Talk:HMS Magnanime (1748)

A fact from HMS Magnanime (1748) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 11 May 2013 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that when she was nine years old, Magnanime returned to the place of her origin to launch an attack upon it?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2013/May.

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Military history: Maritime / British / European / French / Early Modern C‑class

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This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

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	European military history task force
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	Early Modern warfare task force (c. 1500 – c. 1800)

Flag in infobox

Should the French flag (Marine Nationale and French merchant ensign. Used from 1794 to 1814/1815) really be used for this ship? Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 01:03, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that the actual French naval flag in use during this time was a pure white flag (File:Naval Ensign of the Kingdom of France.svg) - the Tricolour was first introduced in 1794, during the French Revolution. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 01:42, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and it should be Great Britain and not United Kingdom. I lifted the infobox from a similar article and neglected to change that info. Thanks--Ykraps (talk) 14:23, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The British infobox flag has just been changed by User:Trappist the monk to the White Ensign, which is inappropriate, as during the period 1707-1801 the flag used was that of the Kingdom of Great Britain. However I have to admit to being confused, as there appear to be two different versions in WP - the flag shown in Template:Shipboxflag as the naval ensign for the Kingdom of Great Britain is not the same as File:Naval Ensign of Great Britain (1707-1800).svg . I hope that someone can she some light on this. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 15:46, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, could also be the Red or Blue or White Ensign. According to White Ensign, the color is associated with the squadron during the time. So, is the flag to represent the Royal Navy? the squadron? the king (King's Colours)?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:01, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is more explanation of the system of colours associated with the different squadrons at Admiral (Royal Navy). Since the "Admiral of the red" (admiral of the fleet) was the seniormost admiral, this is perhaps the reason why the Red Ensign was selected by whoever put it into the shipinfobox template.

However, in Union Jack#History there is this statement: "In 1634, King Charles I restricted its use to the royal ships. After the Acts of Union 1707, the flag gained a regularised status as "the ensign armorial of the Kingdom of Great Britain", the newly created state." Of course since WP isn't regarded as a RS, this will need to be verified; and note that if there is a consensus to change the shipinfobox template, it is fully protected, so an admin will need to make the change. Cheers, Bahudhara (talk) 02:55, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ship infoboxes use the ensigns, the Union Jack is a Jack (flag) and have special uses on a ship. The use of the Union Flag on a ship also has special uses. The template used to call to the white ensign for 1707-1801, but was changed to the red ensign. By whom or on what reasoning I am unsure, though I'm fairly sure it was not discussed. The flag represents the navy. The problem with the ensigns of the RN prior to 1863 is that a warship wore the flag flown by the admiral under whose orders she came under. A sloop that was part of a squadron commanded by a rear-admiral of the blue wore a blue ensign. If she was ordered to join a different squadron, one commanded by a vice-admiral of the white for example, then she lowered the blue ensign and raised the white. If the ship was not acting under the orders of a particular flag officer, perhaps because she was on an independent cruise, came directly under admiralty orders and wore the red ensign. For this ship, she might have worn all three flags during her career. As long as a correct ensign for the period is chosen, i.e. not one of the ensigns from before 1707 or after 1801, it will serve to represent the navy at the time. Whether it is the 1707 red ensign or the 1707 white ensign is another matter and may need more discussion. Benea (talk) 15:12, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have always thought using ensigns on ships before 1863 to be a bit daft because, as Benea points out, a ship could easily have flown all three colours during its career. My personal preference would've been the national flag to denote its nationality and not worry whether this adequately portrays its service branch. This is not the agreed practice however and a white naval ensign is normally used (presumably because it is most representative of the Royal Navy).--Ykraps (talk) 18:56, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]