Talk:Harvey Karp

Some proposed changes - re: Living Biography

I’m Dr. Harvey Karp. I’ve read the disagreements on this talk page and in the editing history. I’m requesting the help of neutral editors to make my bio more encyclopedic and balanced. Suggestions below. Thanks!

Please update the Career section to include recent milestones

-I'm co-founder and CEP of Happiest Baby, Inc., based in Santa Monica, CA. (2001)

-Happiest Baby’s 1st technology product, SNOO smart sleeper, launched Oct. 2016. I developed SNOO with industrial designer Yves Behar and a team of MIT-trained engineers. The press extensively covered SNOO’s unique technology. It’s the 1st /only baby bed to use smart technology to detect and respond to a baby cries with sound and motion, to calm fussing and improve sleep. And it's the 1st/ only baby bed with a clip-in swaddle that prevents infants from rolling onto the stomach, keeping them on the back while sleeping. For context: Back-sleeping is shown to reduce infant risk for SIDs; https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/baby/sleep/Pages/A-Parents-Guide-to-Safe-Sleep.aspx

SUGGESTED SOURCES. Wall Street Journal, Parents, The Guardian, Fast Company. You'll find others via web search.

NOTE: See history for corrections to dates/locations inaccuracies re: my years practicing pediatrics. Noting this per living biography instructions.

In the Infant Calming and Sleep section

Several studies have evaluated the efficacy of the 5 S’s in reducing crying/improving sleep. Please add so this bio offers a more balanced discussion of my work. See related note below.

-In 2004, Boulder Colorado Department of Health nurses presented the effect of teaching 42 at-risk families. They reported that 41/ 42 (98%) of families noted a substantial improvement in their ability to calm the fussing. SOURCE: Adler M. Promoting maternal child health by teaching parents to calm fussy infants at the Boulder Colorado Department of Health. Presented: CDC CityMatCH Urban MCH Leadership Conf; Aug 28, 2007; Denver, CO. (3rd link downloads PDF)

-Studies at Penn State University demonstrated substantial benefits from a soothe/sleep intervention, which use the 5 S’s as a key component. Benefits include improved infant sleep, improved maternal satisfaction - and when combined with simple dietary advice – a significant reduction in the incidence of obesity at 1 year of age.

SOURCES: Paul IM, et al, Preventing Obesity during Infancy: A Pilot Study, Obesity, 2011,19; 353-61; Anzman‐Frasca, S, et al. Infants' Transitions out of a Fussing/Crying State Are Modifiable and Are Related to Weight Status. 2013 Infancy 18: 662-686.; Anzman-Frasca, S, et al. Negative temperament as a moderator of intervention effects in infancy: testing a differential susceptibility model. Prevention Science 2014 15: 643-653.

Virginia’s Children’s Hospital of the King’s Daughter research showed the 5 S’s significantly reduced pain scores and crying time among 2- and 4-month-old infants during vaccinations.

SOURCE: Harrington JW, et al. Effective Analgesia Using Physical Interventions for Infant Immunizations. Pediatrics. 2012; 129:815-22

In the Criticism section:

-Please remove the following statement. See notes above for studies discussing my work. “No aspect of Karp's calming techniques concerning the psychological or physical consequences on babies has ever been discussed by the scientific community.”

I appreciate your help with this. Dr harvey karp (talk) 01:21, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Wow, now Karp himself an his page, not just socket puppets!

Karp is trying to use wikipedia for self-advertisement. Why should a product by a pediatrician be mentioned in an encyclopedia? Oh. the pediatrician is also an entrepreneur - and therefor needs advertisement? Is that the argument?

And again: Karp urges "sombody" to help him, and delivers such "sources" as: "Presented: CDC CityMatCH Urban MCH Leadership Conf; Aug 28, 2007; Denver, CO. (3rd link downloads PDF)". I downloaded this "source" and found 4 pages of a powerpoint presentation, advertising Karps's products, with the logo of his usual businness activities. No hint to any scientific activity at all! Completely obviously Karp is trying to use the internet for tricks. Or does he really believe this kind of "source" is a source? Mr. bobby (talk) 13:36, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Request marked as "declined" per concerns expressed above. If you modify the proposed changes to be less promotional, you may relist the edit request. Regards, VB00 (talk) 16:33, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

this is not an encyclopedic article at all!

This article is not encyclopedic, it is in many passages simply advertisement for the several products of this pediatrician. The article uses links to commercial sites which are run by Karp or his colleagues. Mr. bobby (talk) 10:22, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

@Mr. bobby: could you point out which links in the article are for commercial sites run by Karp or his colleagues? —Laoris (talk) 21:23, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

I took out all those links and misleading self advertisement from this article. Now, I won't search for them again. Sorry. This article once was pure praising and advertisement, with much information by single-purpose accounts! Mr. bobby (talk) 10:18, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Third Opinion

Per a discussion relevant to this article going on at a user talk page ([1]):

Response to third opinion request (Disagreement on neutrality of information):

I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Harvey Karp and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

To sum things up, Gladys has added information about a company founded by Karp and a product that this company sells. Bobby disagrees with the addition, claiming that it is advertisement and that Gladys is a single-purpose account. Opinion: Bobby is right that Wikipedia does not allow for self-promotion or advertising (per WP:NOTADVERTISING); however, Gladys' additions are reliably sourced and balanced by criticism (although not properly placed in the article). The information is cited by The Guardian, The Washington Post, and The Wall Street Journal. Gladys' addition of criticism is far too separated from the inclusion of the product. This decision raises reasonable doubts about whether or not Gladys' intentions were to fairly criticize the product, or simply to hide the criticism in the large wall of text that is the "criticism" section for this article (which is in dire need of improvement for readability). See also: Wikipedia:Writing better articles. Based on the article's history and Gladys' contribution, it seems that Bobby's claim about SPA-editing is reasonable and should be further discussed at the appropriate venue. See WP:COI. That other editors are also suddenly appearing to add information, such as User:Nora Stang, might indicate equally serious cases of sock puppetry and paid editing. I highly recommend that Bobby or another interested party take this matter to the Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard for further scrutiny, and also suggest for any further suspicious activity from multiple users to be reviewed by at the Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations. Thank you for requesting a Third Opinion. Have a great day!-- MarshalN20 Talk 22:34, 8 December 2016 (UTC) Thanks for the third opinion MarshallN20! I added criticism in the critism section because that was how the article was structured. Neutral facts in the career section, criticism in that section. I am concerned about what Mr. Bobby said on his talk page being COI about his worries that the product is potentially dangerous, a statement that conveys bias.Thanks again Marshall! Gladysc2016 (talk) 23:58, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Requesting Help Re: Living biography, 2/17/17

I am asking for help re: the Living Biography policy. Admittedly, I am new here and have posted our of order before. I fear it will be more confusing to reorder posts so I will date any new post I add.

Respectfully, I ask that user Mr. bobby follow these guidelines re: newcomers: “Please do not bite the newcomers. If someone does something against custom, assume it was an unwitting mistake. You should politely and gently point out their mistake, reference the relevant policy/guideline/help pages, and suggest a better approach.” I am grateful for helpful direction, like the advice given by user VB00.

I am reposting my previous request hoping that a neutral editor work on this.

I’ve read the policies on living biographies and have taken advice from user VB00 (talk) I am asking for the help of an editor to update my page with the latest in my career. I am no longer actively running my pediatric practice, I run a smart technology company. Feel free to rewrite in your own words off the sources provided below. I really appreciate the community's help!

I’ve read the policies on living biographies and have taken advice from user VB00 (talk) I am asking for the help of an editor to update my page with the latest in my career. I am no longer practicing pediatrics, I run a smart technology company. Feel free to rewrite in your own words off the sources provided below. I really appreciate the community's help!

Harvey Karp is cofounder and CEO of Happiest Baby, Inc. The company's debut product is SNOO smart sleeper, a smart technology baby bed that detects a baby's cries with sensors and responds with white noise and rocking motion to soothe the baby and help the baby sleep. SNOO was created with the help of designer Yves Béhar and MIT-trained engineers.

Sources: Coverage of SNOO's Oct. 17 launch was first published by the Wall Street Journal and Wired - both on Oct. 18

Here are more outlets that covered the launch and you can google more:  Inc.

Parents Magazine

Architectural Digest

The Today Show

Slate

CNN Money

Thank you. Harvey Karp MD (talk) 16:55, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

References

The portion of the WSJ article that is visible for free does refer to Karp as a pediatrician. —C.Fred (talk) 17:04, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Hello C.Fred. I am a pediatrician. I am not actively seeing patients in my private practice like I used to. On a daily basis, I am running the smart technology company Happiest Baby, which is why I am requesting this career update. Thanks for looking at my request.Harvey Karp MD (talk) 17:41, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

@Harvey Karp MD: The article indicates that your current occupation is as a professor. Do you have a reliable source that shows you've stepped down from that position? Or are you teaching while running the company? —C.Fred (talk) 17:46, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

sockpuppets working on this article!

My impression is that this article is abused for personal advertisement. And also that sockpuppets are used for this purpose. "AccidentalLichens" is here at WP since February 2017. Look at the talk page: "Delivered by HostBot on behalf of the Teahouse hosts. 16:04, 19 February 2017 (UTC)" Mr. bobby (talk) 21:10, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi Mr. bobby. I'm not a sock puppet, but a new user who is just editing interesting looking random articles (y'all can see the rest of my contributions, right?). I assumed that is why I got the Teahouse message. Does it actually indicate something else? Also, sorry for editing this page that you clearly care deeply about!

I was mostly trying to update information, because, as far as the reputable sources indicate, Harvey Karp has mostly been working on this new product. I tried to be as neutral as possible by putting that he claims it is helpful in getting babies to sleep and not putting that it is helpful.

I also tried to make the 'Criticism' section less of a wall of text by putting the subheadings and separating the ideas into different paragraphs (e.g. the criticism that he is just riding on the fame of his patients is completely separate from the criticism that it is dangerous if people lay their babies on their stomachs). These subheadings and paragraphs should make it easier for people to understand the fundamental reasons why people debate Karp, because if it is too jumbled, people may just skip over the whole section. Also I tried to cite a source to support your claim that swaddling was "obviously" effective at altering consciousness, because right now it comes across as an unfounded and overly enthusiastic claim (i.e. if something is obvious then it must be easy to cite, so it looks weird if we can't provide sources to back up this claim. Also, most academic/scientific/encyclopedic writings don't write that something is "obvious," because in science you can only reject the null hypothesis that swaddling does not affect consciousness, not confirm that it does for certain).

How should we work together to fix this page? AccidentalLichens (talk) 22:17, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Cost of the Snoo

Mr. bobby, I saw that you reverted my edits on the "Cost of the Snoo." You called this an advertisement but I have to disagree with this. THese are critiques and not promotion of the product. And I used well-respected sources (NYT, WaPo). Looking at the talk page, I see that there's a history of Harvey Karp himself adding info about the snoo but I don't think that my edits should be considered as the same as his advertisemenst...especially because my edits provide a balanced critique of the snoo.

Can you elaborate on how my edits violate WP:PROMO?

--Ew3234 (talk) 23:01, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

This is very clear advertising (involuntary?): There are now 2 headlines that deal with the product of this ex-pediatrician. It comes to the fact that the headline is bold (inadmissible). The content of the new entries does not seem encyclopedic to me, nor does the criticism. This does not work at all in my opinion. "Cost of the snoo" is anything but an encyclopedic heading. That has to go. Besides, such a discussion does not belong here. Omitting improves the article. It needs another opinion. Mr. bobby (talk) 22:03, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

I disagree with your claim that this is "very clear advertising" - it discusses a commercial product but that does not violate WP:PROMO. Karp is known for creating the Snoo - omitting it detracts from the topic of Karp in the same way that not covering the Kellogg cereal on the Dr. Kellogg wikipedia article detracts from the reader's understanding of the topic. Can you please point to how this violates WP:PROMO? That is the true test of advertising here.

You say that "The content of the new entries does not seem encyclopedic to me, nor does the criticism." I don't know of any Wikipedia guidelines on "encyclopedic." But the high cost of the product does seem like a criticism to me. I updated the text to make the criticism clearer.

If you'd like, I can create a separate article on the Snoo.

Let's get another opinion on this edit, as you suggest.

Ew3234 (talk) 22:42, 23 February 2022 (UTC)