Talk:Halo: Ghosts of Onyx/Archive 1

Archive 1

Mistake?: Forerunner name for Engineer

• On p.237 of Ghosts of Onyx, it give the "Forerunner" name for the Engineers. Shouldn't it be the Covenant name, and the author just made a mistake?WikiMan78 19:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  • WikiMan78, please sign your posts. It doesn't have to be a mistake. The nature of the Engineers is not described very clearly. It's entirely possible they were created by the Forerunner, and that the Prophets found a mention of the race in one of the artifacts. After all, it doesn't seem natural for a race to be inherently good at working with machines. Chronolegion 13:16, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
    • It doesn't necessarily mean its wrong, but I think it is something worth looking into.WikiMan78 19:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

More info

Bungie announced a series of two more novels following Ghosts of Onyx. <Can anybody give a link please?

This is all there is.

Pretty much. However, Ghosts of Coral is a working title, not the finally-finished totally certain one. Bronzey 07:17, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

How about the comprimise I made? People can say anything they want that has a decent chance of truth (working title includes Coral, so Coral should be mentioned SOMEWHERE in the book), but there's a big tag warning all of this is speculation. Just keep the speculation to a reasonable minimum. The article needs that extra content to keep people from proposing deletions up until hard information comes out. gspawn 13:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Odds are, at least one of the books will deal with the Spartan IIIs, since they need to escape the dyson sphere to survive.

Haunted Apiray

Hey, I just realized something. Doesn't this have a theoretical connection to the [The Haunted Apiary]? Wasn't one of the character from a planet named Coral. Also the title itself mildly aludes to the Haunted Apiray (Ghosts, Haunted). BrendantheJedi 16:14, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

The "artifact" central to the ILB story was from Coral. And yes, it's surprising no one's included it yet. But note also, this is why Bungie has already stated the title doesn't spoil anything- because it's just a working title, the final book probably won't have anything at all to do with the whole ILB thing. Gspawn 13:19, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

•Sorry for being vague, but I heard something about the next book being about Sargent Johnson during the earlier years of the Human-Covenant War. I also think the book's title will contain the word, "Autumn," pertaining to The Pillar of Autumn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.26.222.212 (talk) 08:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Huh?

"Although the previous books in the series followed this trend, Halo 2 has a cliffhanger ending where it is widely believed Halo 3 will pick up. If this is true, assuming the novel stars the Master Chief, there would be no time in the storyline for the novel to occur before the third game." What does this mean? It reads really funny like there's no room for a story to take place before the events of the third game. Never mind the entirety of Halo 2... I think this needs to be changed, but as I do not understand what it's supposed to convey in the first place, I'm unsure how to change it. 67.100.123.84 22:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Basically nothing is confirmed yet... so there's no way of telling what time the book is set in. If it is set between Halo 2 and Halo 3, it probably won't star the Master Chief (as all the other books have), because he's sitting on the Forerunner ship and not going anywhere. That text has been changed now anyway. Bah. Bronzey 09:54, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Reading the new plot summary from the cover, it's entirely possible Chief won't be in this one ("a" Spartan, instead of "Master Chief must now go", as the novel would more likely read if he were starring). However, there are lots of timeline issues. This novel could run more parallel to First Strike, and lead right up to the next novel, which could then cover Halo 2. This would break the timeline set by the first three novels (before Halo, Halo, after Halo...) but is very plausible. This novel could be set off all on its own as extra story, and then the next novels would continue the "main story". Etc, etc, etc. We just don't know enough to place this novel in the timeline at all.68.255.77.106 14:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it will most likely deal with what happened to some of the characters in First Strike. Dr. Halsey and Kelly might star (Nylund has said the book will reveal the fates of his other characters), which would fit with the idea of it happening "after the Chief destroyed Halo", but it could run parallel to Halo 2. As you said, it's impossible to tell. Bronzey 11:43, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

the time and date given at the begining of every chapter clearly indicate that the events take place before halo1, during halo1, and during halo2.

You are all correct the Master Chief only appears a bit you mostly play as Marines this time....Or so I heard from a friend whos dad works w/ Bunige.Spartan-110 17:38, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Final Title

The final of title of the book is called "Ghosts of Onyx" by Bungie Studios according to their website. I will now begin moving the title on this article as well as some changes. Here is the link to their confirmation. link -Senor Starman 22:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Asian Lettering

Can we get a translation of the letters next to the bottom left figure's head on the cover? I'm curious to know what they say and it's probably an important clue of some kind. 211.26.108.242 09:06, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

It may be Lorraine McLees' name in Chinese (I think she is Chinese). Bronzey 04:25, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Well i'm thinking it's something like a signature that artist write on their work. If you look carefully you can even see the dates.--Nighthawkzx 10:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Date of release in Australia

I don't suppose anyone knows what date this book will be released in Australia is? Is it the same date as the one posted in this article?

Wish I knew, but it'll probably be sometime after October 31st (that's the US one). We usually get it weeks later, though. Bronzey 23:13, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I've confirmed with a bookstore and the Australian publisher is not releasing it until January 2007. I've added it to the article. Bronzey 04:08, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for answering my question :)

Army/Marines Colonel Ackerson?

Page 58 talks a bit about Ackerson being in an Army uniform. I thought he was a Marine from the prior books, but I can't be sure. It's not clear in this book if he is undercover or some such. Trick414 04:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Ah well i dont know that but Ackerson isn't part of section three, he runs another section within ONI. Aslo its probaly a typo or just to bring more confusen to the book

Popa01 14:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

• • The novel explains that Colonel Ackerson is an Army Colonel on loan to the Office of Naval Intelligence; however, one must wonder what the Army does in this military. All we tend to see is the Navy and the Marines.198.69.68.2 12:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)HawkofVA

• • • After reading the book I noticed that it did say that he was in an uniform belonginf to the army, and that he is also on permanent loan to ONI thats why in First Strike he was on that board on earth. But the book does add more info into the Cheifs history with how he felt even more with with the loss of a team member, and having for the first time having a new member added to his team sorry just alot of rambling huh, but this just gives more reasoning to how the MC acts towards the other spartans Popa01 15:27, 20 December 2006

Character list

The character list is way too huge and there's far too many individual characters in this novel, not to mention its completely unnecessary. I've deleted it. Important characters can be mentioned in the plot summary. Peptuck 07:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Confusion Concerning Whereabouts of Spartan-117

It has come to my attention that some users editing The Ghosts of Onyx are confused in regards to the current location of Master Chief, Spartan-117. It is very clearly stated by Cortana that Master Chief is currently IN-TRANSIT to Earth via the Forerunner vessel as seen in Halo 2. Evidence of this is based on the fact that Admiral Hood has not yet addressed Master Chief in the presence of other Spartans currently involved with a mission on Earth. Further evidence that Master Chief has yet to arrive on Earth is based on the fact that Cortana advises UNSC to destroy the incoming ship, and that she "Suggest FleetCom neutralize the Covenant controlled Forerunner command vessel. Be advised, Spartan-117 on-board" (Onyx, Page 183).

This isn't evidence that he hasn't arrived yet; merely evidence that Cortana has advised Hood that he is en route.Peptuck 15:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

By the end of Onyx, Admiral Hood, the remaining Spartans or any individual of the UNSC, has yet to contact with Master Chief, John; Spartan-117.

Please provide proof that he has not arrived or been contacted. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. That we have not seen them contact him within the context of a short operation on the surface does not prove that they have not contacted him.Peptuck 15:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Spartan 117 is actually en route to Earth, he must have reached Earth because by the trailer of Halo 3, we could see him walking out from the desert, he must have reached it, he had contacted Hood once on the fleet when Hood was on Cairo Station. He must have arrived on Earth but roughly taken on by something!--Master Chief Petty Officer 03:26, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

---

Fact: No concrete date exists as to when Master Chief arrived back at Earth during the events Halo 2, although it is clear he did not arrive by the end of events in Ghosts of Onyx.

No it isn't. No one has stated, said, or otherwise confirmed that the Chief is or isn't on Earth. That he isn't mentioned does not mean that he is not present, just as the lack of mention of the other Spartans in Halo 2 doesn't mean that they aren't present. Peptuck 15:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Moreover, The Prophet of Truth's Armada has not yet to arrive at Earth, which in fact arrived BEFORE that of Spartan-117 (Halo 2).

Prove this, please. Its pretty blatantly obvious that the fleet at Earth isn't Regret's fleet; it would have been destroyed by the UNSC forces at Earth in the week and a half between the Cairo Station battle and their appearance. Not to mention that the fleet at Earth during GoO contains destroyers, which were absent from Regret's fleet in Halo 2. Peptuck 06:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Fact: Admiral Hood and the other Spartans currently on Earth at the time of Ghosts of Onyx neither referenced or had any contact with Spartan-117.

     "Kelly whispered: Do you think John's still out there, I mean alive?"
     "Yes", Linda said.
     "He has to be" Fred told her. "He's the only one left to stop the Covenant"
      (Ghosts of Onyx, page 382)

This does not prove that Hood has not had contact with 117, nor does it prove that they have not had contact with the Chief. If he was on the ground fighting the Covenant elsewhere then it would have been just as questionable as to whether he was alive or dead. After all, there's no indication of contact between the Chief and his team of Spartans during Halo 2; does that mean that they aren't present on Earth? Peptuck 15:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

---

Hopefully this will stop a lot of the confusion. Uninformed individuals (i.e., Peptuck) are discouraged from this point on to make further revisions without concrete evidence and source listing refuting the whereabouts of Spartan-117

I'll certainly hold you to the same standard; your information is just as faulty as any I have to give. We have no proof that he is or isn't on Earth as of the events of Ghosts of Onyx.Peptuck 15:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Long-Time Halo Editor of Team Xbox, Evil Avatar, HBO and The Divine Ring.

Zeal 09:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Do not assume that I come to conclusions lightly. I'd ask you to respect my contributions and consider their veracity and not instantly assume that you are correct. Your evidence is circumstancial and proves nothing. Do not assume your are an admin of Wikipedia either, and do not tell me what I am "discouraged" from editing. Peptuck 15:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Your contributions were considered, however they were incorrect and were changed. Everything Zeal stated was backed up by facts. Your evidence however, is based on your own assumptions and will be therefore regarded as that unless stated otherwise by an official source. Durandal-217 01:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Nothing he has stated is backed up by facts. He's citing a lack of mentions of the Master Chief as evidence that he isn't present at Earth, which is itself incorrect, as there is no evidence he is or isn't present. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and there is no citable, empirical proof within Ghosts of Onyx that confirms that he is not at Earth. Therefore, his status is unknown; therefore, it is entirely possible that this event in Ghosts of Onyx could have happened after Halo 2's ending. Peptuck 20:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Your comments have been considered and unfortunately contain no additional evidence as to warrant an edit. Based on this, I have personally contacted Eric Nylund for confirmation, as previously cited within Onyx.

His response concerning this issue will be posted on my site and further linked to Wikipedia.

Zeal 7:43, 4, November 2006 (UTC)

Additional Edit: I just noticed that you added the following line to my original explanation:

   "This isn't evidence that he hasn't arrived yet; merely evidence that Cortana has advised Hood that he is en    
    route.Peptuck 15:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)"

What you said here makes absolutely no sense. Being "en route" is the exact opposite of having arrived at your destination.

Meaning he has not reached his destination.

I would also like to remind you of the simple fact that Admiral Hood relayed Dr. Halsey's/Cortana's message to the other Spartans while they were on the orbital elevator. The only thing mentioned of Master Chief is that he was incoming via a Forerunner ship. (Onyx, page 212). Having personally briefed the Spartans on Cortana's message and Dr. Halsey's "new mission", he makes no update on Master Chief's position, clearly indicating he is not present.

Moreover, Master Chief personally opens a fleet wide (FleetCom) channel to every single individual over Earth upon his arrival in Halo 2. As seen below:

     NAV OFFICER (radio): We've got a new contact, unknown classification! 
     MASTER CHIEF: This is Spartan one-one-seven!
     MASTER CHIEF (radio): Can anyone hear me, over?
     LORD HOOD (to crewman off screen): Isolate that signal!
     LORD HOOD: Master Chief! You mind telling me what you're doing on that ship?
     MASTER CHIEF: Sir. Finishing this fight.
                                                  (Halo 2, in-game final cinematic)

The Chief has not yet arrived.

Hate to say it, but again people are jumping to conclusions. What in that passage says Chief opened a fleetwide signal? What if he had pointed a directed beam toward where Cairo station was supposed to be since he didn't know its current status, and hoped to raise Lord Hood if he was still on that station? Also, a LOT of stuff happens after the incident in the elevator, and Chief was said to be en route. Given the Forerunner capability with Slipspace, it's reasonable to think that ship would travel quite quickly or even instantaneously. Therefore even if he wasn't there at the time, he could have arrived quite soon. Or not. Cortana could have meant that he was preparing to attach to the Forerunner ship and hadn't left yet- we don't know. 75.14.57.10 18:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Because FleetCom is fleet-wide, hence the name: fleet communications. He then goes on to say:

MASTER CHIEF (radio): Can anyone hear me, over? (implying can anyone hear him)

Followed by: LORD HOOD (to crewman off screen): Isolate that signal! (implying the signal needed to be isolated to his ship)

It is a reasonable argument to assume Chief arrived sometime after the Spartans left Earth for Onyx, but it is unreasonable to assume he was present at the same time they were. At this time, Master Chief was not present.

I am awaiting Eric Nylund's official response. I can say that this part of the novel was intentionally left vague or is poorly written.

Zeal 19:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, here's what I think. I'm only on page 226, but I've read things off the internet too. In Eric's interview, he said it took place before, during, and after halo 2. The back of the book says, "But when the Master Cheif destroys Halo, something is triggered deep within Onyx, aincient Forerunner technology stirs, and fleets of UNSC and Covenant race to claim it to change the course of the Human-Covanant war." So I belive that on page 116, when the Sentinels come, that is the Forerunner technology stirring. Right there, thats when the first strike starts, when Master Cheif destroys Halo. So it's my best geuss that the Cheif is running around on the Halo in Halo 2 during the majoridy of the book.

Keiche 02:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

if you notice that a messange is sent by Cortanna ment to alert the UNSC forces near earth letting them know that the MC was in tran-sit to earth, unexpected the message was found by the survivors on Onyx rerouted the message including Dr.Haslys' also to earth. The onto earth were spartan IIs attack an OE captured by covies, to retrevie some nukes, thus gettin the message by Hood to go to Onyx, this means stop the crap of wear the Cheif hes just one spartan, main one but not the only this book shows that there is an universe outside the cheifs life. Oh yea um what causes what happens on Onyx is caused by Halo 2s actions when the Key is taken out by Keyes.Popa01 15:39 December (UTC)

Timeline

While it's not explicitly mentioned in the book, we have to assume that Fred, Will, and Linda had upgraded to Mk VI armour since returning to Earth, because Kelly would not have had the opportunity, and John is not present (save for one flashback chapter). That explains the artwork on the front cover: Kelly is wearing the Mk5, the Mk6 is either Fred, Will, or Linda, and the person in the SPI is Kurt or any of the S-IIIs.

So, having established that, and while keeping in mind the events in the book (particularly Cortana's transmission), it's safe to say that the book takes place sometime after First Strike, probably during the events of Halo 2.

The reason that there is ambiguity as to the whereabouts and wellbeing of John at the end of the book, we can present this: The forerunner vessel enters slipspace sometime during the book, but has not arrived by the time Fred, Will, and Linda head to Onyx. It is entirely possible, with the advanced slipspace technology on the forerunner ship, that they left Earth mere moments before John returned. Mk623SC20K 14:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Gamma Company

The book never mentions the location of the rest of the Gamma Company. The top three teams were combat training on Onyx, but the rest were off-world. Any ideas on where they could be? Chronolegion 17:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, I'm not sure the book states the total size of the Gamma Company. However, based on the previous 2 generations, I would assume it's somewhere in the 300 region (even though Ackerson wanted it to be over a 1000). Chronolegion 14:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that, too. I will check again if there is any mention of them, but if I remember right, those three teams are the only real mention of the company. Razer of Chaos 17:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure there was a reason the author wanted only a small number of S-IIIs on Onyx - it would've given the Spartans too much of a chance against the Covenant. On the other hand, if the Halos are activated, and the Spartans in the Sphere are the only ones who survive, then the full Gamma Company would've allowed humanity to be repopulated. Chronolegion 17:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Measurement errors or typos

I was wondering if any one else noticed that some of the height measurments given were a little out there? For instance while during the retelling of beta companies exploits its said that Lucy was tiny like Tom and 12yrs old but at one point 6 meters and 70 kilos(pg26).Now for those of us who dont know the metric system that converts Lucy's Height to a little under 20ft and weighing in around 160 pounds, making here a very freaky 12 year old. I was hopping someone could clarify this for me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.149.160.248 (talk) 13:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

1.6m = 5.2 foot

Spartans are unnaturally tall, if the IIs were huge then the IIIs, with Kurt's new training routine, would be fitter and larger. Bronzey 06:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually the S-III would be alot smaller, because they didn't get the same kind of "Enhancement Shot" the S-II did, so they would stay they same hieght as there norm would be.Spartan-110 17:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

That still doesn't explain the 6m height. I seriously doubt a Spartan could grow to be three times taller than a normal human. Chronolegion 17:37, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

It says "...only twelve years old, but at one point six meters and seventy kilos..." This means 1.6 meters and 70 kilos, NOT "and at one point, 6 meters and 70 kilos." wre2277 22:37, 19 May 2007

Hunters

it is known that the hunters left the covenent but in the book there are hunters on a brute ship, should this be mentioned? 15:57,15, may 2007

Just because there's a revolution in one part of the Covenant it doesn't mean everyone knows about it or follows through with it, especially during a planetary assault. The Hunters on the Brute ship are likely either unaware of the civil war or don't care. Peptuck 20:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Shield and Sword

Should there be a reference or something about the Halo 3 trailer where Cortana talks about "I am your shield, I am your sword" and there is a similar line in the book (I'm assuming that Halo is the sword and Onyx is the shield).Wild ste 20:07, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Linda?

If I'm not mistaken, Linda survived as well. This should be added to the plot/synopsis as it right now doesn't really give an explination where she is or what happened to her.Mallow's Basement 12:59, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Halo: Ghosts of Onyx/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Standing issues preventing this article from becoming a Good Article:

1a. The article has mostly decent writing, it could use a red-inking for some minor grammatical quibbles but nothing stands out as too awful of an error. It has, however, a couple accessibility issues for readers unfamiliar with the Halo universe. Specifically with regard to characters. "Kurt-051", who appears to be the main character, drops into the plot summary with no introduction as to who he is or even a mention that he's going to be the protagonist. Also, does this book seriously feature a Dyson sphere inside a planet? Because that's the impression I got from the summary, and that's not what a Dyson sphere is in normal usage. This may be a fault of the novel's author not doing his research rather than an error on your part, but if there isn't a Dyson sphere inside the planet in the book, then the summary needs to make it more clear where the sphere is located.
1b. Article does not appear to attempt compliance with Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/Style guidelines. Not all the sections there are necessarily going to be in every novel article, but this page is missing the "Publication History" and "Characters" sections, both of which can obviously be filled in since aspects of them are discussed elsewhere in the page.
6a. Image:Haloonyxcover.jpg does not have a fair use rationale.

Once those three issues are fixed, please tell me on my talk page so I can reevaluate the article. Good luck! --erachima talk 01:58, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Alright, the image rationale is now in place, but we still have accessibility issues and are missing the content from the character section. I believe the accessibility issue will be solved by the addition of the characters section, though, so this shouldn't take too long to fix.

To clarify on the characters section, even when a detailed character list exists, book articles need to briefly summarize the part played by each of the main cast. The current section makes a good introduction to characters section, but we still need a definition list of the primary figures in the book which explains their role within the plot of the novel. For an example from an article I've worked on, see Bleach (manga)#Main characters, which has a good minimum summary length per character.

For Publication History, that section is used to compile interesting facts about the novel's publication. On reflection, however, it might not be necessary in this case, since the relevant interesting information (the international release and reprinting due to typos) is already covered in the reception section. So I'll withdraw that demand.

Once you've finished the character section, or if you have any further clarifications to request, tell me on my talk page. --erachima talk 20:40, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

The normal standard for character sections is about one full paragraph per character. (If there isn't that much to say about them, they probably aren't a major character.) --erachima talk 19:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, you've dealt with my complaints and nothing else stands out at me, so I'll pass the page. I do think you could have put a bit more effort into the characters section, but I can't exactly keep sending you back forever until you guess how I would have written it, so whatever. --erachima talk 07:45, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Archive 1