Talk:Harry S. Truman/Archive 5

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Military rank

The article states that Truman rose to the rank of Colonel in the National Guard after WWI. There is no reference to support this, and the article List of United States Presidents by military rank states that his highest rank was Major. --rogerd (talk) 20:50, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

According to the Truman Library, he was a colonel, but in the Army Reserves.[1] Ditto for Grolier.[2] --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 21:39, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I have fixed List of United States Presidents by military rank, List of United States Presidents by military service and this article. --rogerd (talk) 22:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for catching that. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 01:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

middle name

It should be mentioned that is middle name is just S. and S. does not stand for anything —Preceding unsigned comment added by Banana254 (talk • contribs) 01:57, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

See Harry S. Truman#Truman's_middle_initial and the FAQ above. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 10:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

An initial, by definition, stands for something. His middle name is "S". A period implies that the end of the middle name was left off. It wasn't his middle name was simply "S". Unless it can be demonstrated that his middle name was an S followed by a period, this should be changed. 75.118.170.35 (talk) 12:13, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Number of Wikipedia biopages with the full middle name written out in the lead-in: >1000. Number of Wikipedia biopages with just the middle initial followed by a period: 1. Omega697 (talk) 05:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

In effect, the "S." stood for 2 different names (Shipp and Solomon) and that's explained in the article. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 05:04, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

And there's no rule that a letter followed by a period has to stand for something. Consider Johnny Cash, whose birth name was J. R. Cash, and who eventually adopted the legal name of John R. Cash (not "John R Cash") despite the fact the "R." stood for nothing in particular. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 05:06, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I understand that his middle name is just "S", and I understand where it comes from. I also understand that when writing a middle initial, even if the name is only one letter, that it can be appropriate to use a period. I think it is fine to use S. when it is abbreviated or when writing [first] [middle initial] [last], but I see no reason to abbreviate it in the lead-in. George W. Bush's page says "George Walker Bush", not "George W. Bush". Same with "Ronald Wilson Reagan", and "William Jefferson Clinton". What I'm saying is that in the lead-in on these pages, the whole name is written out, unabbreviated. Harry S. Truman's name, unabbreviated, is "Harry S Truman". Omega697 (talk) 06:07, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Basically, you're making a logical argument. You would instead need to find sources that say that. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 11:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Mr.Harry S. Truman

His middle name is only S.The reson it is only s is his grandpa's were fighting about it....... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.73.202.235 (talk) 02:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Is there something not answered in the FAQ above? --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 10:50, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Harry S Truman is correct, not Harry S. Truman

President Truman had NO middle name. Just the intial "S" - he never put a PERIOD after it.

Please correct this and allow President Harry S Truman, the "buck stops here" man from Missouri to stop spinning in his grave.

Thanks,

T.J. Birkenmeier Commonsensetarian and Citizen Of The Republic —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheWiseBuddha (talk • contribs) 13:45, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Did you look at the image of his signature in the article? It does have a period after the S, also this has been discussed multiple times. Please look at the FAQs at the top of the page. A new name 2008 (talk) 14:05, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Approval ratings

"At different points in his presidency, Truman earned both the highest and the lowest public approval ratings that had ever been recorded." At first I misread this sentence as "have", and I wanted to flag it because it's fairly well known that George W. Bush had since recorded both higher and lower approval ratings, as the citations show. But then I realised that the sentence is in fact accurate. Nevertheless, it might be better to give a little more emphasis to the fact that Truman only used to be the guy with the highest and lowest approval ratings. But I am reluctant to tinker with an otherwise excellent article, and I can't find a way to fix the sentence (such as with an "up until that time" or whatever) which doesn't overload it. Anyone got any ideas? Or is it a better idea to transfer the emphasis to a footnote, because probably only pedantic fact-checkers like me will look at the footnotes anyway? Lexo (talk) 16:43, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps "During his presidency, Truman earned both the highest and the lowest public approval ratings then recorded." There was quite a bit of discussion on this, now at Talk:Harry S. Truman/Archive 2008#Truman and Bush approval ratings. I just now noticed a comparison to Nixon in the Legacy section. I really think that these sort of comparisons belong in United States Presidential approval rating. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 18:25, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Initial again

I haven't searched all the archives, but is there some reason why the article doesn't say whether it's S. or S on his birth certificate? Didn't they have them in Missouri in 1884? Is it confidential? Peter jackson (talk) 15:24, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Probably because there are no published sources that have covered the issue in depth. Every biography to date has treated it as a historical footnote— amusing but not really important. I'm not sure why we cover as we do. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 16:12, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

NO INITIALRCNARANJA 00:33, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Then put in for a move request. See the FAQ above. --Gadget850 (talk) 01:06, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

INITIAL. This has been discussed ad nauseum on this page. We should add it to WP:PEREN. It's always been left as S. because that's how he signed his own name. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:09, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

No initial, no initial, no initial...because there's nothing that the initial stands for; the S stands alone. Why are we making this matter difficult? Just because he signed it S. doesn't make it right; he clearly didn't know any better. George415 (talk) 06:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Is that so? Between himself and yourself, which one got elected President? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

See the FAQ above. Do you have a style guide or other reference that shows differently? If you are adamant about this then request that the article be renamed; again, see the FAQ above. --Gadget850 (talk) 09:26, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

It seems to me you, George415, are the one making this difficult. In addition to the FAQ, it's hard to refute how he himself signed his name, ie, with "S.". I personally once knew a guy who only had initial for both his first AND middle names. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:42, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Johnny Cash started out in life as J. R. Cash. Not J R Cash, but J. R. Cash. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 10:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

IT IS AN S, NOT AN S.! Truman's middle initial doesn't stand for anything. The name is S It's just an S! -Esha Doshi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.127.13.81 (talk) 02:56, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Then why did he sign it with a period? — Rlevse • Talk • 10:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Great Legacy?

I was just wondering, why is he ranked by scholars as one of the greatest U.S. presidents in history (now #5 on the list)? Truman's actions were not very popular, facing plently of scandals in his administration and the Korean War ending in defeat under him, not to mention he started the concept of nuclear warfare with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This may sound biased but when you truly look at it, Truman wasn't a very effective president and may be responsible for some of the greatest problems we face in the modern world. I'd just like to know this, it has confused me for quite some time why we praise him so much in American culture. - Nite Owl II 00:02, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Harry was a straight shooter, and that didn't sit well with a lot of people, but it seems refreshing nowadays compared to the typical politician. The atomic bombings had the effect of immediately ending WWII, so it was a good military decision. Otherwise, there would have been a D-Day style invasion that would have killed hundreds of thousands more. Unfortunately, he couldn't get us out of Korea, and that's what probably killed his presidency. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 21:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Another important accomplishment was to begin the official desegregation of the military. He was to the military what Happy Chandler and Branch Rickey were to baseball. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 10:34, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I understand a bit more now, thank you Bugs :D though it does still seem pretty strange that he would be that high up in rankings after Korea and such (I'd personally put him at 14 or 15), but I'd rather keep my opinion off of here. - Nite Owl II 18:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Presidents have to be judged by the longer view, and their administrations are typically a combination of success and failure. Around Inauguration Day, the History Channel was running their series on the Presidents, and it's amazing how many "dogs" there are in the list. And if you think of the short list of "greatest" Presidents, certainly Lincoln is on it, yet the beating that Bush got in the last 8 years was nothing compared to the savage comments made about Lincoln. Maybe it helps your image to get assassinated. And this may sound crazy, but I suspect that Bush (who is held in the kind of low esteem that Truman was at one time), may well be rehabilitated by historians of later generations. Maybe not, but it's possible. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:20, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I've been thinking the same think myself about Bush, it's amazing that they'd put LBJ anywhere near the top after Vietnam. - Nite Owl II 19:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Vietnam was a disaster that sank LBJ's presidency. But he also managed to achieve two astounding accomplishments. One was to spearhead civil rights legislation that finally started to turn things around after generations of segegration and second-class citizenship for American blacks, and which ultimately made the election of a black President possible. The other was the development of the space program, and it's not just by ego that the space center in Houston is named for him. Ironically, a lot of this was made possible by invoking the name of JFK. Maybe if JFK had not been killed, the civil rights part would have taken longer. Hard to tell. If that History Channel series is available to rent or buy, or when it comes around again, it's an excellent window into the lives of the Presidents, as well as providing a capsule history of the United States along the way. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 19:44, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll have to check this out sometime, I'm very interested in former presidents and their accomplishment. Thank you! - Nite Owl II 21:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Every President has successes and failures. George Washington is as iconic a figure as we have, but he had plenty of critics in his day. Likewise with Jefferson, Lincoln and TR, all of whom are on Mt. Rushmore, so their net effect was regarded positive. I tend to think that the very rock bottom would probably be James Buchanan, who simply sat there while the union began to crumble. Lincoln took the bull by the horns, albeit at great cost. Likewise, Hoover was a good man, but he did nothing serious to try to deal with the Depression. Both Buchanan and Hoover may have been good men who were stuck in their personal philosophies that prevented them from being leaders when they were needed the most. I didn't think much of Reagan when he was in office, but as I've gotten older I've realized what a leader he was. Jimmy Carter, who I admire personally, was in over his head, basically clueless, when the Iran crisis occurred - and this negated the great work he did to get Israel and Egypt to make peace. Unfortunately, a President is often remembered for "the last thing he did". For example, Nixon opened a path of communication to China, and did what he could to try to wind down the hopeless Vietnam situation, but he is best remembered for Watergate and for apparent general paranoia. At Nixon's death, Kissinger said about Nixon, "He made many mistakes and had many achievements." I think that could be said for a lot of our Presidents, and the last thing they did is liable to be how they are remembered. But as time passes, historians can take a longer view and see what the effects really were. That's what might happen with Bush, probably long after he's gone, as he himself has said... and maybe also after we are long gone as well. OK, on to my next book. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 22:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

First line under Personal Life section is incorrect.

That is page vandalism. Can someone with the ability to do so please correct that. Thanks. It is embarrassing to have the president's page vandalized like this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mujd (talk • contribs) 21:17, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

A bot caught it. Or are you talking about something else? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 21:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Truman's "S"

How can he be born in 1844 and be named after someone born in 1846? Did I misinterpret something? Please enlighton. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.52.168.226 (talk) 18:46, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Truman's birth date is clearly shown as May 8, 1884. Where do you see 1844? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 18:53, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Please, what the S. of Harry S. Truman means?Agre22 (talk) 15:11, 24 October 2009 (UTC)agre22

Read the article. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Breaks

What is wrong with fixing the broken break tags? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:10, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't what tags you're talking about, but you're deleting the info telling users not to replace "S." with "S" as per consensus. So stop deleting it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Did you actually look at my LAST edit before reverting? [3] ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:22, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

No, I took your "again" to mean you had done a straight reversion. I have now put it back to your most recent version. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:29, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Nope, just fixed the HTML breaks tags, and started a discussion with the editor who changed them in the first place.

As to the inline notice- it is now redundant with the editnotice (the message with the blue title that shows at the top when editing), but I'm not going to argue about it, as both are ignored. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Or you could take it up with whoever added it in the first place. 'Tweren't me. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 17:40, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I added the editnotice, the inline notice has been there for years. Oh, well. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Are you saying there is one too many? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Editnotices show only when you edit the page and are intended to replace comment section in the body of the article. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 20:50, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Given the periodic hassles with the "S(.)" thing, you can't have too many warnings. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:56, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

References

References are starting to degrade. I count 16 refs not using templates, mixed with three notes. We aren't supposed to mix the footnotes systems, but we still have shortened footnotes mixed with standard footnotes. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 19:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I totally agree. Is this article worthy of an FA status?--andreasegde (talk) 00:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes; it has had several changes since it made FA and just needs a spot of polish. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 02:13, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I noted the passage 'The remark was the first in a long series of prominently inopportune off-the-cuff statements by Truman to members of the national press corps.' Where is this attributed? Sources?Foamking (talk) 05:34, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

spelling

writting -> writing
Thank you. 98.212.135.1 (talk) 03:00, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 10:59, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

strong anti-Zionist bias

there is a strong anti-Zionist bias, always quoting negative quotes and opinions, but not more pro-Zionist quotes of Truman or people around him.Tallicfan20 (talk) 15:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Highest-ever approval rating?

The statement that Truman had the highest-ever approval rating is, well, incorrect. Both Bushes had higher approval ratings than he. However, this is still significant that it was not surpassed for 40 years. I am also confused as to why this statement is sourced with 3 references, all of which contradict it? I'm going to plunge ahead and correct this inaccuracy. Jsharpminor (talk) 19:51, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Check the archives (search box above) for previous discussions. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 23:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

missing word in personal life

Truman decided not join the International Typographical Union. He returned to the Grandview

change to "decided not to join"

Petereck (talk) 04:23, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Good eye. That error was introduced on March 28th.[4] Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:02, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

editsemiprotected article

I would request that since it is acknowledged in the article you please change Harry S Truman's name to NOT have a period following the "S". As a Missourian, we KNOW his middle name was "S" not S., so we would request you show the true name as Harry S Truman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.247.253.100 (talk) 23:07, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Reliable sources say otherwise, and that's part of the reason the article is semi-protected. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 02:24, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

See the FAQ above. Of five formal style guides, three use the period and two have no guidance. Please provide a reference for other usage. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 02:36, 30 August 2009 (UTC)`

Not to mention this has come up adnauseum and he signed his own name "S." The way he signed his own name should settle this. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:40, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

The IP is just a drive-by in any case. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 02:48, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

I know. The burden goes back on the OP for a reference. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 04:09, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. The IP OP. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:18, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Majestic 12

It's very important to add a section about Harry Truman signing the Majestic 12 documents. After Roswell President Harry Truman signed a document to select the 12 most secretive people in the US from CIA Directors, to the best Scientists to investigate the UFO Phenomenon and keep it a secret from the public. There's evidence to prove it and we should add a section on the page. (Click On Majestic 12)

No, it's not important. Note the keyword in that article, "purportedly". It's just a wacko conspiracy theory. →Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:06, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

McMahon Act

On the reasoning behind the barring of Britain and Canada from sharing US nuclear research under the Atomic Energy Act of 1946, Trumam later admitted that he had never been told of Britain and Canada's participation in the Manhattan Project, and that if he had known he would have specifically excluded these two countries from the terms of the Act. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.252.180 (talk) 23:16, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

If you have a source for that, then it would best fit in the Atomic Energy Act of 1946 article. I wasn't aware of this act; it does explain why Pershing and other nuclear missiles owned by Germany had the warheads under U.S. control. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 23:22, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't have a source so I won't add anything, I read it in a book on the UK atomic weapons programme, sometime back in the 1990s I think. Basically, Britain and Canada had contributed to the Manhattan Project and the three countries had signed a treaty early-on when they agreed to co-ordinate their various bomb efforts, however when the war ended and Truman had become President he was advised that the 'bomb' secrets should remain exclusively US one's, despite the UK and Canada's involvement in the development. Truman later stated what I wrote above, saying that he'd never been told the project had been a tri-national one. The whole atom bomb project was so secret that, IIRC, many US Congressmen were unaware of it, and so they wouldn't have known about the UK/Canada involvement either. Truman said afterwards (or the book I read it in stated he did) that later in life he decided that he had been poorly-briefed at the time of the Act by his advisers, although, to be fair, it's possible that many of them wouldn't have known about the UK/CAN involvement either. The Act was a financial disaster for Britain in the short term, as the cost of starting their own nuclear weapon programme was considerable and it was one of the reasons Britain still had rationing as late as the 1950s, however in the long term the Act was probably of more benefit to Britain than the US, as by the time the restrictions on sharing of nuclear weapon technology had been reversed by the US Atomic Energy Act of 1954, Britain had leap-frogged ahead in several key areas, such as warhead and re-entry vehicle design. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.254.8 (talk) 16:33, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Personal Life addition

Truman also is an honorary member of Alpha Delta Gamma National Fraternity. He was inducted in 1954 and spoke at the National Convention held in Kansas City and hosted by Rochester University that same year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Memcf2 (talk • contribs) 19:33, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Truman's Fraternity

Would someone please change the Lambda Chi Alpha chapter from "Missouri-Kansas City" to "the University of Missouri"? It was UMC that made Truman an honorary member in the 1950s. The chapter at UMKC was not established until the 1970s, and has no ties to Truman.

66.142.59.134 (talk) 20:19, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Sub-sub sections

I'm just curious about the TOC on this article. I see that "assuming office" and "atomic bomb use" are subsectiosn of the "First term" header, but these subsections aren't displayed in the TOC. Is there a reason why? This seems like something I could use on one of my wikis. Thank you. Timneu22 (talk) 19:09, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

The TOC was overly long, so it is limited using {{TOC limit}}. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 19:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I just noticed that and was going to post a "nevermind" comment. So... nevermind. ;-) Timneu22 (talk) 19:16, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Truman's Middle Initial

When Truman was born, his parents could not agree whether his middle name should be Shippe or Solomon, the names of both his grandfathers. Later, since Harry did not want to upset either side of the family, he went with just the S. Therefore no matter what, it is incorrect to put a period after it since it does not stand for anything. Baileyf07 (talk) 12:57, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

This has already been discussed at length. The S is followed by a period. Period. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Please refer to the style guides listed in the FAQ above; do you have any reference that would override these? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 14:02, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I haven't seen the previous discussion, but I agree with Baileyf07... I've always heard and seen it written without the period. Kevinbrogers (talk) 02:00, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Then look at the picture of HIS OWN SIGNATURE! Case closed. Why do people keep trying to trump his own spelling of his own name? — Rlevse • Talk • 02:06, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

His legal name trumps his own spelling of his name. If he wanted the period there, he should have legally had it added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.254.8.208 (talk) 01:56, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Go dig up Ulysses S. Grant and tell him to fix his name. His middle initial has no meaning as well and it used a period. And it's not even his real name. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 03:22, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Then perhaps that instance is also in need of correcting. 92.238.128.101 (talk) 02:38, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

The article already covers it. In effect, it stood for "Simpson", his mother's maiden name. But apparently that was a media invention. If the article is correct, he always signed with just an "S." as did Truman. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:48, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Probable copyright violations regarding atomic bomb use

This recent edit added a significant amount of material criticizing Truman's decision to use atomic weapons against Japan. I removed the material because it appears to have been copied, without permission, from "Was Hiroshima Necessary?". I have removed this material.

There were additional problems with the addition. For example, the deleted material repeatedly refers to the book The Decision to Drop the Atomic Bomb and cites it as "(Praeger, 1996)". But the book was written by Dennis Wainstock and published by Greenwood Publishing Group, so who or what is "Praeger"? Someone is confused.

There should be reportage of the controversy over this issue, but it should be done properly, and within Wikipedia's policies. —Dominus (talk) 18:55, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Earlier edit

An earlier edit by the same user added this text:

Truman apparently maintained this firm conviction to the very end. Late in his life, a reporter asked him if he had ever considered apologizing to the Japanese people for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He replied, "No. And I have waited very patiently for the Japanese to apologize to the American people for Pearl Harbor."

I do not know of any copyright problems with this text. I removed it by accident. But on further review, I have decided that the removal was correct. The quotation requires a citation to a reliable source, but the citation given is only to the top page of the Truman Library oral interviews page, which lists over 500 interviews. The claimed quotation may appear in one of the interviews, but I have not been able to locate it. Under Wikipedia core policy, quotations must be verifiable, and this one isn't. —Dominus (talk) 19:05, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

The same text was added again; I am about to remove it. —Dominus (talk) 00:22, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

You have my consensus. Remove it. Just dont revert 3 times as per rules, wait for more consensus. But you have my agreement. Meishern (talk) 13:46, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

3RR only applies to more than 3 reverts within 24 hours, so I don't think I'm in any danger of violating it. But thanks. —Dominus (talk) 18:59, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Also I see that the 3RR policy contains an exception for "Clear copyright violations or content that unquestionably violates the non-free content policy." —Dominus (talk) 16:46, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Party affiliation

The first thousand words of this article do NOT contain the words 'Democrat' and 'Democratic'. How can such a crucial fact be missing from the introduction of a featured article? Yes, it is in the infobox, but only way down in the Senator section. IMHO, this is not a good representation of basic info. Is it taken for granted that everyone knows this? Junuxx (talk) 04:14, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Feel free to improve the article. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:42, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. Junuxx (talk) 23:02, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Bad Writing in 'Personal Life'

Current version includes the following sentence:

"The initial did not actually stand for anything, since it was a common practice with Scots-Irish.[7][8]"

This strikes me as poorly written. Try:

"The initial did not actually stand for anything, as was common practice with Scots-Irish.[7][8]" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.245.88.120 (talk) 19:01, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Among the biggest American presidents

This American is among the biggest American presidents of all times.Agre22 (talk) 15:12, 24 October 2009 (UTC)agre22

William Howard Taft was much bigger. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:47, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

He wasn't THAT big. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.91.37.25 (talk) 21:17, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

What kind of drugs was Agre22 on that night? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.91.37.167 (talk) 02:15, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article review/Harry S. Truman/archive1

Curiously I can't find it on this page but it should be here. The Featured Article status is being reviewed.Americasroof (talk) 17:58, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Belton Lodge No. 450 Ancient Free and Accepted Masons (AF & AM) is the mother lodge of President Truman. It was chartered October 16, 1872 by the Grand Lodge of AF&AM of Missouri.

He was initiated, passed, and raised to the sublime degree of a Master Mason in this Lodge and later helped form a lodge in Grandview, MO. This Lodge is listed as Grandview Lodge No. 618 on the website maintained by the Grand Lodge of AF&AM of Missouri.

Master Masons receive the first three degrees in a symbolic lodge, or “blue lodge”. After this, they may choose to take further degrees and orders in either the Scottish Rite or the York Rite branches of Masonic organizations. Therefore, it should be noted that the Belton Lodge No. 450 is NOT to be confused as being a Scottish Rite Lodge. These are two different things.

The section on Freemasonry in President Truman’s listing should be corrected to reflect this. It now reads:

“On February 9, 1909, Harry Truman was initiated into Scottish Rite Freemasonry in the Belton Lodge, Missouri.[38] In 1911 he helped establish the Grandview Lodge, and he served as its first Worshipful Master. In 1940, Harry Truman was elected the 97th Grand Master of the Masons of Missouri……”

Please edit to the more accurate following:

On February 9, 1909, Harry Truman was initiated into Freemasonry in Belton Lodge No. 450 in Belton, MO.[38] In 1911, he helped establish the Grandview Lodge No. 618 in Grandview, MO, where he served as the new Lodge’s first Worshipful Master. In 1940, he was elected the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of AF&AM of Missouri.

He also became a member of the Scottish Rite branch of Freemasonry, and in 1945, he was made a 33° Sovereign Grand Inspector General and an Honorary Member of the Supreme Council at the Supreme Council A.A.S.R. Southern Jurisdiction Headquarters in Washington D.C.  In 1959, he was awarded the Master Mason’s 50 year membership award, the only U.S. president to reach that anniversary.[39]

I am a Master Mason and know this change is a more accurate account of Harry Truman's involvement in Freemasonry. Thank You. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MaximusTruth (talk • contribs) 02:33, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 71.109.153.22, 19 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

please change

John Truman was a farmer and livestock dealer.

to

John Truman, believed to be a farmer and livestock dealer, is listed on Harry Truman's birth record as a "Horse Trader".

because

the original information did not cite any reliable sources.

71.109.153.22 (talk) 03:48, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Clicking on the superscripted numbers does not seem to be working. The sources I am trying to cite are "Missouri Birth & Death Records Database". Missouri Office of the Secretary of State. Retrieved 2010-10-18.

"Missouri Birth & Death Records Database". Missouri Office of the Secretary of State. Retrieved 2010-10-18. 71.109.153.22 (talk) 03:54, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Don't change. That two-word primary source is not as good as the secondary sources used in the article (especially McCullough) which explain in depth what John Truman did. see for more sources Rjensen (talk) 04:02, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Not done: see above. Thanks, Stickee (talk) 07:57, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

No period!!!!!!

The man himself used no period...PERIOD...there should NOT be a period after the S!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.15.83.13 (talk) 16:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Please read the FAQ above and provide sources not already in the article. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 16:33, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

dates in office are wrong

dates in office are clearly wrong, as his second term is within his first according to WP. Please update. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.205.227.66 (talk) 22:04, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Where does it say that? —Mark Dominus (talk) 22:08, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 134.253.26.6, 21 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Citation [178], the template has a typo tititle -> title.

134.253.26.6 (talk) 21:30, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

I think I have that fixed now. Please review. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:38, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Looks fine. The title could be further split into |title= and |date=, but at least the basic info is there. 134.253.26.6 (talk) 21:48, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Truman's eyesight

The article lists Truman's eyesight as being 20/50 in the right eye and 20/40 in the left. It cites McCullough, page 105. Actually, the left eye is 20/400, enough to be classified as legally blind in that eye (same citation) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Villere (talk • contribs) 18:06, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit Request: Add Mexico in the foreign travels map.

Mexico is not highlighted in the foreign travels map that Harry S. Truman did, when in fact, he was in Mexico and met with then Mexican President Miguel Alemán. Because of that, Mexico should be also highlighted. You can confirm that here: http://www.trumanlibrary.org/photographs/search.php?access=selectbyname&nameid=33 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shinaco (talk • contribs) 15:46, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

No period

There should be no period after the "S". Just sayin'... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.217.47.73 (talk) 00:46, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Read the archives and you'll discover that you're just sayin' incorrectly. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:18, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Or the FAQ at the top of this page. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 04:24, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't have to read anything to know it's wrong. Consensus doesn't equal correct, e.g. global warming. The "S" isn't an initial, therefore requires no punctuation. Just sayin' correctly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.10.254.62 (talk) 19:23, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

The FAQ notes how to propose the article be moved. If you don't want to read that, it is OK. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 20:00, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Hiroshima and Nagasaki

Maybe Truman did the world an unwitting favour by authorising the the use of Nuclear weapons on Japan in 1945.

Ever since 1945 the worlds leaders have had these examples of the results of using such weapons with the horrific affects on human life and the radioactive rubble aftermath.

Despite the 1962 Kennedy scare it doesn't seem that any post WW2 government has ever seriously considered using such weapons again.AT Kunene (talk) 09:53, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Eyesight.

According to the "History Channel" Truman biography, Trumans mother had taken her small son Harry, to a fireworks display and noticed that he didn't react to any of the bright flashes etc.

Suspecting a problem she had him medically examined which revealed his eysight problem.AT Kunene (talk) 09:58, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 98.92.33.57, 21 February 2011

I just wanted to let whoever made this page know that Truman's middle name was "S" that is not just a middle initial so it should read "Harry S Truman" instead of Harry S. Truman" :)

98.92.33.57 (talk) 23:09, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

No. This has been discussed many times. No. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:40, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Please see the FAQ above. Provide sources. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 05:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I have read the archive on "S" versus "S." I don't understand why we don't go with what the White House biography does, which is S-no period. Yes, Truman sometimes began using the period late in life, but no one seems to consider that, after years of having the period gratuitously added, he just gave up. My name is "Ivonne," and I have given up and no longer say anything about it being spelled "Yvonne" or pronounced "Yuh-von" unless we're dealing with an official document where it might cause trouble later. I can sympathize with President Truman. ;) Miss Ivonne (talk) 11:58, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Truman's middle initial

It is well-known that Truman's middle initial was not "S" as the article claims. Rather it was the Moravian letter "S", which resembles an upside-down "S". Therefore his name is properly spelled "Harry S. Truman", not "Harry S. Truman". Please correct this. —Mark Dominus (talk) 13:36, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

That's a fanciful tale. Good luck finding a source for it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

You can see it in the signature of the man himself. It is clearly an "S". —Mark Dominus (talk) 15:38, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it's an "S." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:21, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

The signature image is in the FAQ above. The FAQ even tells you how to propose a move. It has been tweaked various times and really does make the issues very clear. -— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 16:26, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Harry Truman Quotes

Edit request: In the SEE ALSO section can someone please add: "Harry Truman Quotes" with this suggested link: http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Harry_S_Truman/ 172.162.6.122 (talk) 19:00, 13 March 2011 (UTC) BG

Any relevant quotes should be added to Wikiquote page at q:Harry S. Truman. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 19:24, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 65.101.133.124, 15 April 2011

get rid of the period after his middle name. since his middle name is S, there should not be a period. dummies.

65.101.133.124 (talk) 03:09, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Baseball Watcher 04:08, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

This issue has been discussed here many times. It's "Harry S. Truman". See the FAQ near the top of this page. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:08, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request 19 May 2011

When viewing the page today it states that Truman was the 33rd president, ending his term in January 20th 1953 and that the 34rd president was Roosevelt, with a term from January 20th 1945 to April 2th 1945. This does not seem correct (assuming that the number should be incremented in the forward direction of time). I'm assuming this is a simple type from some earlier edit? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.227.158.204 (talk) 20:04, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Where do you see that Roosevelt was the 34rd president? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:49, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

It says Truman was the 34th Vice President. That might be the source of the OP's confusion. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:24, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

They are not the first person to have made that mistake here. (Feb 2008) —Mark Dominus (talk) 16:38, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

LXA

Harry S Truman was a member of the mens' fraternal organization Lambda Chi Alpha. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.10.145.83 (talk) 04:10, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Please provide source and relevance. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 09:37, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Apparently Truman accepted an offer of membership from the Lambda chapter at U. Missouri Columbia in 1944 (see source http://www.crossandcrescent.com/2006/08/how-harry-s-truman-became-a-lambda-chi/). Since this was a more or less honorary conferral of membership, and Truman was honored by many organizations, I don't think it rises to inclusion in an encyclopedia biography.Gillartsny (talk) 19:37, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Harry S Truman

I don't think Harry S Truman's name should have a 'dot' after the "S" because the S doesn't stand for anything. 70.179.54.127 (talk · contribs)

Read the FAQ. --Ian Dalziel (talk) 22:53, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 98.208.60.136, 1 September 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Truman Doctrine in Guatemala
Several hundred records were released by the Central Intelligence Agency on May 23 1997, on its involvement in the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état. They reflected Truman administration feeling that the government of Arbenz, elected in 1950, would continue a process of socio-economic reforms that the CIA disdainfully refers to in its memoranda as "an intensely nationalistic program of progress colored by the touchy, anti-foreign inferiority complex of the 'Banana Republic.'" Between 1954 and 1990, human rights groups estimate, the repressive operatives of successive US-sponsored military regimes murdered more than 200,000 civilians, with another 100,000 "disappeared." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.208.60.136 (talk • contribs)

Maybe Truman could have done something about that, had he actually been in office during 1954-1990. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:29, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

This request needs discussion and refs - I can't process it as a simple 'semi prot edit request' - please, talk about it, and ask again, thanks.  Chzz  ►  01:51, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

World War I

Was he subordinate to Henry L. Simpson during WW I? --109.91.72.35 (talk) 17:29, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request 14 November 2011

Since President Truman's middle name is simply "S" and does not stand for anything, I believe that, grammatically, one would omit a period after it, implying abbreviation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.28.133.40 (talk) 05:11, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

See the FAQ on this.--JayJasper (talk) 05:18, 14 November 2011

Lambda Chi Alpha

Why is his honorary membership in Lambda Chi Alpha Fraternity no longer mentioned on the page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.13.208.129 (talk • contribs) 11:39, 21 November 2011

Talk:Harry_S._Truman/Archive_3#Lambda_Chi_Alpha ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 16:24, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

How can we bring this back up for discussion? Membership in Greek organizations is pretty standard-fare for the Wikipedia pages of presidents, such as George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, both Roosevelts, etc. 71.71.116.156 (talk) 03:36, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Truman never went to college and never joined or was active in any fraternity. Rjensen (talk) 08:08, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

That is blatantly false. Truman was initiated into Lambda Chi Alpha Fraternity in 1945. "In 1945, the Cross & Crescent magazine reported that Truman was initiated in his office in the Federal Building in Kansas City, Missouri, at 11 a.m. on June 28, 1945. The earliest signed photo bears the date August 29, 1945. The editor wrote that 14 members of the Kansas City Alumni Association, representing the University of Missouri chapter, initiated Truman in a simple ceremony. Brother Truman was recorded as Gamma-Kappa 213."

http://pdf.crossandcrescent.com/2006/08/cc06aug_print.pdf

It sounds like this information is only being excluded because specific editors deem it to be un-important. However, given the fact that it is 1. verifiable and 2. a piece of information that is regularly included in articles on famous individuals, I would like to request that his membership be once again added to the article. 71.71.116.156 (talk) 19:25, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

it was 100% honorific -- like the honorary degrees he had (which did not mean he had a college education). Did he attend meetings? no. This is merely a device to slip the Lambda Chi Alpha name into an important article where it does not belong. Rjensen (talk) 19:40, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Rjensen. An honorary fraternity induction given to Truman when he was 60 years old is not interesting or important, and it is not analogous to Roosevelt's membership in fraternal organizations while a student at Harvard, as the anonymous editor suggested. If there was some evidence that he was active in the affairs of Lambda Chi Alpha, or that he himself considered it significant, that might be worth including. —Mark Dominus (talk) 22:01, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Every president has received honorary memberships or degrees from dozens of organizations, so this isn't really notable. See the Google search for "harry truman" honorary. Example: FDR and Eisenhower were honorary members of the Order of the Arrow; notable in the OA article: yes; in the presidential articles: no. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 22:51, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

not a peace agreement

Harry_S._Truman#Korean_War states that "The war remained a frustrating stalemate for two years, with over 30,000 Americans killed, until a peace agreement restored borders and ended the conflict.<ref name="korwarstats">{{cite web |url=http://www.korean-war.com/miakia.html|title=U.S. Military Korean War Statistics |publisher=Korean-war.com |accessdate=July 26, 2007}}</ref>" This statement is contradicted by the source cited. The source at timeline1953 states that on 27 July 53 "The United States, North Korea and China sign an armistice, which ends the war but fails to bring about a permanent peace. To date, the Republic of Korea (South) and Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea (North) have not signed a peace treaty." Peace agreement is an incorrect term - see armistice. For the text of the thing see Korean_Armistice_Agreement.

""The war remained a frustrating stalemate for two years, with over 30,000 Americans killed, until an armistice ended the fighting." would not be contradicted by sources cited, and is also a more accurate statement. - 67.224.51.189 (talk) 04:50, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I have revised the article as you suggested. —Mark Dominus (talk) 16:39, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

So I see - thank you. I am removing the [[File:Korea Armistice.JPG]] thumbnail. - 67.224.51.189 (talk) 04:06, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 11 December 2011

Because Harry S Truman's middle name does not stand for anything, the "S" should not have a period after it.

Theone who does stuffa (talk) 21:06, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Wrong. Read the FAQ. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:16, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 January 2012

I would simply like to edit the title of this page, which states "Harry S. Truman". The only thing wrong with this is that the S in Harry S. Truman should NOT have a period after it. Pesident Truman's does not have a full middle name. When he was born, they left his middle name a just "S" because they did not know whether to call him after his paternal of maternal grandfather. I have to present a research on Truman and I noticed the title. So please change the title from Harry S. Truman to Harry S Truman. Thank you.

PS... Wikipedia ROCKS

Koomi2 (talk) 01:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Please read the FAQ above and provide a compelling and well sourced reason. If you can get the US Navy to rename the USS Harry S. Truman then you have a good chance of renaming this article. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 02:06, 2 January 2012 (UTC)