Talk:Grand Slam Single

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Why didn't he just run the bases later?

Why should there be a time limit to touch the bases, it's a home run damn it! What if a game or even a series or World Series would've been lost because of something like this? Or are you disqualified from further bases after moving not under your own power (in this case being lifted), in the same way that Dorando Pietri was disqualified for external power? Why can't they just put him down further away then? This rule is not fair. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagittarian Milky Way (talk • contribs) 22:14, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

By lifting him in the air, Zeile allowed Ventura to pass him on the base path, and regardless of whether it's a home run or any other hit, you can't pass another runner on the base paths. 68.81.180.171 (talk) 22:06, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Once the runner on third had touched home and Ventura had touched first, the game was effectively over and all that was left was bean-counting. It seems odd to apply the rules in this particular twilight zone. If some other runner had been tagged out (say after reaching the next base, so no force out) for the third out, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't negate the win. Yet, here we apply the "passing-the-runner" rule. I'd say that they should add a codicil to the rule that on an automatic homer that ends the game, all runners may be assumed to have scored legally. WHPratt (talk) 13:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Other instances of "grand slam singles"

Prior to 1920, when a home team player hit the ball out of the playing field with the game-ending winning run already on base (i.e., 9th inning or later), he only received credit for enough bases to score that runner rather than a home run (I remember reading that someone "tripled into the bleachers" in a game account). I'm pretty sure that in at least one of these cases, someone did so with the bases loaded and was only credited with a single. Retrosheet.org lists these reduced-homers, but doesn't state the base configuration, so some additional research would be in order. If found, those cases could be added here. WHPratt (talk) 14:38, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Instance Documented

I found another instance of a “grand slam single.” This could be used as an example for the last paragraph of “Other Instances ...”

Explanation: If a batter hits one out with the bases full to end a game, the hit must have been reduced to a single. I.e., it could only have been scored as a double or a triple if it brought in a runner from second or from first with no runner at third, hence no bases-loaded situation. Ergo, of the 44 “reduced non-homers,” we need only consider the 15 that were scored as singles. The “Game Ending Non-Homers list: https://www.retrosheet.org/ending.htm

In general, Retrosheet’s entries for 19th century games are usually lacking box scores, and those from 1901-1915 are usually lacking play-by-play information.

However, they do have play-by-play from the game of July 18, 1918, Detroit versus the New York Yankees at the Polo Grounds.

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1918/B07182NYA1918.htm

For the second game of a doubleheader, the bottom half of the tenth inning is detailed as follows (emphasis theirs). The score was 2-2.

YANKEES 10TH: Walters singled to left; Keating forced Walters; Gilhooley singled to left [Keating to second]; Caldwell singled to left [Keating to third, Gilhooley to second]; Baker singled [Keating scored, Gilhooley to third, Caldwell to second]; Baker hit ball into upper deck, but under rules of the day only gets credit for a single; 1 R, 4 H, 0 E, 3 LOB. Tigers 2, Yankees 3.

Thus, John Franklin “Home Run” Baker hit a game-ending grand slam by modern rules, but was only credited with a single because of the rules then in force.

The other 14 cases of a game-ending blow being reduced to a single may or may not involve three baserunners. These would have to be researched further from specific game accounts in the press. Even without complete play-by-play, the nature of the final hit might have been described in the coverage.

Actually, careful analysis of the box score can serve to rule out some of them as possible “grand-slam singles.” Example; consider the game of September 28, 1908, in which Cy Seymour had a “reduced” non-homer.
https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1908/B09280NY11908.htm

It seems obvious from the individual runs and RBIs and other numbers that, in the bottom of the ninth, Donlin tripled to tie the game. Barry pinch-ran for him and scored the winning run when Seymour singled over some fence or other. Someone else can try to come up with an alternate scenario that fts the given numbers, but if they can’t, then this definitely wasn’t a grand slam single.
WHPratt (talk) 17:52, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]