Talk:Hallaur

{{editsemiprotected}}

Not done: requests for changes to the page protection level should be made at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Salvio ( ^{Let's talk 'bout it!}) 10:25, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

General discussion

Dear All

A request to all before editing this articles please ensure that your language and wordings and grammar matches with the quality standards don't just keep editing the page so that it leads to the articles being tagged as disputed. - Hum Aliwalay

Dear Administrator, The author of this article is a native of this town itself.That was only given to avoid any dispute based on ones point of view.The facts given in this article are true to best of my knowledge and are based on my personal reserch and consultation to elders of the town. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Javedrizvi (talk • contribs) 08:38, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Dear Administrator,

I do supplement the statements published by the author of this article. I am basically from Hallaur and know what's mentioned by author is in accordance to the facts and opinions expressed by all fellow residents of Hallaur. Pls pardon as this my first time to post anything hence I regret if any mistake committed.

Regards Rizvi —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rizvisajjad86 (talk • contribs) 16:07, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Dear Wikipedia Team, When are you going to remove the disputed tag and orphaned tag from this articles , please be neutral and remove these 2 tags as I have edited this articles like anything and have also cited internal and external references to maintain the neutrality of this artile. Hope now the dispute will be resolved. Regards - Rizvi (Rizvisajjad27 (talk) 08:17, 26 February 2009 (UTC))

Dear Sir, I am closely associated with Hallaur and Hallauris.Indepth information is given in this article.However information in respect of Agraharis/Guptas and Dalit should also be incorporated. JP Pandey —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.153.44.130 (talk) 18:13, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Article issues

Dear All,

I have edited this page to the best of my knowledge and extracting information from various outside sources as well. I have also cited references fro various government and privately owned domain web sites. Also have corrected and edited the grammar in this articles and removed some irrelevant info which have no sources for verification.

With this into consideration I am removing all disputed tags as on 23/05/2010. Please be cooperative and neutral enough.

A request to all before editing this articles please ensure that your language and wordings and grammar matches with the quality standards don't just keep editing the page so that it leads to the articles being tagged as disputed. - Hum Aliwalay

The article still has many many issues. No inline citations means we don't know if statements have proper sources. Secondly, statements like the ones listed below are not written from a neutral point of view.

• Hallaur is considerably a well developed place and in literacy and other developments Hallaur is much ahead of all neighboring villages
• Padrians were/are very active and self praising people. They are able to get their work done anyhow, the art of emotional blackmailing is very popular among all Pandrians. No doubt a few of them are good and God fearing also.
• Hallauris are absolutely good looking race, humble down to earth, talented beyond their human resources. They are creativity personified.

Lastly, while a good effort was made, it is obvious that much of the article was written by someone who has English as a second language. If the above two points are fixed, I will go through the final version, correcting grammar, spelling, etc. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 13:32, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Have once again put some effort to somehow get the rid of disputed issues like I have deleted the above stated point about Pandrians as it seems personal opinion of the author rather than verified universally acceptable truth. But other 2 points are factual statements supplemented by many natives of neighboring villages and even at district level. Please refer contribution of Mr JP Pandey in this talk page earlier.

But Still, other points like Development and Good looking statements. I have edited these 2 statements with deletion of some peacock terms so that it becomes acceptable and neutral enough to be published. Also the website which has all info pertaining to this article is having most of its contents in Hindi which is translated by author of this article in English. Despite the editing activity I will still not remove the disputed tag onces its reviewed again. Please bring to my notice any peacock terms now.Humaliwalay (talk) 16:25, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

More examples, "They are a unique community..." and "The literacy rate amongst the people is remarkably higher than other people living in surrounding area, however quality of education is deteriorating day by day". Sourcing remains very problematic if the majority of the article is tied to one source - none of the links seem to meet Wikipedia's definition of reliability. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 18:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

An example just added: "Dalits being the persecuted and most downtrodden community not only in Uttar Pradesh but in entire India still respect the Hallauri Syeds for coming to their rescue at a time when they were chased down by the local upper caste Hindus.". This has no place in the article without cites to multiple reliable sources. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 12:11, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Note these sourcing and neutrality issues have not been resolved so I've re-added the tags. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 15:00, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I have tried to fix the References. Article needs to be re-written as it gives single POV and does not covers all the aspects. It is based on personal websites/blogs and severely lacks inline citations. Hope we can get better out of it. --Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider^tc_s 06:31, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

It seems there is prejudice in Faiz Haider's opinion and tagging of this article, best effort has been put and for his comments like {personal websites/blogs} is absolutely false and absurd. Pls recheck and revisit the links again. For your information those are India's state level Government and NGO web links and not personal websites of Hallauris, secondly about Hallaur.in and .info these are used for deriving history of Hallaur so that's not blog of any person. Even Governments and NGO's will do so for taking history. Taking into consideration the lack of authenticity in your feedback on references of this article, I am removing the tag. Hope everything is clear now. Pls avoid prejudice. Humaliwalay (talk) 08:22, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Mr. HAW!

I never tagged this article (it was re-tagged by User:NeilN on 2010-05-23 18:49:11 after your removal of tags), infact I was trying to verify the references, fixing and arranging them. Regarding your comment his comments like {personal websites/blogs} is absolutely false and absurd. can be termed as personal attack. Content of this article has little to do with the references of India's state level Government and NGO web links. If you think it is based on these websites(or any of references in the list) you may start working on inline citations, that would be more in betterment of this article than accusing others without any reason.

Regarding Hallaur.in, indeed it is personal website may be not of individual but of group and Hallaur.info is under construction.

As per Government references even name of this article is not correct. All Gov references provided refer the place as Haloor & not Hallaur. I think this also needs to be fixed. May be content of article should be moved to namespace Haloor & a redirect put at Hallaur pointing to Haloor.

And finally your attitude and actions don't conform to your user name. First you should have verified and then put an accusations.

--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider^tc_s 09:32, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Mr. Faiz Thanks for your suggestion. However, I am afraid to say that your suggestion of [All Gov references provided refer the place as Haloor & not Hallaur. I think this also needs to be fixed. May be content of article should be moved to name space Haloor & a redirect put at Hallaur pointing to Haloor.] is not acceptable because Uttar Pradesh Government references are subjected to the Bhojpuri Language pronunciations and local accent. However the name Hallaur is universally accepted name. As per the records of national Government and all state level Governments wherever Hallauris have themselves registered, the name is spelled as Hallaur.

Would like to support with Example of India. India is spelled in English, but in Hindi which is the national language of India, India become Bharat Ganrajya, in Urdu which is one of the official language of India, India is spelled as Hindustan, in Arabic its Al-Hind etc.

Similar is the case with Iran which is redirected from Persia. Lebanon in English but Lubnān in Arabic. Similar is the case with Hallaur and Haloor. The page Haloor is already created by me and redirected to Hallaur to avoid any Ambiguity. The universally accepted name is HALLAUR not Haloor. All schools and other institutions whether govt or private are spelled as HALLAUR not Haloor. Hope my examples have made this clear. Pls help us out in adding more info and maintaining the neutrality of article. A separate article named as Haloor is already created and redirected to Hallaur page by me. Pls check Haloor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Humaliwalay (talk • contribs) 12:20, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Dear Mr Faiz & Others

Are you not seeing that history of Hallaur is being distorted ?Few persons are trying their level best to bring imaginery persons parallel to Meera Baba.They are even doing hard work to establish their close link with Meera Baba.Before doing any comment you must declare whether you are original Hallauri(from the family of Meera Baba)or a migrant?

Syed Tamanna Mehdi Rizvi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.153.44.130 (talk) 15:48, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Mr Tamanna!

What are you trying to say? You mean that no one except who belongs to Hallaur( & that according to you is from the family of Meera Baba & others are migrant) should edit this article? Who are you to ask all these questions & set these parameters. If you have anything against the content of the article you must point out the specific detail and bring your proof against it and we will see to fix it. Regarding your allegation that I(as in your comment I'm the first person of address & the only person who is named) introduced some imagenary person to this article, let me tell you that I never added any text to this article apart from fixing reference section. And regarding who I am from where I am any all other questions please visit my User Profile I think there I have mentioned more than enough about me.

--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider^tc_s 05:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

To All Contributor, After a long review, I couldn't find any authentic reference, which corresponds to history of this town. Reference of two website should be removed immediately as these website are poorly done. We will act consistently with our view of who we truly are, whether that view is accurate or not. Second major concern is quality of this article is insane. English of this article is very pathetic and requires a major revision. Editor Value (talk) 21:16, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Please cite some example like User:NeilN has done earlier. Merely saying that English of this article is pathetic is a direct attack, so you better cite those statements which are having wrong grammar rather than attacking the article. Humaliwalay (talk) 12:48, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Dear User:NeilN and Others, Thank you for highlighting the shortcomings of this article... About Persecution and the condition of Dalits have cited 3 references from websites of 2 Non Profit and Human Rights welfare Organizations. Pls check the references list which gives clear Idea about How Dalits were treated in India earlier and even in some places today. About Begum Hazrat Mahal's arrival and Hallauri peoples support for her is clear from the Historical evidences preserved by Hallauris and its a fact that she migrated to Nepal following confrontation with British forces. Hallaur is in district Domariaganj which is few kilometers away from Nepal and hence this proves the fact about her arrival in Hallaur. About migration of other people from neighboring villages in last 75 years is once again proven in history of Hallaur and is fact which is approved by Hallauris [refer Mr. Pandey's feedback], the tribes named as Pandri, Bangawa, Pachuwa and others are still prevalent apart from the Shahi tribe who are direct descendants of Meera Baba's family. About Rizvis of Sabzevar migrating to Indian Subcontinent, its apparent from internal sources like the article on Sabzevar and Rizvi which is indicative that its a city in Razavi Khorasan province in Iran, the name itself makes it clear that entire province is named after Razavi or Rizvi sayyids in Iran still today. After provision of these evidences I am removing the factual disputed tags, however would appreciate still your contributions towards the improvement of entire article's organization and framing. Humaliwalay (talk) 06:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Dear HAW!

The problem with this article persists, it lacks reliable & verifiable references. Even the content recently added falls in the category unrefrenced. The points you stated above have not given any satisfactory solution which can result into the removing the factual disputed tags infact they point to Original research. I'll suggest that in place of adding unsourced new material, inline citaion should be provided for already existing material. As you are the person who has added all this matter I think you are the best one to do it.

--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider^tc_s 09:17, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

It's good to see article is moving in correct direction with introduction of inline citations. Good job HAW! keep it up. If you want anything from me please let me know. --Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider^tc_s 14:04, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for recognition of effort, I will try my best to put in some more and well connected inline citations. At the same time would appreciate if you and User NEIN and anyone helps out in this exercise to trace and add some inline citations as well. Thanking everyone in anticipation. Humaliwalay (talk) 07:16, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll try to fullfill the request but frankly speaking I have not able to find much references for the content; that is why I asked orignal editors who added tthe content to work on citations. --Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider^tc_s 06:34, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Dear Mr Faiz, would welcome your contributions and feedback on the following articles as well:

• Shia Islam in India
• Tatbeer

Humaliwalay (talk) 07:16, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, for asking. These articles are under my watch. Will turn to them once have enough time to review them. --Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider^tc_s 06:38, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Dear Mr Faiz,Some corrections were incorporated regarding All India Shia Conference,which is incorrect.Fakhre Qaum Kalbe Abbas was not the present or past Pesh Imam of Hallaur,He was founder member of Sarfaraz newspaper,Qaumi ghar of lucknow and All India Shia Yateem khana.AISC was presided by Janab Abu Mohd,JP(justice of peace).Though I was young I attended the conference in the year 1968.Please correct if you can.Syed Jamal Nasser,Gorakhpursajnasser@yahoo.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.133.212.21 (talk) 14:18, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

References Needed Tag

I just wanted to let you know that I added the "few references" tag because most of the article is critically lacking in necessary references. At the moment, only the lead and the Demographics section have references. The rest of the article definitely needs them as well, as WP requires that all information be verifiable in reliable sources. Please leave this tag until the article has a sufficient number of references throughout. If most of the sections gain references, then we can move the tag to just the reference-less sections, but since now that's the majority, it makes more sense for the tag to be on the article as a whole. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:46, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Lede translation & demographics issue

With due regards to all contributors,
I am a native of Hallaur and I am sure that even not a single christian person is living in Hallaur.It is true that some christian fellows are employed in St.Thomas School,Hallaur but they all reside in Schools'campus.The campus is itself in Shyamwadeeh village.The translation of 'Daaman-e koh-e-himalaya'should be 'in the foothill of the mountain Himalaya'. Meesam Abbas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.153.44.130 (talk) 07:56, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, for pointing the issues. I have fixed the translation in lede & put tag for demographics. --Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider^tc_s 08:18, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Dear Sir, Hallauri culture is unique in nature.Hallauris have adapted different practices in vogue in nearby areas besides different practices allowed in Islam.Theirs'is a changing society, rather they follow good practices and forbid which are against the spirit of Islam(Such as different non-islamic practices followed in past marriage ceremonies). Brother Faiz please try to give the glimpses of unique nature of hallauri culture. Is it not a matter of pride that even not a single case of murder, rape or robbery was reported in known history of Hallaur and nobody was covicted for a major crime. There was never any riot. Comprehensive hormony, non-violence and brothehood are also qualities of Hallauri culture. Hallauris are/have been true patriots. Brother Faiz you are doing commendable job, may Allah bless you to do more. A lot of thanks to Wikipedia team. We wish to welcome wikipedia team in Hallaur.

Hasan Sarwar Rizvi, cousin of Meesam Abbas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.153.44.130 (talk) 17:54, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your gentle words for me. We will deffinetely like to include the things mentioned by you but for all the matter which we post on Wikipedia require reliable, verifiable and authentic sources. Article at present has improved lot from what it was probably a couple of months ago but still requires great improvement. So any suggestion and constructive contribution is welcomed.

--Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider^tc_s 14:15, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia policies

As far as I can tell a small number of editors are working on this article using their own direct knowledge. I'm afraid there are severe problems with it. The key issues are that it is mainly based on original research, doesn't use reliable sources and isn't written in a neutral way. (The English also needs to be looked at.) Please read and be aware of the following Wikipedia policies:

Wikipedia:Reliable sources - this explains what sources you need to use. One's like footnotes 5, 6 and 7 are effectively blogs or websites supporting a cause and are excluded under the policy, and should be removed. The Uttar Pradesh links are dead. So effectively this article is without sources.

Wikipedia: No original research - your own knowledge (even if correct) must not be used. Only information from reliable published sources can be used. Almost the whole of this article is unsupported by sources and generated from 'original research'

Wikipedia:Neutral point of view - it's quite clearly wriiten from the a point of view of Shia Islam and hostile to the treatment of Dalits. There is nothing wrong with those points of view but they are not allowed under the policy to influence or be apparent in the content of the article.

Please read these three policies carefully. DeCausa (talk) 14:28, 9 February 2011 (UTC)