Talk:Greensboro, North Carolina

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• Sbmeirow • Talk • 18:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Cleanup

What is it that needs to be cleaned up on this page? LegCircus 02:44, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I just added Andy Cabic to the famous residents section and noticed that it seemed cluttered. What about alphabetical order, and maybe organizing the section into parts that order people according to what they're famous for (i.e. Famous Musicians, Famous Sports Professionals, Famous Authors, etc.). Also, what's with the Chris Daughtry entry? They way I read it it seemed that he should be listed in the McLeansville or Oak ridge famous residents sections or, assuming Oak Ridge counts as a part of Greensboro, do we edit his entry to say he's from Greensboro? 65sense 15:17, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Triad Tower

It there any information on the future Triad Tower? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.54.213.68 (talk • contribs) 22:46, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Grasshoppers Logo

I removed the grasshoppers logo on the page, as it was blocking the content.--Jnelson09 00:30, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Greensboro ambush/massacre/shootout

The description of the Greensboro ambush, massacre, shootout, is a bit lacking. It's an extremely contestable point though. And the Klan, who caravaned into the anti-klan protest, got out of their cars and shot many of the protesters are not "counter-protesters." they did not counter protest - they got out of their cars and starting shooting. they had no interest in protesting. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.154.65.5 (talk • contribs) 06:02, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

How is the name pronounced? Can someone add an IPA transcription? 86.136.94.95 01:32, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

What Greensboro?! It's pronounced grEEns-burr-Oh (where capital letters show emphasis on the vowel sound). As for IPA, I have no idea. (I live near Greensboro) --TinMan 04:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, that helps. I asked because it seems to me that it could conceivably be pronounced [ɡɹiːnsbʌɹə], [ɡɹiːnsbɔɹoʊ] or [ɡɹiːnsbɹə]. Your response rules out the last one (I don't know if that pronunciation is even found at all in the USA, and the 1895 change of spelling in this case makes it even less likely here), but if there's emphasis on the last syllable, it makes me doubt if it could really be a schwa, as in [-bʌɹə]. I won't add anything to the article, because I'm unsure whether it's nearer to [-bɔɹoʊ], [-bʌɹoʊ], or something else. It probably seems really obvious to anyone who's heard "Greensboro" spoken, but the pronunciation of "boro"/"borough"/"burgh" as it varies around the English-speaking world is always a tricky one, so if someone who can transcribe it in IPA could offer some input, that would be great. 86.136.94.95 17:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I understand. It seems as though the pronunciation of "Greensboro" didn't change when it changed names from "Greensborough". The last sound is definately an "O" vowel sound, as if you were reciting the alphabet. I'm not a linguist so I'm not pretending to know what those IPA symbols mean. --TinMan 18:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

If someone can provide me a good link where I might learn how to use IPA correctly (maybe I'm just skimming IPA too fast but it seemed unhelpful), I can give it a try. Otherwise, I could just use this chart at http://m-w.com. -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 18:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

You might find International Phonetic Alphabet for English more useful than the main IPA article, as it lists example words so you can see which symbols correspond to which familiar sounds. 86.136.94.95 01:02, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Perfect. I have always pronounced it [ɡɹiːnsbɜːɹəʊ] (greens-bir-oe). Given the traditional southern drawl, however, [ɡɹiːnsbʊɹəʊ] (greens-boor-oe) seems more correct. If it helps, I see the emphasis in the word as being only on the first syllable. -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 01:25, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I could agree with [ɡɹiːnsbɔɹoʊ] as well (although [ɡɹiːnsbʊɹəʊ] sounds natural to me). My accent may prevent me from recognizing the correct answer. In local usage, it seems like the second syllable in the word is all but ignored, but not excluded (so definitely not [ɡɹiːnsbɹə]). -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 01:30, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, I think [ɡɹiːnsbʌɹəʉ] is the closest. That's what I hear on the local news and basically everywhere. The next closest would be your "[ɡɹiːnsbɜːɹəʊ] (greens-bir-oe)" --TinMan 02:50, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I think I used the wrong "u" for the oh sound. It should be the u with two dots over it. I'll fix.--TinMan 21:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Gate City

Why is Greensboro's nickname "Gate City"? Is it a gateway to the Carolinas? Do the houses have many gates? It's just silly to have a nickname without an explanation behind it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.161.226.112 (talk • contribs) 15:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

the rail hub made it a gateway to well, anywhere. Not really that creative, if you ask me. Cptjeff — Preceding undated comment added 23:22, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I've lived in the area most of my life and I still don't know where that nickname came from. I've wondered about it myself. I just figured it had something to do with the Battle of Guilford Courthouse, but that's just a flat out guess. --TinMan 17:50, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

You're right about the railway thing. I now know. Interesting fact. --TinMan 21:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

'Gateway to the Piedmont' resulted in Greensboro being dubbed "Gate City."Johnny Camaro —Preceding undated comment added 00:53, 16 March 2009 (UTC).

It's because of the intersection of I-40 and I-85 I believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.192.58.118 (talk) 22:48, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Its the gateway to the dirty south offcourse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.48.124.244 (talk) 00:04, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Cleanup?

Around the "Education" section of this article we get into a mass of external links, some of which have their own page. Any idea what to do?AMP'd 00:18, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

With internal links (like this one or OTRS (random example)), red links mean that the page hasn't been created - blue that it has. With internal links, it's best to leave them in place: WP:LINK tells us that links should be kept where relevant to the context - obviously the links to schools here are much better than writing about each school in the article. Martinp23 21:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism?

I think some IP address vandalized this page...unless we didn't need Greensboro's history. If this was legit please revert my edit. AMP'd 20:17, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Yep - that was vandalism, and a good revert. If you want a formal definition of vandalism, see WP:VAND -- Martinp23 21:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

References

This page is very long to have no references at all—ideally every WIkipedia article will have references. I changed the Sister Cities link someone added into a reference, and added a Refs section. It'd be great if other editors could substantiate some of the great information in the article. —johndburger 02:32, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

More emphasis on Quakerism?

Although I may have simply been brought up in a quaker-biased community, I would think that this article would include more emphasis on the Quaker roots of Greensboro, since the Guilford woods were the beginning of the underground railroad near one of the Quaker meeting houses, and there are many other quaker meetings in the are for an area far from Pennsylvania. --65.188.149.173 04:37, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Employment outlook?

I am curious, for those folks living here, are there employment opportunities and if so, are they more for blue collar or white collar? Seeing as it is a university town I would imagine things are looking good, but I just wonder, please. 24.165.20.220 23:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

The Piedmont Triad (Winston-Salem, Greensboro, High Point pop. 1.4mm MSA)is still largely a manufacturing hub albeit an evolving one. The area is turning over from textiles, tobacco and furniture to a transportation hub, bio-tech and skilled manufactured products. The 40/85 corridor running from RDU-Greensboro-Charlotte is a rapidly growing area. NC will be the 7th most populous state by 2010. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.16.9.11 (talk) 05:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Bridgestone Aircraft Tire is moving to Mayodan nearby, which has both white and blue collar jobs either evailable or becoming available. -Mike Payne 11:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Revert from Feb 18th

Hi - I just reverted an edit due to some provocative wording, about neighborhoods having won their fight by routing flights over other neighborhoods). While I agree that the article on Greensboro is out of balance, I suggest to attempt to represent either sides rather than letting onself down to the daily local political rant. Anyway - just a suggestion, I won't be opposing further edits here. Thanks, Jens Koeplinger 02:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree recent edits have inserted a great deal of subjectivity to this entry. Hopefully the author will return to edit their own work. exwhysee — Preceding undated comment added 16:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Neighborhoods?

It doesn't mention Lake Jeanette as a neighborhood. Is this not big enough to be considered? I'm moving there and am curious. Speaking of which, is it Lake Jeanette or Lake Janette? -Mike Payne 09:06, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

The text refers to the influence of the "popularity of the automobile," then a moment later to "streetcar suburbs." Streetcars are not automobiles, and development along streetcar lines looks very different from automobile-driven development. So which is it here? Or are these two sentences actually talking about different parts of the city? - 66.37.81.26 05:18, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Size

I recently reverted a change that added the text "It (Greensboro) is also the 3rd largest city in North Carolina" because it was repetitive. I'm pretty sure that size refers to population, and the text was added right above a statement that said "Greensboro is the third most populous city in North Carolina". Can we figure out how large Greensboro is in terms of area and compare it to other cities to remove confusion? - AMP'd 20:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Blandwood Mansion Picture

I edited the caption under the picture of Blandwood Mansion specifically because the Mansion is mentioned, but no connection is made between that and the photo of the mansion itself. So I am going to change it back, do not change it. --68.155.245.251 00:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Famous People - Survivor

I changed Kelly Wigglesworth to Kelly Wiglesworth (both are the same page) because the spelling of the page that the link directs to is the second. There is no reason to correct the spelling to have two G's. - AMP'd 16:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Unique Park Neighborhoods

I removed the section about Greensboro's unique park oriented neighborhoods. Park neighborhoods are not unique to Greensboro (see Myers Park in Charlotte, Cameron Park in Raleigh, Roland Park in Baltimore...etc) nor do all these neighborhoods include the work park in their name (Starmount Forest, Lake Daniel). Most west Greensboro neighborhoods have parks within their bounds, but so do a great number in High Point, Winston-Salem, Durham, etc. It was a popular suburban template for most communities built on rolling terrain in the early twentieth century. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.13.201.23 (talk) 19:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Inappropriate tone

Much of the arts section reads like a brochure:

• See non-traditional and original works ...
• Enjoy over 100 summer concerts ...

I can just delete the unencyclopedic bits if no one else gets to this. —johndburger 01:54, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

The last paragraph of the introductory section also has similar problems. "Collecting accolades for its beauty and liveability"? --Xinophiliac (talk) 18:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I concur on the problem with the last introductory paragraph. It's written like an advertisement in my opinion. I came to the discussion page to point that out.--Unmotivate 04:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unmotivate (talk • contribs)

Greensboro's Metro Population?

There seems to be some dispute over Greensboro's MSA population. On it's wiki page, I've the number change from 689,000 to 1.7million to 704,000 and then back to 689,000 in a span of one week.At the same time, High-Point's metro has remained at 1.7million. I realize that their is an difference between a MSA and a CSA. I'm just wondering why the triad area can just be considered and MSA instead of a CSA. Greensboro, High Point and Winston-Salem pretty much has the same metro area. Is it because the area between the cities are not urbanized enough? —Preceding unsigned comment added by East89 (talk • contribs) 21:33, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

A place called Greensboro, North Carolina

Greensboro is the 3rd largest city in north carolina.Home to 223,891 residents.Its the best place to relax.July is the hottest time of the year, when Janurary is the coldest time of the year with the temperture of 43 degrees farenhieght.Greensboro is the 40th most fun state, so why wouldn"t you want to go there.Plus thats 40 out of 262 cities in the United States of America.Just picture that 262 cities in the United States of America when Greensboro is number 40,thats a big differance.So when you go to Greensboro, North Carolina think about this and be thankful that god gave us Greensboro, North Carolina.

                                               By, Sidnie LaMotte, age 9
                                                   Plainfield Illinois  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.148.216 (talk) 23:40, 13 March 2009 (UTC) 

Orphaned references in Greensboro, North Carolina

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Greensboro, North Carolina's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "PopEstBigCities":

• From Raleigh, North Carolina: "Table 1: Annual Estimates of the Population for Incorporated Places Over 100,000, Ranked by July 1, 2008 Population: April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2008" (CSV). 2008 Population Estimates. United States Census Bureau, Population Division. July 1, 2008. Retrieved July 2, 2009.
• From List of United States cities by population: "Table 1: Annual Estimates of the Population for Incorporated Places Over 100,000, Ranked by July 1, 2009 Population: April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2009" (CSV). 2009 Population Estimates. United States Census Bureau, Population Division. 2010-06-22. Retrieved 2010-06-22.

Reference named "PopEstCBSA":

• From Raleigh, North Carolina: "Annual Estimates of the Population of Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas: April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2008" (CSV). 2008 Population Estimates. United States Census Bureau, Population Division. July 1, 2009. Retrieved July 2, 2009.
• From Morrisville, North Carolina: "Annual Estimates of the Population of Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas: April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2006 (CBSA-EST2006-01)" (CSV). 2006 Population Estimates. United States Census Bureau, Population Division. 2007-04-05. Retrieved 2007-04-05.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 08:40, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://library.uncg.edu/dp/crg/topicalessays/dudleyatprotest.aspx. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:48, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Structure

Hi. I'm going through all the US Cities (as per List of United States cities by population) in an effort to provide some uniformity in structure. Anyone have an issue with me restructuring this article as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline. I won't be changing any content, merely the order. Occasionally, I will also move a picture just to clean up spacing issues. I've already gone through the top 20 or so on the above list, if you'd like to see how they turned out. Thoughts? Onel5969 (talk) 19:52, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Downtown mobs and brawls

While the IPs are reverting, the fact is, that section really isn't needed and is more WP:NOTNEWS than encyclopedia, so I think leaving it deleted is best for the encyclopedia. Dennis - 2¢ 03:00, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

You're probably right, I reverted since it is cited material, but I won't again. Good point. I think it's one of those "on the fence" issues. Could go either way. Onel5969 (talk) 03:17, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

• Again someone reverted it back in and IPs reverted it back out. At this point, I'm saying it is contentious and it needs to be left out, via WP:BRD unless a discussion is held with a consensus to say otherwise. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 00:23, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

List of people from Greensboro, North Carolina

I started this list because the list here was ridiculously large and it starts to look like petty bragging. There is more material under that section that is unsourced and due to get deleted, or just minor. The article simply has too much fluffy content. Greensboro is an interesting town with a rich history, we don't need the fluff here. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 00:21, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

What constitutes Media?

Greensboro 101 (http://www.greensboro101.com) is being removed from the Media section as not being notable. I think the notable requirement applies to stand alone entries, so the bar should be lower for simple inclusion in this section. Nonetheless, Greensboro 101 is notable. It has its roots as a pioneer in the citizen journalism movement and was noticed by The Wall Street Journal, The LA Times, the Annengurg J School, and Jay Rosen among others. It continues to honor its roots by featuring writing and media from bloggers, citizens, independent institutions and organizations alongside content from "traditional" local media. It has been in constant operation since 2005, longer that some of the other media listed in this section. It is on track to have an annualized 1 million human page views, via half a million visits from an estimated 60,000 human individuals (bots and search engines not included.) It is alternative and independent media devoted to giving attention to matters of local importance without prejudice for or allegiance to any single source.

The "not notable" justification came with no explanation. I have offered an explanation for why it is notable. Unfamiliarity should not cloud judgement here. Please restore it and its link. It is appropriate and important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.138.132 (talk) 23:20, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi. Please read the guidelines on notability. You can start at WP:GNG. Trivial mentions do not constitute notability. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:59, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing to those guidelines. I consulted them last night and they are pretty clear when they state: "The notability guidelines do not apply to article or list content." The people removing Greensboro 101 from a LIST within an article because it isn't notable, in their opinion, are making two errors: Operating from ignorance of the site's history and its place in the community and, two, misapplying Wikipedia's written guidelines. I'm going to restore it. If someone removes it again, please provide a reason that can be sustained through a proper application of the guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.138.132 (talk) 16:30, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

You are correct, however, if you continued reading those guidelines it talks about due weight, and mentioning a non-notable entity may give that entity undue weight, in relation to the other entities mentioned in the article. In those cases, consensus on the individual pages should be obtained. Which is what you've begun to attempt. If enough folks weigh in, using substantive, policy-based decisions to include that website, then it should be included. And vice-versa. Right now, it shouldn't be re-added until, and if, that consensus is reached. Additionally, any information which is added to any article can be challenged if it is not supported by a citation from an independent, reliable source. Hope this helps. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 18:46, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Am I understanding your concern correctly that including Greensboro101.com may give undue weight to Greensboro, NC?

Consideration of "Due Weight" is to maintain neutrality of point of view "which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic." When looking at the other content in the section in which Greensboro101.com belongs, it is doubtful we are even dealing with "point of view" here as evidenced by the absurdity of the concern that including Greensboro101.com in a list of local media would give "undue weight" to Greensboro, NC. The Media section is merely descriptive lists. It's not point of view. Nonetheless, for the sake of discussion, let's consider this standard and its requirement for representing views "without bias" and "as far as possible": removing Greensboro101.com is not meeting those goals. Removal is contrary to those goals. Removal is biased and limiting.

Also, suggesting that this addition could be challenged because it is not "supported by a citation from an independent, reliable source," is to ignore the nature of this entire Media section -- an intentional introduction, yet again, of bias. Look at the newspaper entries in the same section Those newspapers and their descriptions are listed without citation. So let's be fair and unbiased as the guideline cited by Onel5969 requires of us. If lists of local media can include entries without citation simply because those entities exist as local media, it is unfair and biased to impose citation criteria on one media entity that is not required of the others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.138.132 (talk) 13:12, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Usually when folks say they don't want to discuss something further, they stop discussing it. That is, unless they are not really interested in a discussion, but simply want their own opinions to be voiced. Regardless, this will be my last communication with you, please see the below discussion. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 14:13, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

My apologies if I've missed something. Where, other than your last comment, has anybody said they don't want to discuss something further? In order to participate in good faith and one must pay attention and not make misrepresentations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.138.132 (talk) 15:21, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

And you have my apologies. After our last interaction an ip editor left the message I reference in the below discussion. It came so close on the heals of our interaction, I thought it was you. That's part of the issue when dealing with ip editors, you can never be sure who you're talking to, so you are absolutely correct, in the spirit of AGF, I will take you at your word that you did not leave the message. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 15:32, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough. And I take your point about IP editors. As I'm becoming more involved, I can see the value of using a screen name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.138.132 (talk) 15:50, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm unsure why any half-rational listing of Greensboro, North Carolina-area media would omit Greensboro101.com. As a longtime local blogger (since 1998), journalist (since 1987) and commentator, when I want to know what the geographic area's online community thinks about a subject, I go there first. As noted by other commenters, the site has been a longtime anchor in the area's citizen-journalism movement -- a movement observed and reported upon by national media outlets beginning more than a decade ago. And also as noted by other commenters, removing Greensboro101.com from the list seems to run contrary to the list's own criteria. Lexalexander (talk) 16:15, 6 November 2015 (UTC)lexalexander (Lex Alexander)

Greensboro 101 absolutely belongs on any meaningful list of local media. The site aggregates and curates local news and commentary, and has been a relevant part of the GSO media scene for many years. -- Edward Cone, longtime journalist, blogger, and former News & Record columnist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.229.52.169 (talk) 16:34, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Greensboro 101 is central to the online news scene in Greensboro, NC. I've been a journalist and blogger in the area since 2002 and Greensboro 101 has been an important part of the media scene for at least a decade. It's become increasingly important as newspapers have scaled back coverage and is a central place for people to learn about what's happening in the community. I'm currently the editor of YES! Weekly in Greensboro and fully support Greensboro 101 being included in this Wikipedia article. - Jeff Sykes, Editor, YES! Weekly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.71.8.31 (talk) 16:48, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Triad City Beat also should be included in the list. They are an alternative newspaper that circulates in the area about 6,000 copies each week. They have been in publication for almost two years now and are members of the Association of Alternative News Media. Not sure if they are in the NC Press association or not. They definitely qualify as a newspaper. Jeff Sykes, Editor, YES! Weekly — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.71.8.31 (talk) 16:53, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I am the editor of Triad City Beat, a 2-year-old altweekly in covering the NC Piedmont Triad region. I've been involved in the alternative press since 1994, and my staff and I have won both sate and national awards. One correction to Sykes: We have never made fewer than 10,000 copies a week. Can't understand why anyone would try to keep us off this list. I'll also vouch for Greensboro101, which has been aggregating Greensboro news for more than a decade. Just a few weeks ago they broke a pretty big story, too. — Brian Clarey, editor in chief, Triad City Beat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.75.234.185 (talk) 19:58, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Also: The Hamburger Square Post has been gone for years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.75.234.185 (talk) 20:11, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

• I have no idea if all the new accounts and IPs are one person or just buddies, but obviously it is a coordinated effort. These are what we call WP:SPAs, which aren't taken as serious as established editors who have taken to time to care about more than a single external link. Read WP:CANVAS for an explanation as to why it is ineffective to do, and WP:EL to understand raw external link policy. Yes, there are hundreds of policies, which is why it is usually smart to engage with very experienced editors instead of being combative with them, particularly in a meritocracy like Wikipedia. Piling on 100 people is less effective than asking questions and providing a solid rationale in policy by a single person. Piling on buddies in different articles and discussion is so common here, we aren't shocked by it, nor are we influenced by it. So please stick to facts, keep it pithy, stop being combative. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:05, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

So where are we on Triad City Beat, Dennis? We're already listed on the Association of Alternative Newsmedia site — accepted for membership in July. — Brian Clarey — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.75.234.185 (talk) 19:06, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

www.greensboro101.com

I keep removing this link, well twice, and someone else has, because we aren't a depository of every business or website that is related to Greensboro. The IP that keeps adding it needs to read WP:BURDEN and WP:BRD. Adding it back without finding a consensus to do so on this talk page will be seen as spamming, and appropriate action will be taken. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 21:21, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Dennis Brown. That was the conversation above this one. He also left me a note on my talk page. My next message to him would have been about brd and burden, but after that last message, I felt, why bother? Onel5969 ^{TT me} 22:15, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Ah, thanks, I just jotted a quick note, but so far, three people disagree with him. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 22:23, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

No worries. My thought is, based on his comment on my talk page, is that he has something to do with the site, and is miffed that he can't use Wikipedia to promote it. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 22:47, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Please do not make this personal by trying to impugn people's motives. Let's stick to the facts. Which are these, the removal of Greensboro101.com from the list of local media on the Greensboro, NC page and subsequent "justifications" have been conducted capriciously with ignorance of facts, reckless misrepresentations, unfounded assumptions, misunderstanding of WP guidelines, bias and constantly shifting criteria. This is not my opinion, but fact, as I'll document now.

• Entry was first removed for not being "constructive," an arbitrary evaluation that ignores the significance of this entity both on its own and in comparison to other entities listed in the same section whose inclusions are no more or less constructive.
• Entry was removed again for not being "notable," in direct contradiction to the WP Guideline that the notable requirement applies to stand-alone entries and SPECIFICALLY EXEMPTS article content and list items from this requirement.
• Despite the "notable" requirement not applying, when I offered information about the history of Greensboro 101, Onel5969, described its media attention as "trival." This is ignorance. Greensboro 101's appearance in the Wall Street Journal was on a section front page in a story specifically about Greensboro 101.
• Onel5969 admits that the notable requirement was misapplied, but then suggests the "due weight" and independent citation guidelines justify removal, even though those are instructed to apply to point of view and are obviously not applied to the other entities in the Media list.
• Dennis Brown - 2¢ removed Greensboro 101 because "We aren't a depository of every business or website that is related to Greensboro." That's disingenuous reasoning. Nobody is trying to include Greensboro 101 just because it is a business or website related to Greensboro. It is an entity of a specific type for which there is a specific and fitting section on the Greensboro, NC page. Shoot, were we to apply that measure, any of the entities already in the media section could be removed because the are a business or website related to Greensboro. This is broken reasoning.

There a couple of ways to build consensus. I can issue a call to arms and try to round up an overwhelming force to overcome these three editors, or I can appeal to their sense of fair play, reason and common sense. So, to these editors: When your understanding has been demonstrated to be misinformed, when you have cited guidelines that don't apply or worse, contradict your judgements, when you find yourselves having to grasp for new justification when your originals have been rationally refuted, when you find yourself trying to marginalize a contributor by impugning his motives, it's time to change your mind. I invite you to do so. People should not have to expend this much time and effort to make such a small, albeit worthwhile, addition to Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.138.132 (talk) 14:53, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

To the suggestion we consult WP:BURDEN and WP:BRD, those are great resources. Thank you for suggesting them. From WP:BURDEN:

"Whether and how quickly material should be initially removed for not having an inline citation to a reliable source depends on the material and the overall state of the article. In some cases, editors may object if you remove material without giving them time to provide references; consider adding a citation needed tag as an interim step"

The initial addition of Greensboro 101 in the Media list was removed within one minute. There was no request for references, no question of veracity and no addition of "citation needed." That's not unexpected as there are no citations for the other entities listed in the Media section. If editors are objecting to inclusion of Greensboro 101 in the list of Media because of a lack of citation, please add "citation needed" instead of removing and help me out by specifying what you want to see verified by citation.

Regarding WP:BRD, I like it. I think the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle (BRD) would be useful for identifying objections. Thanks for suggesting this. I will revert to my original Status quo ante and invite the editors challenging it to read my recent comments on the talk page and to cite specific, fact-based objections that conform with WP guidelines and to refrain from speculation, arbitrary personal opinion or misrepresentations before reverting as doling so could be viewed as edit warring. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.138.132 (talk) 15:48, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Couple of things, first see my comment in the above discussion. I'm striking through part of my earlier comment, since it seems it was based on a false presumption. Second, that doesn't take away from any of the arguments regarding your attempted insertion. You have a bit of faulty logic in your assertion "we to apply that measure, any of the entities already in the media section could be removed because the are a business or website related to Greensboro. This is broken reasoning." That's exactly opposite of correct. Any uncited, non-notable piece of information can be challenged by any editor. Many city articles are rife with trivial crap. The exemption from notability guidelines for inclusion in an article is not a way to enable trivia to be included in Wikipedia. Rather, it is a way for information which may have local notability or importance, but not enough for a standalone article to be included in the article where it has that local significance. Adding insignificant information to an article doesn't improve it, in fact it makes the subject look smaller by saying, "see we have to dig up trivial stuff like this to fill out our page". And finally, please be aware of WP:CANVASSING, in case you feel the need to "issue a call to arms". You've posted on the talk page, interested editors will chime in. If, after a couple of weeks, the consensus is that it should be included, no one will think twice about its inclusion. And then, if it ever gets challenged in the future, you simply point back to the discussion on the talk page. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 16:02, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

• I've reverted it again. At this point, it seems pretty obvious you have a conflict of interest here. Now, I'm an administrator, but I edit this article, so can't do anything like block you, but if you keep adding it without a clear consensus (and so far, so no one agrees with you), then I will simply get that domain put on the spam blacklist here, so it will literally be impossible for anyone to add it, the software won't let them, and of course Google notes who we ban, so that isn't going to help you, trust me. You act like you understand the policies here, but you don't. I don't want to be a jerk about it, but I'm willing if it keeps spam off the site and stops people from being disruptive, like you are now. So, your choices are simple: keep adding it and get it blacklisted (and likely get blocked in the process), talk here and convince enough people that it should be included, or give up. I'm not going to play revert war on a link for your website anymore. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 17:02, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Onel5969, you keep moving the target. Now it is because of subjective "significance." Two questions: What WP Guideline are you applying to justify exclusion because of "insignificance" and, two, what familiarity do you have of the Greensboro, NC media landscape that elevates your assessment of significance above the multiple local media people above who have chimed in in favor of inclusion?

Dennis Brown, I followed your advice and resorted to the BRD process, but you are not abiding by it and making reversions without proper explanation or justification. You are not operating in good faith. Every concern you've expressed (and you keep changing them), I've responded to with facts, excerpts from the guidelines and polite logic. You, on the other hand, decline to answer questions and react with heavy-handed and unfounded rhetoric, finally resorting most recently to questioning motives, making threats and blackmail.

I'm not sure what knowledge you may have to evaluate the notability of the entities I'm adding -- you don't say (and, as noted, you are misapplying the notable criteria anyway), but several people with such knowledge have now weighed in and favor inclusion of Greensboro 101 and Triad City Beat in the list of local media. I am reverting again to include both and complying with the guidelines of BRD by way of my previous explanations and by also noting that the consensus now favors inclusion. Please do not remove the entities again without providing a valid and substantive reason -- not personal, please -- that comports with WP Guidelines or I will bring such action to the attention of an administrator and ask that they reign you in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.138.132 (talk) 20:23, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I have asked an administrator to review these edits and this discussion. Please refrain from edit warring until we have her guidance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.138.132 (talk) 21:54, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Don't you find it curious, Dennis Brown - that all these SPA editors show up on the talk page in the above discussion, after an IP editor discloses that he intends to canvas? Onel5969 ^{TT me} 20:03, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Curious? Not really, I've seen it a thousand times, editors that aren't familiar with Wikipedia thinking we are a bunch of bumpkins and they can just throw a bunch of new faces at an article and "overthrow" a real consensus. Happens all the time at AFD. They don't realize that global consensus overrides any talk page discussion, and WP:EL always applies. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 10:55, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

• That pretty much worked out like I expected, with the IP blocked. When you edit war against three people and won't talk before you put spam back, that is pretty much what happens. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:20, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

This whole thing is starting to seem really petty. I have been part of the media landscape in Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem for 15 years. I've been getting info from Greensboro101 for 10 of those years. It seems to me that Wikipedia's mission is to accurately reflect how people in the city get their information, and not these little pissing matches. — Brian Clarey — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.75.234.185 (talk) 19:08, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

"Local media censorship" section

I've just removed it for reasons explained in my edit summary. Graham87 13:48, 4 July 2020 (UTC)