikikomori as individuals or a category were among that small fraction of youth that aims for very selective colleges.

I know Japanese education (1) as a teacher at Japanese college; (2) as a specialist in Japanese education; (3) as the father of a child attending a Japanese public school. Most of what is said about education in this article is stereotypical rubbish. EHK 07-07-11

Sorry Ehk, but you're wrong. I'm studying this at the moment in Uni and there are a fair few books that quote the number. Also, it's not just "the youth market", it's people who are commonly inbetween 14 and 30 (though there are also a fair few outside this number) who are hikikomori. - "Trauma and Dissocotion in a Cross Cultural Perspective" - Gearge F. Rhoades, Vedat Sar (eds)

You will see the "more than one million" claim because writers are parroting Saito Tamaki or citing each other. Numerous Japanese writers also claim that Japanese intestines are longer than those of "Westerners," but that does not make this a medical fact anymore than frequent assertions that there are "more than one million" hikikomori make this a medical fact. Whether you take the cohort as 14 to 30 or some smaller span, one million is an implausibly large number - it is not that far from the population of cities of Kobe or Fukuoka, indeed it is not that far from the size of the Japanese military in 1940. It is several times larger than the contemporary Japanese military. You simply cannot have that many young men shut in their rooms without people noticing it, particularly young women in the same age cohort! EHK 07-07-11

Because a) it's not only men that can be hikikomori, it's women aswell, and b) it's ignored by the media because it's seen as shameful or something (can't remember exact details, been a while since I did research on it).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.172.4.43 (talk • contribs) 14:24, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Swiss Hikki: http://hikikomori.getphpbb.com/post1034.html?hilit=I\'m%20Swiss#p1034 3 Canadian Hikki, 4 American hikki (one is deceased)an English hikki and an Irish hikki,  : http://hikikomori.getphpbb.com/post777.html?hilit=Canada#p777 If that's not enough evidence I don't know what is. Sioraf (talk) 18:41, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

No, a handful of examples is absolutely not notable. This is still vastly a Japanese phenomenon, and a Japanese term. Other nations may have a different psychological term, in which case, you can write those articles. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 20:25, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

2 handfuls actually :). There is this thing in Ireland where if almost everyone in the area is ashamed of you you're too ashamed to go outside but there might already be an article about that and I'm not sure what to call it. Sioraf (talk) 16:05, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

How is this a subculture?

Why is this included in the "Japanese subcultures" infobox? It's not a subculture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drcwright (talk • contribs) 07:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

Subculture in this context should be understood as cultural phenomenon. In this framework, the article belongs clearly in this category. LHOON 08:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't say it clearly belongs. Cultural phenomenon is not synonymous with subculture. This also appears to be more of a syndrome or disorder -- not a group that a person voluntarily identifies with. Drcwright 21:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay... I'm going to remove this from the Japanese Subcultures infobox unless there's a good argument to keep it included. ALSO: I think the Japanese Subcultures box should be a template so it can be edited at a single point of access, rather than having to go to each article. No? 07:48, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I"m agreeing that it doesn't belong. ADD diagnosis is a cultural phenomenon in the United States, but that doesn't make ADD a "subculture." All of the others have identifiable common characteristics of style and culture. this one is only joined by mental disorder. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 18:10, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, to include all subcultures and (youth) cultural phenomena, also otaku should belong in the list! I am still in favour of keeping the hikikomori in the list as a typical Japanese phenomenon (probably change the title of the box accordingly to Japanese youth culture phenomena or something), and, put the box at the bottom of the page as suggested before! LHOON 21:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

The template is very nice now, and with hikikomori in the "see also" section it would be nice to include it here in the bottom. LHOON 09:51, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Hikikomori freedom

It's such a beautiful life to be a Hikikomori, the only reason is that we prefer this life, instead of the hell of the no-geek people at work, all my friends are like that ( me included ), and we are not japanese, but french, more and more young people are like that in France. American films, japanese mangas, american tv shows, Mcdonald's and so on... young french love the globalization ( french who don't like the american or the globalization don't exist, this is a myth, or maybe some old guys in some little villages ). Allowed are the video games and the hikikomori life-style ! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:81.251.188.194 (talk) 10:19, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

I also find that there is great freedom in being a hikikomori. Why bother going out where there are people who will judge and bully you at every corner, and there are also horrible things like rape and murder and school shootings? I have everything I need in my house and on the internet. I'm a happy, happy person. ...but what does this have to do with the article, anyway? 火の王国の王女 ~Fire Nation Princess~ (talk) 06:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC) (signing this under my new username; was formerly an IP address.)

I'm in about the same situation as Firenationprincess. Anyway, how about a hikkikomori userbox? It could have a picture of someone on the bed lying down with their hands behind their head, lot of manga near the bed and maybe a table next to the bed with beer on it and the text could read "This user is hikkomori and proud" or maybe the picture could be just a house with a green tick in the middle? Sioraf (talk) 18:32, 29 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sioraf (talk • contribs)

Not all doom and gloom, but lots a self denial. Yep. This article spells it out quite nicely. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solitude#Health_effects —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mzanime (talk • contribs) 08:21, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

2007

Japanese development?

Thank you to everyone who has worked on this article; it has definitely grown and expanded since I last looked at it a few weeks ago. But I am curious if anyone could create a section describing further why or how this is a uniquely Japanese phenomenon. It's not a psychological condition or disease; it's truly a cultural & social development which can therefore not happen in the same way in other cultures. I think the story of the Omani man is very interesting, but I think that the kneejerk response of assuming that all shut-ins in other countries fall under the umbrella of "hikikomori" and that it could not possibly be a uniquely Japanese development is not a correct one. Shut-ins, geeks, otaku (whether by the Japanese meaning, or the American meaning), are terms which represent a great many types of people. Some are depressed, some are not. Some are shy, some are not. Some choose to live their lives this way as a result of certain stimuli or causes, others live their lives this way because of the absence of stimuli or causes to act differently. And my impression is that "hikikomori", as represented in Shutting Out the Sun, and other books and articles, is very much a Japanese phenomenon, not only because of its causes, and its symptoms (manifestations) but also because of the way society deals with them. I feel bad to speak of American culture or Western culture because those are very large generalizations, but for the sake of argument I will say that the average Western home, or stereotypical Western home, will not deal with a hikikomori-type in the same way as a Japanese would; Americans seek help in a variety of ways, while Japanese seek to hide any source of abnormality in their family lives from the community, out of a fear of being shamed in public. And that is just as important to the phenomenon as anything else.

I have spent the better part of the last three weeks in my dorm room, associating with no one, sometimes not even leaving my room for 72+ hours except to go to the kitchen, interacting with the world only through Wikipedia, LJ and the like, and keeping waking/sleeping hours according to no natural or regular schedule. Does that make me a hikikomori? Would I be one if I were shier or lazier or quieter or more depressed than I am? No. Because being an American in a dorm room in London is not the same as being a Japanese teen or adult living in his parent's house... it's not only a different living situation and social situation, but also a completely different cultural sitation in the wider sense of how the hikikomori views the world, and how his family view him, and the rest of their world.

Anyway, I apologize for going on for so long, and so expressing such a direct view. I do not mean to start any arguments, or to stir up trouble or whatever. I just think it would an interesting thing to see discussed - surely these sources have addressed that question as well? LordAmeth 01:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

You are saying, then, that it is not the phenomenon of hikikomori in children itself that is specific to Japan, but the reaction and response in their parents and surroundings? Could it not also be that hikikomori is found in all industrialized countries but that Japan is among the first to point it out and bring it out into the open? Grape, 30. april 2007

I don't think anyone has said that all shutins, geeks, and otaku are hikikomori, and I seriously doubt many people 'choose' to be hikikomori. I've never heard of anyone becoming so because of a lack of stimuli, either. Wouldn't such a person be perfectly able to leave?

As for Western homes, yes, most wouldn't support a hikikomori, but then again, most never would become hikikomori in the first place. Japan is labeled a conformist society, yes, but I believe that Western society is even more conformist, but in different ways. A lot of Westerners are so indoctrinated into thinking they have to be social that it would never even cross their minds to withdraw; they act out in other ways, such as drugs and crime. The crime rate in the West is much, much higher than that in Japan. While most Japanese are ashamed to ADMIT having a hikikomori, most of the conditions in the West wouldn't even ALLOW for hikikomori in the first place. Most Westerners just wouldn't even bother admitting to or researching such things, and in the West, dropping out of school before a certain age is illegal, thus eliminating the problem before it starts in a lot of cases.

As for your case, there is a six-month qualification period for being a hikikomori. If you continued for five and a half months more, you could be called that, and only if you weren't in school at all. You could stay in your dorm as long as you wanted; the fact that you're IN school immediately disqualifies you.

As for Shutting Out the Sun, it's extremely biased and generalized and stereotyped. No offense intended to the author, but basically, it's complete rubbish. It contradicts itself quite obviously; it says that hikikomori never leave their rooms, but then gives examples of a boy who goes on bike rides, and in the glossary, defines a hikikomori as one who never leaves their room OR HOME. It's nonsense. 火の王国の王女 ~Fire Nation Princess~ (talk) 03:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Agorophobia?

The hikikomori sound somewhat similiar to those suffering from agorophobia, I'm not on expert on either but I'm wondering if someone who is could tell me if there's any relation? Jztinfinity 03:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure many DSM/ICD mental disorders could be diagnosed to somebody who fits under the hikikomori 'description'. Social withdrawl is part of agoraphobia, social phobia, anti-social personality disorder, schizophrenia et cetera. Most hikikomori do not visit a psychiatrist and don't usually end up diagnosed with anything in particular. There is no doubt a connection between the two though (I'm sure many of them could easily be diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder). tyx 18:26, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Agoraphobics fear leaving the house, yet will invite people in. Hikikomori aren't likely to. Antisocial personality disorder does not describe hikikomori at all. It is a misleading name, for it refers to psychopathy. People with APD do horrible things with no remorse. What you're thinking of is avoidant personality disorder. People with AvPD are terrified of criticism, rejection, and the like, and often live like hikikomori. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.63.81 (talk) 13:11, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

(signing this under my new username; was formerly an IP address.) 火の王国の王女 ~Fire Nation Princess~ (talk) 06:49, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Why?

The preceding comment is most ignorant. I don't need to explain the conceptual difference between otaku and hikikomori. You already linked to the otaku, so just look at the difference in the introductions of these two articles.Anthonzi 22:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC) Hikkikomori are similar to otaku In that they are steryotipicaly shut-in. It is said that otaku excape our world through a hobby such as trains models anime manga etc. hikkikomori are stryotyped as excaping literally by not using the internet and siting in be doing things casually instead of obsessively like the otaku. I Im relatively fluent in japanese and I was having a conversation with my friend yamashita-san and I described the word nerd in english and he said it sounded exactly like otaku yet I was trying to point out the differences. I would have disagreed before this conversation with yamashita-san but It is now my beleif that otaku is a more stryotyped nerd and the word otaku can be translated into english very easily as nerd. as for hikikomori I beleive the same. Im sure many pissed of japanese mothers who want kensuke-chan to move out call the doctor and say their son is hikikomori just to presure the child into leaving. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.128.96.52 (talk) 20:35, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Why on earth is this considered notable enough to have an article? It just seems like the Japanese term for a disorder straight out of the DSM. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.184.239.178 (talk) 14:42, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not just straight out of the DSM. The symptoms are far too varied and vague to be one diagnosis, and it's not considered a mental illness. 火の王国の王女 ~Fire Nation Princess~ (talk) 06:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC) (signing this under my new username; was formerly an IP address.)

Hikikomori=/=otaku. Otaku can have tendencies like those of hikikomori, but otaku is a subculture and hikikomori is often referred to as a "social condition."

An otaku can be a hikikomori, but that does not mean that they are one and the same. To use the "nerd" parallel made above, this is like suggesting that all nerds are shut-ins who rarely leave the home. Or, alternately, like suggesting that anyone who isolates themself from society is a nerd. Otaku can be reasonably translated as nerd, but NOT reasonably substituted for hikikomori. I think the smiley at the tail of the original talk post suggests that the question was not intended to be entirely serious. (Note, the statement above mine [and below the comment by 火の王国の王女 ]was unsigned and not written by me, although I agree with its contents)Ershin (talk) 07:46, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

University prestige

I only moved to Japan a little while ago, but I thought that the most prestigious university here was Tokyo University, not the University of Kyoto. Is the article wrong, or am I? 218.225.111.205 06:28, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

2008

Hikikomori vs Hermit

There's a term called Hermit which also describes social isolation. I would actually propose a merge, unless someone can describe a major difference between the two. KyuuA4 (talk) 19:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Looking at both articles, The Hermit article addresses isolation due to religious or philosophical reasons, where this article addresses an aknowledged psychological and social problem. In addition, both articles are fairly large, so as is, a merge would border on WP:SIZE causing it to just get split again according to WP:SUMMARY. -Verdatum (talk) 09:55, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually I would think recluse is most appropriate. The article links to Hikikomori early on. The phenomenon is Japanese in that there seems to be cultural drivers lending to a greater incidence of young people choosing to recluses. I'm not exactly sure why it needs its own article, except that sociologists and Japan's health ministry have decided to view Japan's particular type of (young) recluse as something special. "Hikikomori" is different from "recluse" like "Otaku" is different from "geek." Subtle connotative differences in language describing particular sociological phenomena within the respective cultures. Cnkimpel (talk) 20:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

OR cleanup

So there is a lot of original research here. It seems to give the topic undue weight. Entire sections seem to go into an essay tone, and while it is lovely content, it belongs in a published paper, not an encyclopedia bound by WP:V. So I'd like to start trimming these sections down. I just wanted to leave a comment a couple days in advance before making such drastic changes. I think there is a pretty good article hiding inside here :) -Verdatum (talk) 10:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Hikikomori, goals & strengths

Article should also mention many Hikikomori may end up never getting back into society that has 'rejected' them (or maybe other way around?), and many of them end up in prematurely ending their lives, giving up hope. A great addition to this article would be to investigate where most Hikikomori are succeeding, and takes they take in their life to start over again, and restore their friendships and bond with society. Hikikomori who don't work still have great potential to achieve great goals, however perhaps some lack the management and salesskill to convince others how good they can be in eg: technical fields, or perhaps in language or informatics? Wikipedia is not a doctor or psychology page, however it is allowed to add statistics on these issues on the page, which could help other Hikikomori reading to find another goal for their lives. User:98.219.91.251 19:21, 13 October 2008

• Please sign your posts by pressing shift and then inserting ~ four times. Sioraf (talk) 18:37, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

In a historical context

Maybe this is being looked at the wrong way. If these people were Buddhist monks in some other time or place, doing more or less the same as a religious practice, it would be barely noticed. In the west, there is an uncommon expression - "monkish" - for these types of people. --MacRusgail (talk) 17:20, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Needs reviews

This article seems extremely biased overall and should be reviewed by Japanese editors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.7.245.142 (talk) 04:30, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

ASAP. Sioraf (talk) 18:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

This is a brutal article; one of the worst I've seen. There are frequent statements about hikikomori being a Japanese phenomenon but no statistics offering comparison with other nations. This article should be cleaned up or yanked. April 8 2009 22:44 JST. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.218.7.212 (talk) 13:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

The article reeks of denialism as in Holocaust denialism and AIDS denialism. Sioraf (talk) 14:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Terrible article indeed but this has not really been researched at all outside of Japan. Very hard to write anything on it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.158.64.93 (talk) 23:09, 16 November 2009 (UTC)