Talk:Helsinki

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Helsinki is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.

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January 24, 2006	Featured article candidate	Not promoted

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"University of Applied Science" does not have anything to do with a university

Could somebody fix this nonsense? These are educational institutions preparing people for all manner of blue-collar jobs, and sometimes maybe low-level white-collar jobs. None of the indicators of the institution being a uni is there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.233.179.227 (talk) 12:49, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sinun snobiutesi ei ole mittari sille, mikä on mainitsemisen arvoinen oppilaitos ja mikä ei. Nämä ovat isoja oppilaitoksia, jotka kouluttavat suuria määriä ihmisiä ja täten ovat tärkeitä Helsingille. Sinun vanhentuneet käsityksesi työllistymismahdollisuuksista tai huvittava keinotekoinen luokkajako, jota yrität puskea eivät ole mitattavissa joten ne eivät toimi kriteereinä oppilaitoksen tärkeydelle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.76.87.85 (talk) 15:54, 8 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The official translation of "ammattikorkeakoulu" in the names of the schools is "university of applied sciences". Because of the Bologna process, the Finnish ammattikorkeakoulu's have been developing towards actual universities, and while they do produce new knowledge like universities, they haven't been only about blue-collar jobs and low-level white-collar jobs for a long time. 88.195.139.46 (talk) 08:09, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think there are two questions here: 1) What to call each individual institution in English, and 2) how we should refer to this class of institution in general (e.g. in the heading). To the first question, since each of the institutions in question call themselves "University of Applied Science" in their English materials ([1], [2]), that is what we should call them here when specifically referring to each institution. To the second question, the term "university of applied science" is not a common term in English, and thus shouldn't be used as a section heading to generically refer to these institutions. Thus, I would support either just rolling these into the main list of universities, or renaming the section to "Other institutions". To address the Finnish-language IP comments above, this doesn't have anything to do with snobbery or the importance or size of the institutions; it's just that there is no common equivalent English term for this concept. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 17:37, 8 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is still wrong to call these "universities of applied science" universities, as they are not universities how the term is widely understood. Only Aalto University and University of Helsinki are real universities. The term "university of applied science" is silly, as pointed out earlier, as most of these institutions do research only very marginally or not at all, and do not have the broad selection of different faculties expected from a university, and do not grant higher academic degrees. Even Aalto University is not really a "full" university, lacking humanities, law, societal science, and most life sciences. However, Aalto University works at the highest international level in the many areas it covers, and grants also Ph.D. degrees, and is clearly a research university. Listing the other institutions as "universities" is misleading, and gives a funny impression of what Finnish universities are like. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.92.14.190 (talk) 14:11, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

They were polytechnics - which can be seen in the UK before 1993 when they all became universities. Finland has undergone the same process. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.249.7.24 (talk) 17:10, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Northernmost metro area of over one million people?

The article says that "It is the world's northernmost metro area of over one million people", yet the article it links to says this is Saint Petersburg. Is there a source for the Helsinki statement? - quispiam^talk [Anton Nordenfur] 23:34, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Helsinki has about 600,000 within city limits but over 1,000,000 in the metro area. So, while Helsinki is located north of St. Petersburg, it can't claim the northernmost city of over 1,000,000 inhabitants (within city limits), but can claim northernmost metro area of more than 1 million: Arkhangelsk is the largest Russian city north of the 60th parallel, and has way less than 1 million in the metro area. Oslo and Stockholm, are contenders, but are both located slightly south of Helsinki (Oslo actually at the same latitude as St. Petersburg.) Norway and Sweden have no other cities with over 1,000,000 in the metro area. Alaska, Greenland and Iceland have no cities or metro areas >1 million, and all the metro areas of Canada over 1 million are located south of Helsinki. As these are all the world's territories that reach beyond the 60th parallel, it can be concluded that the claim is legitimate. So no source, but hope this suffices. --hydrox (talk) 03:07, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why are there two sections about the name with virtually the same information?

213.250.71.250 (talk) 08:33, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The two sections have now been merged. Migro (talk) 17:56, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll also add that the term Hesa is not exclusively used by people from the countryside, it's used virtually universally outside of Helsinki (and its surrounding areas) itself. It's used by people in Turku, for example, which is not in the countryside. Presently it's referred to in the article as a term used by people from the countryside in both the info box and the etymology section. BajES328 (talk) 14:34, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removing some recent edits

I don't like to remove large chunks of text without a note, so here it is: I intend to revert this large chunk of recently added text. It's either speculative original research ("The expensive public transport tickets aim to support and increase the private traffic"), a coatrack for unrelated issues ("China is an authoritarian one-party state"), or downright bizarre ("Public transport lines are occupied with skyscraper since most women dislike skyscrapers and more women use public transport than men"). Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 16:45, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Pihlajasaari is misrepresented

Pihjalasaari is a very popular island with boaters and families. It has a popular guest harbor and a good sandy beach. On hot summer weekends there are big queues of families waiting for the ferries to/from the island. There is even a recreation centre for old age pensioners on the island.

This article misrepresents the island by emphasizing the nudist beach and gay men. This is a very small part of the island. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldhigsonian (talk • contribs) 19:06, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline of Helsinki

What is missing from the city timeline? Please add relevant content. Thank you. M2545 (talk) 11:33, 19 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation

Helsingfors is said to be pronounced [hɛlsɪŋˈfɔʂ], but I, who speak quite standard Finland Swedish, would never pronounce it like that, rather (though I'm not so good with IPA) [hɛlsɪŋˈfɔrs]. I think that hɛlsɪŋˈfɔʂ is how it's pronounced in Sweden. This has been discussed in archive 1 under the title 'Pronunciation' because of the same problem for 9 years ago. There is probably no file with the correct pronunciation, but I think the file with the wrong pronunciation should be removed and [hɛlsɪŋˈfɔʂ] should be replaced with [hɛlsɪŋˈfɔrs], or removed. It is better with no information than wrong information. K9re11 (talk) 02:30, 26 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have now removed the file with the incorrect pronunciation and hidden the [hɛlsɪŋˈfɔʂ]. Somebody who knows these IPA-things better can fix the correct pronunciation. K9re11 (talk) 12:59, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Transcriptions linked to Help:IPA for Swedish are the Stockholm pronunciation, in which [hɛlsɪŋˈfɔʂ] is the only correct realization. Peter238 (talk) 16:39, 28 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's the same thing as giving the American pronunciation for a city in Britain. [hɛlsɪŋˈfɔʂ] is correct what it comes to Stockholm pronunciation, but Helsinki is in Finland, and the Swedish spoken there differs from Stockholm Swedish. K9re11 (talk) 19:44, 29 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, then go ahead and add the Finnish column to Help:IPA for Swedish. Peter238 (talk) 20:19, 29 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think that guys here, need to know better about the language before to change or add some identity sources. AlfaRocket (talk) 12:41, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It would be preferable if the pronunciation audio of Helsingfors (the Swedish name) were in Finland Swedish, rather than Stockholm Swedish as it is at the moment. Could we have a native speaker of Finland Swedish pronounce it instead? @K9re11: Could you upload a recording and replace it? --Lundgren8 (t · c) 23:34, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Systemic error

This article seems to have (had) a size crisis. Many phrases, intentionally or otherwise, have emphasized the largeness of certain elements of the city, be it neighborhoods or population density. As Wikipedia’s goal is to provide for articles that are as neutral in tone as relevant, I’ve removed and replaced some of those in the hopes of bringing this to a Good Article status in the future. Cheers, Pessimistipasta (talk) 00:17, 4 January 2018 (UTC) Pessimistipasta (talk) 00:17, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

On the subject of abbreviations

The article mentions the city's English-language abbreviation as "HEL". As I understand it, that's used more often to apply to Helsinki Airport. Any reputable sources backing this up would be much appreciated. -Pessimistipasta (talk) 15:35, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are quite right. So I have removed it for now until any sources can be found. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:07, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation - stress

On what basis is this edit a "correction"? BBC English is to always stress first syllable. Please note that the current version is one of long-standing consensus and is supported by two WP:RS sources. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:46, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed hel-SINK-ee sounds alien to natives, easily interpretable as 'hel sinki': two separate words. Furthermore, the syllables should be divided as HEL-sing-kee in the pronunciation guide, not as HEL-sink-ee. A native would not pause after the k sound. But if this helps an English speaker not to produce too much fortis pronunciation, as is normal in the English words like 'key' (heard as khi/khii in Finnish), then the practice is understandable, and is to be allowed to remain as the version producing the desired result. --TiM19fi (talk) 15:10, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Finnish National Theatre.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:07, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Language totals differ

The info BOX (which I cannot see how to edit) has different language totals from the article. Can someone that can edit fix this to the uptodate totals. In any case they are misleading as the Finnishg system only records one mother language per person and some people are bilingual (as you must pass a swedish test to graduate university it can be argued there are a lot more swedish speakers than suggested by this figure) or even trilingual and this is not recorded in the data collected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.249.7.24 (talk) 17:14, 11 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Skyscrapers

There is the image of a high-rise apartment building (134 meters tall), with a link to the article on "skyscrapers", which starts by saying that a skyscraper is a building taller than 150 meters. This is an inconsistency. The easiest way to fix this is to not use the word "skyscraper" here. I am sure there is a lot of resistance to this from some quarters, but I think it should still be fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.92.14.190 (talk) 13:58, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Population by mother tongue"-infobox

The "Population by mother tongue" infobox in Language is quite informative, but completely hidden at the moment except for it's title. I suggest showing 2-5 rows, with a text "Other mother tongues [show]". What do you think? robertsilen (talk) 08:51, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1713 burning of the city

Per the cited source (which in turn cites the second cited source), the Swedes didn't succeed in burning the entire city down. I've updated the text to better reflect the source. In addition, the source further indicates that the Russians finished the job the Swedes started. I haven't added any additional text for that, although for the sake of neutrality it would be a good idea to do so. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 10:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tap water discussion in “Economy” section

When reading the article, I was surprised to find a description of the tap water in the "economy" section.

Should this be moved to another section? MashyTot (talk) 16:12, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

44 high rises in Kalasatama

see "Helsinki karttapalvelu" you will find e.g. Kalasatama map. Click the map and count how many high rises there are now and will be in 15 years Uslager (talk) 14:56, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.hel.fi/fi/kaupunkiymparisto-ja-liikenne/kaupunkisuunnittelu-ja-rakentaminen/uutta-helsinkia-rakentamassa/kalasatama#kaavat-ja-suunnitelmat

up to date map (kartta in Finnish). You will find every single building in Kalasatama. If u can count to 44 you will find out. And now, the rest of you do not change anything, just leave to me. I know, u dont Uslager (talk) 19:11, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Uslager, is this topic the same as the one in your previous post, or a different one? It might be better if you combined them, or chose a shorter title for this one. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:18, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

so u could not count to 44? I have corrected so many of your "facts" that why dont u just give up and add 44 high-rises within 10 years or should I do? Uslager (talk) 19:37, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So "my facts"? Sorry, which ones are they? And what exactly am I "giving up" on? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:02, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

oldest church, Trigoni was not cancelled 2023 but 2023, only 15 high-rises in Kalasatama etc etc Uslager (talk) 16:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

sorry, Trigoni was cancelled in 2021 not 2023 as u claimed Uslager (talk) 16:36, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've claimed nothing. I have no idea what Trigoni is. Or was. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:46, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About these latest edits...

I think maybe someone should take a closer look at these latest edits by Uslager. Especially the section about Helsinki's architecture might need some kind of structuring and tidying up... Juustila (talk) 18:55, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ole hiljaa mongoli metsäläinen 2001:999:508:3599:A1CF:C33E:9AFC:55F0 (talk) 19:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can very well have a more substantive discussion than settling for immature name-calling... Uslager. Juustila (talk) 21:50, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

eli tajusit mitä sanoin? Sori siitä 2001:999:508:3599:A1CF:C33E:9AFC:55F0 (talk) 21:52, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of course I understood 100% what you said because I'm native Finn. I just don't use Finnish language because we are in English Wikipedia and no one would understand this conversation. Juustila (talk) 22:12, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome to carry on a conversation in Finnish on your own talk pages, but please use English here. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:27, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Functionalism and modern architecture" section

This article's main focus is Helsinki and should not become an architecture article. Please limit coverage to finished projects (maybe just mention the three tallest buildings?) and don't go into so much detail. It might be better to start a new article (Architecture of Helsinki?), per WP:SPINOFF, of this content. There more detail would be appropriate. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:38, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

u dont like history? If u did u would understand the huge change in Helsinki with all those new high-rises. One could call it revolutionary. But I understand your point. Uslager (talk) 19:37, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I love history. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 20:35, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

btw, what is Helskinki? Uslager (talk) 19:39, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

LOL! A typo. Fixed it. Now it redirects to Architecture of Finland, so maybe that's the place for more detailed descriptions. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 20:35, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm done. I've written everything what I wanted to. Uslager (talk) 21:08, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead sentence

The lead sentence as follows:

Helsinki (/ˈhɛlsɪŋki/ HEL-sink-ee or /hɛlˈsɪŋki/ hel-SINK-ee;^[1]^[2] Finnish: [ˈhelsiŋki] ; Swedish: Helsingfors, Finland Swedish: [helsiŋˈforːs] ) is the capital and most populous city in Finland.

violates MOS:LEAD, and should be tidied up to enhance readability. In particular, it violates:

MOS:LEADCLUTTER - "Avoid cluttering the first sentence with a long parenthesis containing alternative spellings, pronunciations, etc., which can make the sentence difficult to actually read."
MOS:LEADPRON - "It is preferable to move pronunciation guides to a footnote or elsewhere in the article if they would otherwise clutter the first sentence."
MOS:LEADLANG - "Foreign-language names should be moved to a footnote or elsewhere in the article if they would otherwise clutter the first sentence."

If anyone can point to anything in MOS:LEAD that supports a contrary view, please share here on the talk page. Thanks. CUA 27 (talk) 20:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The lead sentence is now revised as follows. It is now much more readable, and the pronunciation guides are still maintained:

Helsinki^[3]^[4] is the capital and most populous city in Finland.

Please discuss here any further suggestions. CUA 27 (talk) 15:10, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree However, this policy affects many articles of the settlements. (cities, towns etc.). A broad consensus among users would be desirable. But this is a good start. Peltimikko (talk) 17:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Helsinki". The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (5th ed.). HarperCollins.
^ "Helsinki". Collins English Dictionary. HarperCollins.
^ /ˈhɛlsɪŋki/ HEL-sink-ee or /hɛlˈsɪŋki/ hel-SINK-ee "Helsinki". The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (5th ed.). HarperCollins. "Helsinki". Collins English Dictionary. HarperCollins.
^ Finnish: [ˈhelsiŋki] Swedish: Helsingfors, Finland Swedish: [helsiŋˈforːs]

Helsinki doesn't have a flag

There is currently a flag in the infobox despite the fact that there's officially no such thing. The flag shown is simply an edited version of the coat of arms. There are no sources on the page for there being a flag nor does there seem to be any sources for it anywhere at all. In the official guide on the usage of city symbols, the only mention of a flag states that "Private individuals, associations, companies and other communities in Helsinki may use the coat of arms in their flag, membership pins or products, for example." Therefore the flag on Wikipedia is unofficial at best and should not be included here. Regardless, I, a person who has lived in Helsinki, have never seen even a photo of the flag being used. KurkkuStadist (talk) 17:20, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Swedish name removed from intro?

To be in line with most other Finnish cities on Wikipedia where the Swedish name is present right after the Finnish one (Vaasa/Vasa, Turku/Åbo etc.), the same should be added to this page, no? 130.241.134.17 (talk) 13:52, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It has not been removed. It is in the footnote to reduce clutter. Mellk (talk) 19:08, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Helsinki". The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (5th ed.). HarperCollins.

[2] "Helsinki". Collins English Dictionary. HarperCollins.

[3] /ˈhɛlsɪŋki/ HEL-sink-ee or /hɛlˈsɪŋki/ ^ⓘ hel-SINK-ee "Helsinki". The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (5th ed.). HarperCollins. "Helsinki". Collins English Dictionary. HarperCollins.

[4] Finnish: [ˈhelsiŋki] ^ⓘ Swedish: Helsingfors, Finland Swedish: [helsiŋˈforːs] ^ⓘ

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]