Talk:Greatest Hits... So Far!!! (Pink album)

This page was proposed for deletion by an editor in the past.

On 16 November 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Greatest Hits... So Far!!!. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Tag

The bot added the tag when I have a redirect on the other page. Just a mistake. PinkFunhouse13 (talk) 22:17, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 14:23, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Greatest Hits... So Far! → Greatest Hits... So Far!!! —

Correct title as can be seen on album cover in article, as well as artist's official site, label's official site, Billboard, MTV News, Amazon.com, etc. Couldn't move it myself because the new title is on a blacklist or something? Yvesnimmo (talk) 05:01, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I was going to request this myself. Correct title. --12345abcxyz20082009 (talk) 19:59, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose MOS:TM, decorative punctuation. Though the three exclaimation version can be used as a redirect. 76.66.200.95 (talk) 02:17, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not decorative; decorative would be like Se7en or "TiK ToK" or P!nk. There are many articles with multiple exclamation points, including a band called !!!, their eponymous debut album, albums like !!!Fuck You!!! and Then Some and !!Destroy-Oh-Boy!!, and combinations of punctuation like albums ?!, Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!), Get Happy!!, songs "Woo Hah!! Got You All in Check" and "What's It Gonna Be?!", and the documentary ¿¡Revolución!?. There is even a GA: Super Punch-Out!!, one in a series of similarly named games. This is the proper name reported by the record label and multiple other reliable, verifiable sources, some of which are given above. Yvesnimmo (talk) 03:05, 7 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support. TBSfan1223 (talk) 07:07, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Track listing

As of now, only the tracklists of the Australian CD and the deluxe edition bonus DVD have been officially confirmed. Apart from the tracklist announced on pinkspage.com, which is specifically for the Australian edition, I have seen at least two different CD tracklists that appear to be official.--130.226.70.114 (talk) 15:54, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article name

Shouldn't the name of the article be "Greatest Hits... So Far!!!" and not "Greatest Hits... So Far!" ?? that's the way it is written on the album cover. MariAna_MiMi (Talk) 21:37, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The proposal is above. :) Yvesnimmo (talk) 21:46, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Most Girls

Why wasn't Most Girls included? It wasn't exactly a flop. Tooironic (talk) 22:32, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect Track Listing

Tracks 14 and 15: "Funhouse" and "I Don't Believe You" aren't on my edition of the CD i bought. Which version is this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.99.187.80 (talk) 10:30, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've the got the same thing. I updated the page to reflect this error.

Looks like my copy is the international version without Hearthbreak Down and my DVD copy is the american one.... WTH?!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.149.137.143 (talk) 01:18, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 01:35, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Greatest Hits... So Far!!! → Greatest Hits... So Far!!! (Pink album) – Predictably, as happens with all generic song/album titles, someone else released a similar product with name indistingishable to the common reader: Greatest Hits So Far. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:39, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support the stylisation is not sufficient to distinguish. Gregkaye ✍♪ 18:59, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. When someone else releases an album under the same title, we can move the article, but right now it's the only specific name of an album and there is no need for that. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 19:03, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User:Tomica. This is not only article with this title , please see dab page. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:42, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose like Tomica said, only article with this title. Too early for a move. Snuggums (talk / edits) 19:32, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User:SNUGGUMS. This is not only article with this title , please see dab page. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:42, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The only one with !'s, though. Snuggums (talk / edits) 01:44, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User:SNUGGUMS so how is the common reader meant to know that !!! = Pink, and no !!! = Zac Brown Band. This is just decoration on the album cover. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:48, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support You've got to go by the name over stylization. Also recommend moving the PIL album article since "the" is not much of a disambiguator. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 17:08, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support moving this and the PIL album per User:Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars. — AjaxSmack 02:40, 25 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per the nominator's rationale. ╠╣uw [talk] 09:44, 25 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 19 January 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus is clearly against moving this page at this time. (non-admin closure) Egsan Bacon (talk) 21:27, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

– This title contains elipsis before "So Far" and is then followed by THREE exclamation marks, whilst the Zac Brown Band album solely has elipsis at the end of the full title. No one in their right mind is going to type in three exclamation marks and expect to end up anywhere other than at the Pink album. Unreal7 (talk) 21:43, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose; I'm thinking that the names are similar enough that the parenthetical disambiguation is a good idea to avoid confusion. Not everyone is a big enough pink fan to know how many exclamation points the title has. InsertCleverPhraseHere ^{InsertTalkHere} 23:39, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose per ICPH above. MOS:TM playful punctuation differences should not be used. These should all redirect to Greatest Hits So Far, and "The Greatest Hits, So Far" should be moved to add parenthetical disambiguation as well. -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 05:57, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose totally anti-User. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:02, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I, like the great majority of readers, have never heard of these two albums, and should I ever be interested in one of them I will rely on sources to find, but would I count or even notice the number of exclamation marks? Would the exclamation marks be on the source? Wouldn't I, like everybody else, go to the ZB album first, even though I am looking for the Pink album? Let's get people to the article they want. I also note it's only three months since the RM that moved the article to this title and the result was quite convincing then--Richhoncho (talk) 11:00, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support. We distinguish some titles by capitalization differences alone, and rightfully so. These are two topics each with a similar but unique title. Since they are unique, no matter how similar, there is no justification for disambiguation. Whether you or anyone else has "heard of" these albums is irrelevant. These are the titles used in reliable sources; that's all that matters. It's not our fault that they are relatively obscure, nor is it our job to address this by adding descriptive information to the titles. --В²C ☎ 20:23, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose These are only unique based on stylization not on the title itself. A disambiguator is quite helpful in these cases. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 22:26, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Per WP:SMALLDETAILS policy, "small details are usually sufficient to distinguish topics". How is a disambiguator "helpful" when the two titles are unique? WP:DISAMBIGUATION is for disambiguating titles that are identical, not titles that are similar, even if the only distinction is stylization. --В²C ☎ 00:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - It also says this is for "when typographically near-identical expressions have distinct meanings". That doesn't apply here as these both fall under the same topic of music albums, thus not a distinct meaning. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 01:37, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    - Sorry, but I disagree with your interpretation. The bottom line is that the only reason for WP:DISAMBIGUATION is because WP articles must have unique titles for the technical reason that we use the titles as part of the URLs (which must be unique) to access the articles. If not for that technical reason, we would not need to disambiguate at all. The planet and element Mercury could both be titled Mercury, for example. But in this case we already have unique titles; therefore no reason whatsoever to disambiguate. --В²C ☎ 03:02, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note that WP:SMALLDETAILS "policy" (?) has been messed around by a WP:LOCALCONSENSUS of 2 or 3 editors to say the opposite of what most of Wikipedia actually does, which is not to include stylisms as the more normal titling behaviour noted by User:Richhoncho,User:Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars above. It probably needs an RFC to restore WP:SMALLDETAILS so the article corpus dog is wagging the guideline tail rather than vice versa, the current misleading state of WP:SMALLDETAILS is potentially destabilizing. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:46, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per ICPH and In Ictu Oculi. This move would not help the reader -- quite the opposite. Omnedon (talk) 15:22, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 3 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:00, 20 May 2019 (UTC) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:00, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Greatest Hits... So Far!!! (Pink album) → Greatest Hits... So Far!!! – There are two bands separated literally by one exclamation mark: Attack Attack! and Attack! Attack!. Unreal7 (talk) 18:11, 3 May 2019 (UTC)--Relisted. – Ammarpad (talk) 05:59, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Unreal7 We need a more legitimate rationale. The subject is Greatest Hits... So Far!!! (Pink album) and you are talking about Greatest Hits... So Far!!! (Pink album). Neel.arunabh (talk) 03:45, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support This seems obvious, as the exclamation marks alone fully disambiguate it, and the hatnote on the article links to the disambig page. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 14:02, 4 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, per clear consensus of previous RM Greatest Hits So Far has multiple entries. There's nothing to be ashamed of in (Pink album) on an album by Pink. Removing it only makes life difficult for readers. Why do that? In ictu oculi (talk) 18:43, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And if confusing readers and obscuring artist names is a legitimate objective then why isn't this a multimove to remove (Zac Brown Band album) from Greatest Hits So Far... (Zac Brown Band album). Surely if we're trying to send some Zac Brown Band fans to the Pink album we should return the favour and send some Pink fans to the Zac Brown Band album. If we're going to confuse readers, lets do it to all readers. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:45, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I do think that makes sense to remove the "(Zac Brown Band album)" from the Zac Brown page. Nikki Lee 1999 (talk) 08:46, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Do you enjoy putting words in other people's mouths, IIO? Unreal7 (talk) 08:16, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom, the punctuation is more than sufficient to disambiguate this topic, any parentical qualifier is completely redundant. PC78 (talk) 00:14, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per In ictu oculi and per "Oppose" arguments at the most recent such discussion, above (Requested move 19 January 2016). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 06:50, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. (And for the record, the difference between Attack Attack! and Attack! Attack! also seems insufficient for clarity.) ╠╣uw [talk] 11:24, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support, Greatest Hits So Far goes to page 1, Greatest Hits So Far... goes to page 2, Greatest Hits... So Far!!! goes to page 3, and The Greatest Hits, So Far goes to page 4. It is clear that these parentheses are merely decorative and against the principles of WP:DAB. Furthermore, in neither RM evidence has been given that the names are creating confusion and that parentheses are solving it despite the additional WP:SMALLDETAILS that are not interchangeables. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 16:55, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support It is the only album with this exact title. Nikki Lee 1999 (talk) 08:44, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 16 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 11:05, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

– These two articles are clearly in violation of WP:MISPLACED as of now, and they have been since the articles were moved to their current titles. This is also pretty clearly a WP:SMALLDETAILS case to me (the punctuation is very different), so I much prefer removing the disambiguation to redirecting the punctuated versions to the DAB page; hatnotes can handle that confusion fine. I feel less strong about the Zac Brown Band album, but the exclamation marks are definitely enough for the Pink album to be distinct, at least for me. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 19:22, 16 November 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. — Material Works 23:46, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support both per nom. Definitely SMALLDETAILS. estar8806 (talk) ★ 20:19, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per oppose votes in the previous two discussions — Talk:Greatest Hits... So Far!!! (Pink album)#Requested move 19 January 2016 and Talk:Greatest Hits... So Far!!! (Pink album)#Requested move 3 May 2019, above. WP:SMALLDETAILS notwithstanding, Wikipedia main title headers which differ from each other solely via accents, diacritics or punctuation marks represent insufficient disambiguation and are unhelpful to users. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, per the oppose votes above and in the previous two discussions. It'd be genuinely unhelpful to users to have to remember which "Greatest Hits So Far" article has which punctuation where. Quite frankly, it's too small to be a good case of WP:SMALLDETAILS. Paintspot Infez (talk) 01:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:SMALLDETAILS. These are both simple reversals of redirects. Greatest Hits So Far is already a dab page. Once you start adding ellipses and exclamation points to the titles, they're no longer ambiguous. Anyone taking the trouble to write those specific additional characters knows exactly what they want. Station1 (talk) 07:38, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm actually going to put myself at Neutral on Greatest Hits So Far... (Zac Brown Band album); the punctuation there is logical, and I would not be opposed to retargeting it to Greatest Hits So Far. The exclamation marks, like I said in the original nom, make the Pink album unambiguous in my view.

Also, if either or both of these moves don't pass, I will be redirecting the undisambiguated version to the DAB page because the reason it would exist would be because the titles are too ambiguous without disambiguation (hence me citing WP:MISPLACED). Skarmory (talk • contribs) 09:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't do that. That's something that should be left for the closer. Right now, there doesn't seem to be any consensus for doing that. Station1 (talk) 18:29, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It hasn't been discussed (so there hasn't been any discussion about whether it has consensus or not), and I probably should've put in my opening comment that my intent was to redirect to the DAB per MISPLACED if these moves did not pass. I will leave it to the closer (probably a good idea), but I don't see a policy based reason that suggests these undisambiguated titles should remain redirects to disambiguated titles. If the problem with the titles is that the punctuation isn't enough difference for a reader to disambiguate between them, they should be sent to the DAB page so they can find which one they were actually searching for. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 20:29, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:SMALLDETAILS. Hatnotes are the appropriate form of disambiguation here, not parenthetical disambiguation. Mdewman6 (talk) 00:42, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Albums has been notified of this discussion. — Material Works 23:47, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. This is a pretty weak difference to use for SMALLDETAILS, the placement of the ellipsis and trailing punctuation. Existing setup is fine. SnowFire (talk) 07:22, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per the comments from Roman Spinner, Paintspot, and SnowFire. ╠╣uw [talk] 14:43, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: This degree of punctuation detail is too hard to expect people to notice or pay attention to, and the same type of suggestion has been discussed before, and there is no noticeable change in the situation. Including the artist name in the title of articles about their work doesn't really seem undesirable. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:30, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support we already have a DAB at Greatest Hits So Far so users searching with the simple form get it anyway, anyone using the more complex would likely be looking for a specific one. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:19, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.