Talk:Hamim Tohari

A fact from Hamim Tohari appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 30 September 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Hamim Tohari, the current spokesperson of the Indonesian Army, was once removed from his post after being caught using a phone during a meeting with the commander-in-chief?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/September. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Hamim Tohari.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by CSJJ104 (talk) 19:54, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that Hamim Tohari, the current spokesperson of the Indonesian Army, was once removed from his post after being caught using a phone during a meeting with the commander-in-chief? Source: https://nasional.okezone.com/read/2021/12/03/337/2511470/kolonel-hamin-dikabarkan-dicopot-sebagai-kasrem-merauke-usai-dimarahi-panglima-tni
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Tigor Silaban

Created by Jeromi Mikhael (talk). Self-nominated at 17:11, 7 August 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Comment: Jeromi Mikhael, a QPQ is supposed to be provided within a week of nominating at DYK. If it is not provided in the next seven days, the nomination may be closed. Please supply a QPQ before then. Thank you very much. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:22, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @BlueMoonset: Really sorry for my ignorance to this rule. I've supplied a QPQ now. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 00:57, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Full review needed now that QPQ has been provided. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:35, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Starting review now... -- RoySmith (talk) 13:52, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article is new enough and long enough.
Looking at id:Hamim Tohari, it appears that this is very close to an automated translation of that article, lacking any proper attribution.

@LordPeterII: For clarification, the original article in the Indonesian language was written by me. Previously the Indonesian article was in a resume format. I translated the article manually. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 01:20, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It still needs proper attribution. Please see WP:Translation#License requirements -- RoySmith (talk) 11:02, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The article appears to be properly referenced, but as noted, all of the sources are in Indonesian, so I'm unable to really evaluate them. WP:DYKR requires in this case that I verify the basic facts, or at the very least, the existence of the article subject. I have been unable to find any English language sources which would let me do this. I suspect that this would fail WP:ANYBIO if brought to AfD. Given that article makes negative statements (i.e. the subject being dismissed from his post for cause) in a WP:BLP, this is a serious problem.
The BLP question above notwithstanding, I don't see any problems with WP:NPOV per-se.

@LordPeterII: You might want to translate the sources you want to evaluate by using Google Translate. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 01:20, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think the hook fails the "puts undue emphasis on a negative aspect of a living individual" test.
QPQ done.
-- RoySmith (talk) 14:31, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging @Juxlos as someone who has had Indonesian articles appear at DYK and might be able to help with evaluating the article's basic facts.

If the hook is deemed to negative, it might be changed to emphasize that while he was first dsimissed, he shortly afterwards became army spokesperson (which makes the incident seem less grave of a fault). –LordPickleII (talk) 18:41, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Having somebody who can read the sources in the original language sounds like a good idea, thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:20, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeromi Mikhael: Ah, I'm not the reviewer, just thought I could help. Btw, you might want to consider adding some Wikipedia:Babel to your (enwiki) userpage, so others can more easily check that you know what you are doing! @RoySmith: The article author has replied above, and I think they know what they are doing. –LordPickleII (talk) 07:31, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@RoySmith: reading through the Indonesian sources, his dismissal is quite extensively discussed and is a significant part of his notability. Even his appointment to the new post mentions the dismissal incident in length. I'd say it doesn't violate BLP. Juxlos (talk) 07:11, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Juxlos: Thanks for your help.
@Jeromi Mikhael: The only thing left now is the attribution for the translation. As I noted above, even if you are the primary author of both versions, if you translated it, you need to comply with Help:Translation#License requirements -- RoySmith (talk) 12:48, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@RoySmith: Done Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 04:08, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. It's recommended that {{Translated page}} include the exact version you translated from, but what you've got meets the minimum requirement, so this is good to go now. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:13, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]