Talk:Hegira (disambiguation)

Majherpara

it is a locality in ichapore. here exist many schools alike nothland high school and primary girls high school. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.184.13.162 (talk) 11:11, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hijra (Islam) is surely primary by a mile

as "What links here" demonstrates. This, and the redirects should go to Hijra (disambiguation) Johnbod (talk) 13:55, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've just repaired 13 links to this page. Four intended Hijra (Islam), four Hijiri year, three Hijra (South Asia), and one each intended Hejira (album) and Migration to Abyssinia. Presumably the case was different when Johnbod commented last year. I don't see anything that is "primary by a mile" based on this mixture. Cnilep (talk) 02:09, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. @Bkonrad and Cnilep: I tried to find Hijra (South Asia) recently and Hijra redirected me to Hegira, which has the dab hatnote "Several terms redirect here. For other uses, see Hegira (disambiguation)", that I actually missed at first. Even I as a seasoned Wikipedian was confused by that. Where's the article I was looking for? Where's the dab page for Hijra, for crying out loud? If I fail to make the connection, surely average readers will fare even worse and frustratedly leave the website without finding what they were looking for. There has to be a better solution. And when you claim that Hegira is the primary topic for Hijra, don't just assert it – prove it. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 22:50, 29 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that User:Korny O'Near turned the disambiguation page into a redirect with this bold edit in February of this year. Florian Blaschke's revert is in the spirit of WP:BRD. Prior to Korny O'Near's edits, 'Hijra' with this spelling was not included at Hegira (disambiguation). Maybe User:Bkonrad did not notice those edits or the two discussions below. Past discussions aimed at moving the DAB so that this title points to the content currently at Hegira (formerly 'Hijra (Islam)') have not found consensus to do so. And, as Florian notes, redirecting to 'Hegira (disambiguation)' is really confusing to people looking for Hijra (South Asia). If the page is to be moved or redirected, I think that needs a new discussion. Cnilep (talk) 07:06, 30 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am aware of the history. I really don't have much of an opinion about primary topic for this term. If the edits of @Korny O'Near: are to be undone, then at least undo them completely so that there are not duplicate disambiguation pages. older ≠ wiser 10:33, 30 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved, no current indication of primary topic, as Cnilep observed. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:14, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hijra → Hijra (disambiguation) – As stated above by Johnbod, Hijra should redirect to Hijra (Islam) as that is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Nevertheless I have started this discussion as it is a longstanding disambiguation page, mainly because of the unrelated meaning at Hijra (South Asia). – Fayenatic London 12:36, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't Hijra (Islam) be moved to Hijra, in that case? --BDD (talk) 15:08, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment shouldn't "Hijira (Islam)" be moved to Hegira instead of here? -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 21:13, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose; I don't see an obvious primary topic for this name. Both Hindi हिजड़ा and Arabic هِجْرَة‎ are transliterated as hijra (and sometimes other ways, too). Neither India's "third gender" nor the prophet Muhammad's migration to Medina is obviously more notable or more central to a worldwide English readership. A Google search for {hijra -Wikipedia}, for example, seems to turn up lots of references to both meanings, plus some unrelated ones. Cnilep (talk) 01:41, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move

The result of this RfC is that there is no consensus as to what the primary topic is and so the result is not moved. Wugapodes (talk) 17:32, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

So far numerous editors have pointed out that The Hijra is the Hijra. Fixing the current misplacement has been supported by the few people who visit a dab's talk page, except for Cnilep.

Cnilep is simply wrong. The Islamic migration to Medina is and will remain far more notable and central to worldwide English readership. Perfectly correct that vanilla & book Google searches for "Hijra" tend to discuss the Indian gender. However, the Islamic usage crushes others in Scholar and that points to the problem. The editors here got ahead of themselves moving away from the ENGLISH COMMONNAME of the Hegira. Hegira links directly here: Google shows the Islamic usage crushing any others. Hijrah links directly here: Google shows the Islamic usage crushing any others.

It's probably valid that the spelling Hijra isn't used in English for the Islamic migration except among specialists. Doesn't matter. As long as our article on it is at "Hijra" and "Hegira" and "Hijrah" are pointing at "Hijra", it is the PRIMARYTOPIC and we need to stop forcing users to type needless title dabs in their links and endure additional click-throughs to get to the topic they're looking for. — $Llywelyn II$ 12:53, 10 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Support: move the article Hijra (Islam) to "Hijra", and move this dab page to Hijra (disambiguation). Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. In English language, in Google Scholar and Google Books, the terms "Hijrah" and "Hegira" that point here normally refer to the migration of the group of early Muslims in 622 CE to Medina. Khestwol (talk) 14:02, 10 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Strong disagree While historically Hijra has primarily referred to the islamic migration, the majority of modern sources and searches are for the indian transgender identity. Almost the entire first page of a google books result and most of the results from then on are about the indian identity. News results are pretty evenly mixed. Scholar results split on age lines with older papers being more focussed on the migration but newer tending towards the indian term. I don't believe there is a clear primary topic. Hijra (islam) had 18,950 visitors so far this month and 42,376 in the last 90 days. Hijra (South Asia) had 6,854 and 67,410. It's not clear which is primary and to say which WILL be primary is predictive SPACKlick (talk) 09:25, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: this dab page covers three terms. As the nom elaborated Hijrah and Hegira also link to here. Khestwol (talk) 10:08, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The proposal is that Hijra (Islam) is primary for Hijra. I oppose that motion. Hijra has ambiguous primacy and in the last 90 days Hijra (South Asia) has been primary by 61 to 39, nearly 50% more traffic. so for Hijra, a dab is appropriate. Whether it's appropriate to seperate and cross link the various transliterations (Hijra, Hijrah, Hegira, Hegirah, Hijira, Hijirah) is an entirely different question not asked here.SPACKlick (talk) 10:28, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support The primary meaning for English readership of the word is historically clear (as one of the opponents of the move has also indicated). What new developments might bring is not for us to second guess at this moment. And certainly not on the basis of internet searches and / or ideas we may have about the number of recent sources one way or the other. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 02:12, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree - This is the English Wikipedia, and the cultural references are important, particularly Greg Bear's seminal novel. Usages in other cultures, not so much. I see most English language references to the Islamic pilgrimage as being of "the Haj", and that should be our primary article for the event, as opposed to some less familiar term. --Pete (talk) 00:21, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The Hajj and the Hijra (Islam) are two very different, but important concepts in Islam, the world's second largest religion. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 18:15, 5 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree - There is no clear-cut answer as to which is more significant, therefore the disambiguation page as it is now seems more appropriate, especially considering all the aternate spellings of the Islamic term, several of which are more common than this spelling.John, AF4JM (talk) 00:33, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support The Islamic hijra is obviously the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Hijra+Islam has nearly 2x as many Google Books hits as Hijra+India, without accounting for alternative Arabic transliterations. Move Hijra (Islam) here (add a hatnote to Hijra (South Asia) and a link to a disambiguation page), and move this page to a disambiguation page. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 18:07, 5 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Hegira (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:18, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]