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A dubious sentence

"If he was still alive in SFRY during the late 1940s, probably he would have finished up in an internment camp, as other former IMRO activists of that time." The sentence is nothing more than a speculation. I tried adding the unreliable source template few days ago, but my change was reverted by an anonymous contributor (IP 46.238.25.84) with the very valid explanation: "Cornell University Press is the first academic publishing house in US, since 1869. Banac is a history professor since 1970 in the US." However, I was sure that no one who may consider himself a serious scientist would write that "probably Delchev would have finished up in an internment camp" (who knows - maybe he would have been shot, or would have renounced his earlier views), so I tried to find Banac's book. I was right: he says nothing of this sort, not only on p. 198, but throughout the whole book: the source refers only to the second part of the quoted sentence (if needed, I can post a preview of the page referred). The first part of the sentence is a parahrase based on a sentence from the first source ("да беше жив 1945 година, кога србокомунистите го направија државниот удар за останување на Македонија во Југославија, Делчев ќе беше еден од првите кои ќе завршеше во познатото Идризово" / "had he been alive in 1945, when the Serbocommunists made the coup that made possible for Macedonia to remain a part of SFRY, Delchev would have been one of the first people to have ended up in the famous Idrizovo"), a long and biased interview with Ljubco Georgievski, who is (and that is probably the most important thing here) not a historian. So - for now - I think that returning the unreliable source template is a necessity, but if there are no arguments in favour of the opposite, I propose the sentence for a deletion. --Виктор Јованоски (talk) 11:13, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

I am not sure such a sentence merits a place in an encyclopaedia. It does not sound anything more than a speculation. Although I also kinda think this would most probably have happened to him, this is no way near what an encyclopaedia should read like. --Laveol T 12:28, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
If the sentence is to remain, it should be attributed to the one who said it, going along the lines of "According to former Macedonian PM Ljubco Georgievski, Gotse Delchev would have been (...)". It might work that way, but still, I'm not sure this should stay in the article. Any thoughts?--Laveol T 12:32, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Despite former PM, Georgievski is also a founder of the VMRO–DPMNE, which party claims ideological descent from the old Delchev's VMRO. Also, it is indisputable, after the WWII many former IMRO-activists, were imprisoned, brought in communist concentration camps, or even directly killed. 46.238.25.84 (talk) 12:46, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
I do not dispute any of this, but still the sentence is no more than a speculation. --Laveol T 13:32, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Maybe: "According to the founder of the VMRO–DPMNE, Ljubco Georgievski, if Delchev was still alive in SFRY during the late 1940s, probably he would have finished up in an internment camp, as other former IMRO activists of that time." 46.238.25.84 (talk) 13:44, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
As can be easily deduced from what I have stated above, I agree with Laveol: I have nothing against people thinking this would have happened, nor against people stating it in essays, interviews, columns, putative historical analyses... However, the sentence does not belong in any serious historical book, and a fortiori in an encyclopedia: it is obviously not "indisputable" and what would an encyclopaedia be if it is written in anything but such sentences? Now, it is indisputable that other former IMRO members met an even crueler destinies, as well as that Ljupco Georgievski thought that Delchev's would have been no different. The first is important and should be given an even greater space in the IMRO article (in the appropriate section), but the letter one is not, for the simple fact that Ljupco Georgievski is not a historian. He was the founder of a political party which claims ideological connections with the Ilinden IMRO, but he also had a rift (which led to him forming a different political party) with the current leader of the very same IMRO (and the longest serving Macedonian Prime Minister) who claims, among many other things, that Macedonians are not Slavs, that they are descended from Alexander the Great and are related to the Hunzas, that foreign secret services drove yellow vans and attempted a coup against him two years ago... As far as history and encyclopaedias are concerned - both of them are non-entities. Which, unfortunately, is not true as far as the modern history of Macedonia is in question. Виктор Јованоски (talk) 14:42, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
OK, I agree with you. 46.238.25.84 (talk) 15:13, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
I deleted the sentence. Виктор Јованоски (talk) 18:23, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2020

Gotse Delchev From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to navigationJump to search For other uses, see Gotse Delchev (disambiguation). Georgi Nikolov Delchev Георги Николов Делчев Gotze.jpeg Portrait of Gotse Delchev, Sofia 1900. Born 4 February 1872 Kukush,[1] Salonica Vilayet, Ottoman Empire Died 4 May 1903 (aged 31) Banitsa, Salonica Vilayet, Ottoman Empire Nationality Bulgarian Organization Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Committees,[2] (later SMARO, IMARO, IMRO) Georgi Nikolov Delchev (Bulgarian/Macedonian: Георги/Ѓорѓи Николов Делчев, 4 February 1872 – 4 May 1903), known as Gotse Delchev or Goce Delčev (Гоце Делчев, originally spelled in older Bulgarian orthography Гоце Дѣлчевъ), was an important Bulgarian revolutionary figure (komitadji) in Ottoman-ruled Macedonia and Thrace at the turn of the 20th century.[3][4][5] He was the most prominent leader of what is known today as Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO), a paramilitary organization active in Ottoman territories in the Balkans, at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century.[6] Delchev was its representative in Sofia, the capital of Principality of Bulgaria.[7]

Born into a Bulgarian family in Kilkis,[8] then in the Salonica Vilayet of the Ottoman Empire, in his youth he was inspired by the ideals of earlier Bulgarian revolutionaries such as Vasil Levski and Hristo Botev,[9] who envisioned the creation of a Bulgarian republic of ethnic and religious equality, as part of an imagined Balkan Federation.[10] Delchev completed his secondary education in the Bulgarian Men's High School of Thessaloniki and entered the Military School of His Princely Highness in Sofia, but he was dismissed from there, because of his leftist political persuasions. Then he returned to Ottoman Macedonia as a Bulgarian teacher,[11] and immediately became an activist of the newly-found revolutionary movement in 1894.[12]

Although considering himself to be an inheritor of the Bulgarian revolutionary traditions, as a committed republican Delchev was disillusioned by the reality in the post-liberation Bulgarian monarchy.[13] Also by him, as by many Macedonian Bulgarians, originating from an area with mixed population,[14] the idea of being ‘Macedonian’ acquired the importance of a certain native loyalty, that constructed a specific spirit of "local patriotism"[15][16] and "multi-ethnic regionalism".[17][18] He maintained the slogan promoted by William Ewart Gladstone, "Macedonia for the Macedonians", including all different nationalities inhabiting the area.[19][20] In this way, his outlook included a wide range of such disparate ideas as Bulgarian patriotism, Macedonian regionalism, anti-nationalism and incipient socialism.[21]

As a result, his political agenda became the establishment through revolution of an autonomous Macedono-Adrianople supranational state into the framework of the Ottoman Empire,[22] as a prelude to its incorporation within a future Balkan Federation.[23] He revised the Organization's statute, where the membership was restricted only for Bulgarians,[24] emphasizing the importance of cooperation among all ethnic groups in the territories concerned in order to obtain political autonomy.[25] Delchev also launched the establishment of a secret revolutionary network, that would prepare the population for an armed uprising against the Ottoman rule.[26] However, he opposed the IMRO Central Committee’s plan for a mass uprising in the summer of 1903, favoring terrorist and guerilla tactics. Nevertheless, he was killed by an Ottoman unit in May. Thus the liberation movement lost its most important organizer, at the eve of the Ilinden–Preobrazhenie Uprising.

Today Gotse Delchev is considered as a national hero in Bulgaria,[27] as well as in North Macedonia, where it is claimed that he was among the founders of the Macedonian national movement.[28] Macedonian historians insist that the historical myth of Delechev there is so significant, that it is more important then all the historical artifacts, researches and documents.[29] Despite such controversial[30][31] Macedonian historical interpretations,[32][33] Delchev had Bulgarian national identity[34][35] and viewed his compatriots as Bulgarians.[36] Some modern Macedonian leading historians and politicians have recognized grudgingly[37][38] or even openly this fact.[39] The designation Macedonian according to the then used ethnic terminology included local Greeks, Bulgarians, Turks, Vlachs, Albanians, Serbs, Jews and so on,[40][41] and when applied to the local Slavs, it meant a regional Bulgarian identity.[42] Opposite to the Macedonian claims, at that time even some Bulgarian IMRO revolutionaries, natives from Bulgaria, espoused to some extent Macedonian identity.[43] However, contrary to Bulgarian assertions, his autonomist ideas of a separate Macedonian (and Adrianopole) political entity, have stimulated the subsequent development of Macedonian nationalism.[44] Nevertheless, some researchers doubt, that behind the IMRO idea of autonomy was hidden a reserve plan for eventual incorporation into Bulgaria,[45][46][47] even for Delchev himself.[48]

The most detailed biography of Delchev in English is written by Mercia MacDermott: "Freedom or Death: The Life of Gotse Delchev".[49]


Contents 1 Biography 1.1 Early life 1.2 Teacher and revolutionist 1.3 Revolutionary activity as part of the leadership of the Organization 1.4 Death and aftermath 2 Controversy 2.1 During the Cold war 2.2 After the Fall of communism 3 Delchev's views 4 Legacy 5 See also 6 Memorials 7 Notes 8 References 9 External links Biography

Delchev (right) and his former classmate from Kilkis, Imov as officer cadets in Sofia. Early life He was born in a large family on 4 February 1872 (23 January according to the Julian calendar) in Kilkis, then in the Ottoman Empire (today in Greece). By the mid-19th century Kilkis was populated predominantly with Macedonian Bulgarians[50][51][52][53] and became one of the centres of the Bulgarian National Revival.[54][55] During the 1860s and 1870s it was under the jurisdiction of the Bulgarian Uniat Church,[56][57] but after 1884, most of its population gradually joined the Bulgarian Exarchate.[58][59] As a student Delchev began first to study in the Bulgarian Uniate's primary school and then in the Bulgarian Exarchate's junior high school.[60] He also read widely in the town's chitalishte, where he was impressed with revolutionary books, and especially Delchev was imbued with thoughts of the liberation of Bulgaria.[61] In 1888 his family sent him to the Bulgarian Men's High School of Thessaloniki, where he organized and led a secret revolutionary brotherhood.[62] Delchev also distributed revolutionary literature, which he acquired from the school’s graduates who studied in Bulgaria. Graduation from a High school was faced with few career prospects and Delchev decided to follow the path of his former school-mate Boris Sarafov, entering the military school in Sofia in 1891. He at first encountered the newly independent Bulgaria full of idealism and dedication, but he later became disappointed with the commercialized life of the society and with the authoritarian politics of the prime minister Stefan Stambolov, accused of being a dictator.[63]


Letter from Delchev, where he declares himself and his compatriots as Bulgarians.[64] Gotsе spent his leaves in the company of emigrants from Macedonia. Most of them belonged to the Young Macedonian Literary Society. One of his friends was Vasil Glavinov, a leader of the Macedonian-Adrianople faction of the Bulgarian Social Democratic Workers Party. Through Glavinov and his comrades, he came into contact with a different people, who offered a new forms of social struggle. In June 1892, Delchev and the journalist Kosta Shahov, a chairman of the Young Macedonian Literary Society, met in Sofia with the bookseller from Thessaloniki, Ivan Hadzhinikolov. Hadzhinikolov disclosed on this meeting his plans to create a revolutionary organization in Ottoman Macedonia. They discussed together its basic principles and agreed fully on all scores. Delchev explained, he has no intention of remaining an officer and promised after graduating from the Military School, he will return to Macedonia to join the organization.[65] In September 1894, only a month before graduation, he was expelled because his political activity as a member of an illegal socialist circle.[66] He was given a possibility to enter the Army again through re-applying for a commission, but he refused. Afterwards he returned to European Turkey to work there as a teacher, hoping to organize a national liberation movement through the Bulgarian Exarchate's educational net.

Teacher and revolutionist

The diploma of Delchev from his graduation from the Military school in Sofia. [67]

Diploma from the Bulgarian Exarchate's school in Štip, signed by Delchev as a teacher. Meanwhile, in Ottoman Thessaloniki a revolutionary organization was founded in 1893, by a small band of anti-Ottoman Macedono-Bulgarian revolutionaries, including Hadzhinikolov. At this time the name of the organization was Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Committees (BMARC), in 1902 changed to Secret Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Organization (SMARO).[68] It was decided at a meeting in Resen in August 1894 to preferably recruit teachers from the Bulgarian schools as committee members.[69] In the autumn of 1894 Delchev became teacher in an Exarchate school in Štip, where he met another teacher: Dame Gruev, who was also a leader of the newly established local committee of BMARC.[70] As a result of the close friendship between the two, Delchev joined the organization immediately, and gradually became one of its main leaders. After this, both Gruev and Delchev worked together in Štip and its environs. At the same time, the Organization developed quickly and had managed to begin establishing a network of local organizations across Macedonia and the Adrianople Vilayet, usually centered around the schools of the Bulgarian Exarchate.[71] The expansion of the BMARC at the time was considerable, particularly after Gruev settled in Thessaloniki during the years 1895–1897, in the quality of a Bulgarian school inspector. Under his direction, Delchev travelled during the vacations throughout Macedonia and established and organized committees in villages and cities. Delchev also established contacts with some of the leaders of the Supreme Macedonian-Adrianople Committee (SMAC). Its official declaration was a struggle for autonomy of Macedonia and Thrace.[72] However, as a rule, most of SMAC's leaders were officers with stronger connections with the governments, waging terrorist struggle against the Ottomans in the hope of provoking a war and thus Bulgarian annexation of both areas. He arrived illegally in Bulgaria's capital and tried to get support from the SMAC's leadership. Delchev had a number of meetings with Danail Nikolaev, Yosif Kovachev, Toma Karayovov, Andrey Lyapchev and others, but he was often frustrated of their views. As a whole, Delchev had a negative attitude towards their activities. After spending the next school year (1895/1896) as a teacher in the town of Bansko, in May 1896 he was arrested by the Ottoman authorities as person suspected in revolutianary activity and spent about a month in jail. Later Delchev participated in the Thessaloniki Congress of BMARC in the Summer. Afterwards, Delchev gave his resignation as teacher and, in the Autumn of 1896, he moved back to Bulgaria, where he, together with Gyorche Petrov, served as a foreign representatives of the organization in Sofia.[73] At that time the organization was largely dependent on the Bulgarian state and army assistance, that was mediated by the foreign representatives.

Revolutionary activity as part of the leadership of the Organization

Sultana Delcheva – Gotse's mother

Delchev's father – Nikola Delchev's involvement in BMARC was an important moment in the history of the Macedonian-Adrianople liberation movement.[74] The years between the end of 1896, when he left the Exarchate's educational system and 1903 when he died, represented the final and most effective revolutionary phase of his short life. In the period 1897–1902 he was a representative of the Foreign Committee of the BMARC in Sofia. Again in Sofia, negotiating with suspicious politicians and arms merchants, Delchev saw more of the unpleasant face of the Principality, and became even more disillusioned with its political system. In 1897 he, along with Gyorche Petrov, wrote the new organization's statute, which divided Macedonia and Adrianople areas into seven regions, each with a regional structure and secret police, following the Internal Revolutionary Organization's example. Below the regional committees were districts.[75] The Central committee was placed in Thessaloniki. In 1898 Delchev decided to be created a permanent acting armed bands (chetas) in every district. From 1902 till his death he was the leader of the chetas, i.e. the military institute of the Organization because, he had considerable knowledge in the area of military skills.[76] Delchev ensured the functioning of the underground border crossings of the organization and the arms depots added to them, alongside the then Bulgarian-Ottoman border.

His correspondence with other BMARC/SMARO members covers extensive data on supplies, transport and storage of weapons and ammunition in Macedonia. Delchev envisioned independent production of weapons, and traveled in 1897 to Odessa, where he met with Armenian revolutionaries Stepan Zorian and Christapor Mikaelian to exchange terrorist skills and especially bomb-making.[77] That resulted in the establishment of a bomb manufacturing plant in the village of Sabler near Kyustendil in Bulgaria. The bombs were later smuggled across the Ottoman border into Macedonia.[78] Gotse Delchev was the first to organize and lead a band into Macedonia with the purpose of robbing or kidnapping rich Turks. His experiences demonstrate the weaknesses and difficulties which the Organization faced in its early years.[79] Later he was one of the organizers of the Miss Stone Affair. He made two short visits to the Adrianople area of Thrace in 1896 and 1898.[80] In the winter of 1900 he resided for a while in Burgas, where Delchev organized another bomb manufacturing plant, which dynamite was used later by the Thessaloniki bombings.[81] In 1900 he inspected also the BMARC's detachments in Eastern Thrace again, aiming better coordination between Macedonian and Thracian revolutionary committees. After the assassination in July of the Romanian newspaper editor Ștefan Mihăileanu, who had published unflattering remarks about the Macedonian affairs, Bulgaria and Romania were brought to the brink of war. At that time Delchev was preparing to organize a detachment which, in a possible war to support the Bulgarian army by its actions in Northern Dobruja, where compact Bulgarian population was available.[82][83] Since the Autumn of 1901 till the early Spring of 1902, he made an important inspection in Macedonia, touring all revolutionary districts there. He led also the congress of the Adrianople revolutionary district held in Plovdiv in April 1902. Afterwards Delchev inspected the BMARC's structures in the Central Rhodopes. The inclusion of the rural areas into the organizational districts contributed to the expansion of the organization and the increase in its membership, while providing the essential prerequisites for the formation of the military power of the organization, at the same time having Delchev as its military advisor (inspector) and chief of all internal revolutionary bands.[84]

After 1897 there was a rapid growth of secret Officer's brotherhoods, whose members by 1900 numbered about a thousand.[85] Much of the Brotherhoods' activists were involved in the revolutionary activity of the BMARC.[86] Among the main supporters of their activities was Gotse Delchev.[87] Delchev aimed also better coordination between BMARC and the Supreme Macedonian-Adrianople Committee. For a short time in the late 1890s lieutenant Boris Sarafov, who was former school-mate of Delchev became its leader. At that period the foreign representatives Delchev and Petrov became by rights members of the leadership of the Supreme Committee and so BMARC even managed to gain de facto control of the SMAC.[88] Nevertheless, it soon split into two factions: one loyal to the BMARC and one led by some officers close to the Bulgarian prince. Delchev opposed this officers' insistent attempts to gain control over the activity of BMARC.[89] Sometimes SMAC even clashed militarily with local SMARO bands as in the autumn of 1902. Then the Supreme Macedonian-Adrianople Committee organized a failed uprising in Pirin Macedonia (Gorna Dzhumaya), which merely served to provoke Ottoman repressions and hampered the work of the underground network of SMARO.

The primary question regarding the timing of the uprising in Macedonia and Thrace implicated an apparent discordance not only among the SMAC and the SMARO, but also among the SMARO's leadership. At the Thessaloniki Congress of January 1903, where Delchev did not participate, an early uprising was debated and it was decided to stage one in the Spring of 1903. This led to fierce debates among the representatives at the Sofia SMARO's Conference in March 1903. By that time two strong tendencies had crystallized within the SMARO. The right-wing majority was convinced that if the Organization would unleash a general uprising, Bulgaria would be provoked to declare war of the Ottomans and after the subsequent intervention of the Great Powers the Empire would collapse.[90]

The left-wing faction led by Delchev, on the other hand, warned against the risks of such unrealistic plans, opposing the uprising as inappropriate as tactics and premature by time.[91] Deltchev, who was under the influence of the leading Bulgarian anarchists as Mihail Gerdzhikov and Varban Kilifarski personally supported the tactics of terrorist attacks as the Thessaloniki bombings of 1903.[92] Finally, he had no choice but agree to that course of action at least managing to delay its start from May to August. Delchev also convinced the SMARO leadership to transform its idea of a mass rising involving the civil population into a rising based on guerrilla warfare. Towards the end of March 1903 Gotse with his detachment destroyed the railway bridge over the Angista river, aiming to test the new guerrilla tactics. Following that he set out for Thessaloniki to meet with Dame Gruev after his release from prison in March 1903. Dame Gruev met with Delchev in the late April and they discussed the decision of starting the uprising. Afterwards they negotiated with some of the Thessaloniki bombers to ask them to give up the attacks as dangerous to the liberation movement, or at least to wait for the impending uprising.[93] Subsequently, Delchev met also with Ivan Garvanov, who was at that time the leader of the SMARO.[94] After this meetings Delchev headed for Mount Ali Botush where he was expected to meet with representatives from the Serres Revolutionary District detachments and to check their military preparation. But he never arrived.

Death and aftermath

Telegram by the Ottoman authorities to their Embassy in Sofia informing, Delchev, one of the leaders of the Bulgarian Committees, was killed.

The restored grave-place of Delchev near Banitsa during World War II Bulgarian annexation of Northern Greece.

The ruins of Kilkis after the Second Balkan War.

The first biographical book about Delchev, issued in 1904 by his friend, the Bulgarian author and IMRO-revolutionary Peyo Yavorov.

Bulgarian postcard (1904) representing Delchev and an IMARO cheta. The inscription above reads: "The immortal Delchev." Meanwhile, on 28 April, members of the Gemidzii circle started terrorist attacks in Thessaloniki. As a consequence martial law was declared in the city and many Turkish soldiers and "bashibozouks" were concentrated in the Salonica Vilayet. This led eventually to the tracking of Delchev's cheta and his subsequent death.[95] He died on 4 May 1903, in a skirmish with the Turkish police near the village of Banitsa, probably after betrayal by local villagers, as rumours asserted, while preparing the Ilinden-Preobrazhenie Uprising.[96] After being identified by the local authorities in Serres, the bodies of Delchev and his comrade, Dimitar Gushtanov, were buried in a common grave in Banitsa. Soon afterwards SMARO, aided by SMAC organized the uprising against the Ottomans, which after initial successes, was crushed with much loss of life.[97] Two of his brothers, Mitso Delchev and Milan Delchev were also killed fighting against the Ottomans as militants in the SMARO chetas of the Bulgarian voivodas Hristo Chernopeev and Krstjo Asenov in 1901 and 1903, respectively. In 1914, by a royal decree of Tsar Ferdinand I, a pension for life was granted to their father Nikola Delchev, because of the contribution of his sons to the freedom of Macedonia.[98] During the Second Balkan War of 1913, Kilkis, which had been annexed by Bulgaria in the First Balkan War, was taken by the Greeks. Virtually all of its pre-war 7,000 Bulgarian inhabitants, including Delchev's family, were expelled to Bulgaria by the Greek Army.[99] The same happened to the population of Banitsa, the village where Delchev was buried.[100] During World War I, when Bulgaria was temporarily in control of the area, Delchev's remains were transferred to Xanthi, then in Bulgaria. After Western Thrace was ceded to Greece in 1919, the relic was brought to Plovdiv and in 1923 to Sofia, where it rested until after World War II.[101] During World War II, the area was taken by the Bulgarians again and Delchev's grave near Banitsa was restored.[102] In May 1943, on the occasion of the 40-th anniversary of his death, a memorial plaque was set in Banitsa, in the presence of his sisters and other public figures.[103][104] Until then Delchev was considered one of the greatest Bulgarians from Macedonia.[105]

Controversy See also: Historiography in North Macedonia

Memorial poster of IMARO issued after the Young Turk Revolution. The group presents Delchev and his already dead comrades, he personally had invited in the organisation: Toma Davidov, Mihail Apostolov, Petar Sokolov and Slavi Merdzhanov. During the Cold war In 1934 the Comintern gave its support to the idea that the Macedonian Slavs constituted a separate nation.[106] Prior to the Second World War, this view on the Macedonian issue had been of little practical importance. However, during the War these ideas were supported by the pro-Yugoslav Macedonian communist partisans, who strengthened their positions in 1943, referring to the ideals of Gotse Delchev. After the Red Army entered the Balkans in the late 1944, new communist regimes came into power in Bulgaria and Yugoslavia. In this way their policy on the Macedonian Question was committed to the Comintern policy of supporting the development of a distinct ethnic Macedonian consciousness.[107][108] The region of Macedonia was proclaimed as the connecting link for the establishment of a future Balkan Communist Federation.[109] The newly established Yugoslav People's Republic of Macedonia, was characterized as natural result of Delchev's aspirations for autonomous Macedonia.[110]

However, initially he was proclaimed by its Communist leader Lazar Koliševski as: "...one Bulgarian of no significance for the liberation struggles...".[111] But on 7 October 1946, under pressure from Moscow,[112] as part of the policy to foster the development of Macedonian national consciousness, Delchev's remains were transported to Skopje.[113] On the occasion of sending the remains, the regent and a member of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences and Arts, Todor Pavlov presented a speech on a solemn assembly held in the National Theater in Sofia.[114] On 10 October, the bones were enshrined in a marble sarcophagus in the yard of the church "Sveti Spas", where they have remained since.[115] At the time of the Tito–Stalin split in 1948, Bulgaria broke its relationship with Yugoslavia because "nationalist elements" had "managed to reach a dominant position in the leadership" of the CPY. The then Macedonian communist elite discussed the idea to scrap the name of Gotse Delchev from the anthem of the country, as he was suspected again of being Bulgarophile element, but this idea was finally abandoned.[116] Afterwards Bulgaria gradually shifted to its previous view, that Macedonian Slavs are in fact Bulgarians.[117] Yugoslav authorities, after realizing that the Balkan collective memory had already accepted as Bulgarians the heroes of the Macedonian revolutionary movement, exerted efforts to claim Delchev for the Macedonian national cause.[118] They started measures that would overcome the pro-Bulgarian feeling among parts of its population.[119] The new Communist authorities persecuted systematically and exterminated the right-wing nationalists with the charges of "great-Bulgarian chauvinism".[120] The next task was peresecution of older left-wing politicians, who were at some degree pro-Bulgarian oriented. They were purged from their positions, arrested and imprisoned.[121]

As a consequence, Bulgarophobia increased in Vardar Macedonia to the level of state ideology.[122] Aiming to enforce the belief Delchev was an ethnic Macedonian, all documents written by him in standard Bulgarian were translated into standardized in 1945 Macedonian, and presented as originals.[123] The new rendition of history reappraised the 1903 Ilinden Uprising as an anti-Bulgarian revolt.[124] The past was systematically falsified to conceal the truth, that most of the well-known Macedonians had felt themselves to be Bulgarians.[125] As result, Delchev was declared an ethnic Macedonian hero, and Macedonian school textbooks began even to hint at Bulgarian complicity in his death.[126] In the People's Republic of Bulgaria, the situation was more complex, and before 1960 Delchev was given mostly regional recognition in Pirin Macedonia. Afterwards, orders from the highest political level were given to reincorporate the Macedonian revolutionary movement as part of the Bulgarian historiography, and to prove the Bulgarian credentials of its historical leaders. SInce 1960, there have been long-going unproductive debates between the ruling Communist parties in Bulgaria and the Yugoslavia about the ethnic affiliation of Delchev. Delchev was described in SR Macedonia not only as an anti-Ottoman freedom fighter, but also as a hero, who had opposed the aggressive aspirations of the pro-Bulgarian factions in the liberation movement.[127] The claims on Delchev's Bulgarian self-identification, thus were portrayed as recent Bulgarian chauvinist attitude of long provenance.[128] Nonetheless, the Bulgarian side made in 1978 for the first time the proposal that some historical personalities (e.g. Gotse Delchev) could be regarded as belonging to the shared historical heritage of the two peoples, but that proposal did not appeal to the Yugoslavs.[129]

After the Fall of communism See also: Bulgaria–North Macedonia relations Following the breakup of Yugoslavia and the fall of Communism, some new attempts were made from Bulgarian officials for joint celebration with the newly established Republic of Macedonia, of the common IMRO heroes, e.g. Delchev, but they all were rejected as politically unacceptable, and as threatening the Macedonian national identity.[130][131][132]

Recently the Macedonian political elite has been interested in a debate about the national historical narrative with Bulgaria in relation with its frozen candidatures for joining the European Union and NATO membership. On 2 August 2017, the Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Borisov and his Macedonian colleague Zoran Zaev placed wreaths at the grave of Gotse Delchev on the occasion of the 114th anniversary of the Ilinden–Preobrazhenie Uprising, after the previous day, both have signed a treaty for friendship and cooperation between the neighboring states.[133] On its ground a joint commission on historical issues was formed in 2018. This intergovernmental commission is a forum where controversial historical issues are raised, to resolve the problematic readings. However, the commission has made a little progress for one year, due to a Macedonian opposition and especially in the case of Delchev. The Bulgarian part of the commission pointed to Delchev’s own writings, where he declared himself as a Bulgarian, and clarified the fact that Delchev had Bulgarian identity, doesn't mean that North Macedonia has no right to honour him as its own national hero, and both countries may celebrate him as a common historical figure. However the historians from Macedonian side maintained, that if they "surrender" Gotse, the Macedonian national identity would go bust.[134] Practically since its creation, the Macedonian historiography held as its central principle, that Macedonian history is distinctively different from that of Bulgaria and its primary goal was to build a separate Macedonian consciousness, based on "anti-Bulgarian" basis, and to sever any ties with Bulgarian people.[135] In fact, because in many documents from the 19th century the Macedonian Slavs were referred to as "Bulgarian", Macedonian scientists argue that they were "Macedonian", regardless of what is written in the records.[136] Macedonian member from the joint historical commission, has even stated that if Delchev would be recognized as Bulgarian, then his memory will not make sense to be honored there.[137] Another Macedonian member from the joint commission has openly claimed in a TV-interview, that there aren't any proves, that Delchev ever identified as Bulgarian.[138]

As result on 9 June 2019 Bulgaria’s Defence Minister, Krasimir Karakachanov, warned that the work of the joint history commission had “stalled” over the issue of Gotse Delchev. Subsequently, Bulgarian Foreign Minister Ekaterina Zaharieva warned North Macedonia, Bulgaria will withdraw from the joint commission, unless enough progress is made on the issue of Delchev’s historical legacy. Finally, the PM Borisov declared on 20 June 2019 that anti-Bulgarian rhetoric and appropriation of Bulgaria’s history as its own from North Macedonia “must stop”.[139] On the same day North Macedonia's President Stevo Pendarovski warned about the tensions between the two countries over their history, and about possible Bulgarian block of North Macedonia's candidature in EU.[140] The PM Zoran Zaev replied that both countries need to mature together. Foreign Minister of North Macedonia, Nikola Dimitrov, said he expects an understanding will be reached between both countries on historical issues.[141] Thus Pendarovski publicly affirmed, that undoubtedly Delchev self-identified as a Bulgarian, compromising that: he supported the idea of an independent Macedonian state.[142] In fact, the idea about Independent Macedonia was a subsequent project from the interwar period.[143] Bulgarian politicians reacted positively to Pendarovski’s statement, insisting however, that this only act is not enough and the bilateral commission must confirm the Bulgarian identity of many historical figures from 19th and first half of the 20th century.[144] According to the President Rumen Radev, Bulgaria will support North Macedonia's candidature in the EU, but it is important Skopje to end the embezzlement of Bulgarian history. The Foreign Minister Zaharieva added, that Delchev is a common hero, part of Bulgarian and Macedonian history. The fact, he was a Bulgarian, who struggled for the autonomy for Macedonia and Adrianople regions, must unite both countries, not divide them. Afterwards PM Zaev has recognized that in the past Macedonia presented parts from the history of its Balkan neighbors as its own, but this process has been suspended.[145]

Surprisingly, in late September 2019, the President Pendarovski gave a new interview in which he gave up his words about Delchev. In it he implied that Delcev was pressured to falsely declare himself as a Bulgarian, while actually having an ethnic Macedonian identity. Pendarovski compared Delcev with present-day thousends of Macedonians who get Bulgarian citizenship, which allow them access to the EU, after they declare themselves as Bulgarians by origin. "I was felt sick when I saw the video", said Bulgarian MEP Andrey Kovatchev, who praised Pendarvski’s former claims.[146] Bulgaria's reaction was not delayed. Its IMRO-BNM Deputy PM — Karakachanov, announced that Bulgaria must not to back the EU accession of the former Yugoslav republic: “until all falsifications of history have been cleared up”.[147] As result in the early October, Bulgaria has set a lot of tough terms for North Macedonia’s EU progress. The Bulgarian government accepted an ultimate “Framework Position”, where has warned that Bulgaria will not allow the EU integration of North Macedonia to be accompanied by European legitimization of an anti-Bulgarian ideology, sponsored by Skopje authorities. In the list are more than 20 demands and a timetable to fulfill them, during the process of North Macedonia's accession negotiations. Among others, Bulgaria insists on the recognition of the Bulgarian character of the IMRO itself, the Ilinden uprising, all the Macedonian revolutionaries from that time, including Delchev, etc. It states that the rewriting of the history of part of the Bulgarian people after 1944 was one of the pillars of the bulgarophobic agenda of then Yugoslav communism. Bulgarian National Assembly voted on 10 October and approved this “Framework Position” put forward by the government on the EU accession of North Macedonia.[148]

Meanwhile, in Skopje are growing concerns, that the negotiations with Bulgaria over the "common history", may lead to rise of extreme nationalism, political crisis, and even internal clashes.

Delchev's views

Excerpt from the statute of BMARC, whose co-author was G. Delchev.[149]

Excerpt from the statute of BMARC, with corrections made by hand, personally by Gotse Delchev with intention to work out the new statute of the SMARO.

Excerpt from the statute of SMARO, whose author was G. Delchev.[150] The international, cosmopolitan views of Delchev could be summarized in his proverbial sentence: "I understand the world solely as a field for cultural competition among the peoples".[151] In the late 19th century the anarchists and socialists from Bulgaria linked their struggle closely with the revolutionary movements in Macedonia and Thrace.[152] Thus, as a young cadet in Sofia Delchev became a member of a left circle, where he was strongly influenced by the modern than Marxist and Bakunin's ideas.[153] His views were formed also under the influence of the ideas of earlier anti-Ottoman fighters as Levski, Botev, and Stoyanov, who were among the founders of the Bulgarian Internal Revolutionary Organization, the Bulgarian Revolutionary Central Committee and the Bulgarian Secret Central Revolutionary Committee, respectively.[154] Later he participated in the Internal organization's struggle and as well educated leader, became one of its theoreticians and co-author of the BMARC's statute from 1896.[155] Developing his ideas further in 1902 he took the step, together with other left functionaries, of changing its nationalistic character, which determined that members of the organization can be only Bulgarians. The new supra-nationalistic statute renamed it to Secret Macedono-Adrianopolitan Revolutionary Organization (SMARO),[156] which was to be an insurgent organization, open to all Macedonians and Thracians regardless of nationality, who wished to participate in the movement for their autonomy.[157] This scenario was partially facilitated by the Treaty of Berlin (1878), according to which Macedonia and Adrianople areas were given back from Bulgaria to the Ottomans, but especially by its unrealized 23rd. article, which promised future autonomy for unspecified territories in European Turkey, settled with Christian population.[158] In general, an autonomous status was presumed to imply a special kind of constitution of the region, a reorganization of gendarmerie, broader representation of the local Christian population in it as well as in all the administration, similarly to what happened in the short-lived Eastern Rumelia. However, there was not a clear political agenda behind IMRO's idea about autonomy and its final outcome, after the expected dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.[159] Delcev, like other left-wing activists, vaguely determined the bonds in the future common Macedonian-Adrianople autonomous region on the one hand,[160] and on the other between it, the Principality of Bulgaria, and de facto annexed Eastern Rumelia.[161] Even the possibility that Bulgaria could be absorbed into a future autonomous Macedonia, rather than the reverse, was discussed.[162] It is claimed that the personal view of the convinced republican Delchev,[163] was much more likely to see inclusion in a future Balkan Confederative Republic,[164][165] or eventually an incorporation into Bulgaria.[166][167][168] Both ideas were probably influenced by the views of the founders of the organization.[169] The ideas of a separate Macedonian nation and language were as yet promoted only by small circles of intellectuals in Delchev's time,[170] and failed to gain wide popular support.[171] As a whole the idea of autonomy was strictly political and did not imply a secession from Bulgarian ethnicity.[172] In fact, for militants such as Delchev and other leftists, that participated in the national movement retaining a political outlook, national liberation meant "radical political liberation through shaking off the social shackles".[173] There aren't any indications suggesting his doubt about the Bulgarian ethnic character of the Macedonian Slavs at that time.[174] Delchev also used the Bulgarian standard language, and he was not in any way interested in the creation of separate Macedonian language.[175] The Bulgarian ethnic self-identification of Delchev has been recognized as from leading international researchers of the Macedonian Question,[176] as well as from part of the Macedonian historical scholarship and political elite, although reluctantly.[177][178][179][180] However, despite his Bulgarian loyalty, he was against any chauvinistic propaganda and nationalism.[181] According to him, no outside force could or would help the Organization and it ought to rely only upon itself and only upon its own will and strength.[182] He thought that any intervention by Bulgaria would provoke intervention by the neighboring states as well, and could result in Macedonia and Thrace being torn apart. That is why the peoples of these two regions had to win their own freedom, within the frontiers of an autonomous Macedonian-Adrianople state.[183]

Despite the efforts of the post-1945 Macedonian historiography to represent Delchev as a Macedonian separatist rather than a Bulgarian nationalist, Delchev himself has stated: "...We are Bulgarians and all suffer from one common disease [e.g., the Ottoman rule]" and "Our task is not to shed the blood of Bulgarians, of those who belong to the same people that we serve".[184]

Legacy

Commemorative medal of Delchev issued in 1904 in Bulgaria, designed by the painter Dimitar Diolev. [185] Delchev is today regarded both in Bulgaria and in North Macedonia as an important national hero, and both nations see him as part of their own national history.[186] His memory is honoured especially in the Bulgarian part of Macedonia and among the descendants of Bulgarian refugees from other parts of the region, where he is regarded as the most important revolutionary from the second generation of freedom fighters.[187] His name appears also in the national anthem of North Macedonia: "Denes nad Makedonija". There are two towns named in his honour: Gotse Delchev in Bulgaria and Delčevo in North Macedonia. There are also two peaks named after Delchev: Gotsev Vrah, the summit of Slavyanka Mountain, and Delchev Vrah or Delchev Peak on Livingston Island, South Shetland Islands in Antarctica, which was named after him by the scientists from the Bulgarian Antarctic Expedition. Delchev Ridge on Livingston Island bears also his name. The Goce Delčev University of Štip in North Macedonia carries his name too. Today many artifacts related to Delchev's activity are stored in different museums across Bulgaria and North Macedonia.

During the time of SFR Yugoslavia, a boulevard in Belgrade was named after Delchev. In 2016 its name was changed to Fyodor Tolbukhin, who led the Belgrade operation at the end of the Second World War. The motivation of the municipal authorities was that Delchev was not an ethnic Macedonian revolutionary, but an activist of an anti-Serbian organization with pro-Bulgarian orientation.[188]

In Greece the official appeals from Bulgarian side to the authorities to install a memorial plaque on his place of death are not answered. The memorial plaques set periodically by enthusiast Bulgarians afterwards are removed. Bulgarian tourists are restrained occasionally to visit the place.[189][190][191] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anastas.dzurovski (talk • contribs) 21:39, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2020

Georgi Nikolov Delchev (Macedonian: Георги/Ѓорѓи Николов Делчев, 4 February 1872 – 4 May 1903), known as Gotse Delchev or Goce Delčev (Гоце Делчев, originally spelled in older Bulgarian orthography Гоце Дѣлчевъ), was an important Macedonian revolutionary figure (komitadji) in Ottoman-ruled Macedonia and Thrace at the turn of the 20th century.[3][4][5] He was the most prominent leader of what is known today as Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO), a paramilitary organization active in Ottoman territories in the Balkans, at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century.[6] Delchev was its representative in Sofia, the capital of Principality of Bulgaria.[7]

Born into a Bulgarian family in Kilkis,[8] then in the Salonica Vilayet of the Ottoman Empire, in his youth he was inspired by the ideals of earlier Bulgarian revolutionaries such as Vasil Levski and Hristo Botev,[9] who envisioned the creation of a Bulgarian republic of ethnic and religious equality, as part of an imagined Balkan Federation.[10] Delchev completed his secondary education in the Bulgarian Men's High School of Thessaloniki and entered the Military School of His Princely Highness in Sofia, but he was dismissed from there, because of his leftist political persuasions. Then he returned to Ottoman Macedonia as a Bulgarian teacher,[11] and immediately became an activist of the newly-found revolutionary movement in 1894.[12]

Although considering himself to be an inheritor of the Bulgarian revolutionary traditions, as a committed republican Delchev was disillusioned by the reality in the post-liberation Bulgarian monarchy.[13] Also by him, as by many Macedonian Bulgarians, originating from an area with mixed population,[14] the idea of being ‘Macedonian’ acquired the importance of a certain native loyalty, that constructed a specific spirit of "local patriotism"[15][16] and "multi-ethnic regionalism".[17][18] He maintained the slogan promoted by William Ewart Gladstone, "Macedonia for the Macedonians", including all different nationalities inhabiting the area.[19][20] In this way, his outlook included a wide range of such disparate ideas as Bulgarian patriotism, Macedonian regionalism, anti-nationalism and incipient socialism.[21]

As a result, his political agenda became the establishment through revolution of an autonomous Macedono-Adrianople supranational state into the framework of the Ottoman Empire,[22] as a prelude to its incorporation within a future Balkan Federation.[23] He revised the Organization's statute, where the membership was restricted only for Bulgarians,[24] emphasizing the importance of cooperation among all ethnic groups in the territories concerned in order to obtain political autonomy.[25] Delchev also launched the establishment of a secret revolutionary network, that would prepare the population for an armed uprising against the Ottoman rule.[26] However, he opposed the IMRO Central Committee’s plan for a mass uprising in the summer of 1903, favoring terrorist and guerilla tactics. Nevertheless, he was killed by an Ottoman unit in May. Thus the liberation movement lost its most important organizer, at the eve of the Ilinden–Preobrazhenie Uprising.

Today Gotse Delchev is considered as a national hero in Bulgaria,[27] as well as in North Macedonia, where it is claimed that he was among the founders of the Macedonian national movement.[28] Macedonian historians insist that the historical myth of Delechev there is so significant, that it is more important then all the historical artifacts, researches and documents.[29] Despite such controversial[30][31] Macedonian historical interpretations,[32][33] Delchev had Bulgarian national identity[34][35] and viewed his compatriots as Bulgarians.[36] Some modern Macedonian leading historians and politicians have recognized grudgingly[37][38] or even openly this fact.[39] The designation Macedonian according to the then used ethnic terminology included local Greeks, Bulgarians, Turks, Vlachs, Albanians, Serbs, Jews and so on,[40][41] and when applied to the local Slavs, it meant a regional Bulgarian identity.[42] Opposite to the Macedonian claims, at that time even some Bulgarian IMRO revolutionaries, natives from Bulgaria, espoused to some extent Macedonian identity.[43] However, contrary to Bulgarian assertions, his autonomist ideas of a separate Macedonian (and Adrianopole) political entity, have stimulated the subsequent development of Macedonian nationalism.[44] Nevertheless, some researchers doubt, that behind the IMRO idea of autonomy was hidden a reserve plan for eventual incorporation into Bulgaria,[45][46][47] even for Delchev himself.[48]

The most detailed biography of Delchev in English is written by Mercia MacDermott: "Freedom or Death: The Life of Gotse Delchev".[49] Anastas.dzurovski (talk) 21:45, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

@Anastas.dzurovski:  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. (It appears you just copied the whole lead and pasted it here.) Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 00:20, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2020

Goce Delcev was Macedonian, not Bulgarian. Today known as "North Macedonia" is an independent country and its people are called Macedonians, not Bulgarians. 89.137.140.32 (talk) 12:59, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. GoingBatty (talk) 14:44, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

The lead is too long

MOS:LEAD says "As a general rule of thumb, a lead section should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs". The lead currently contains six paragraphs. I think the sixth small paragraph can be easily moved into the body of the article. Apples&Manzanas (talk) 07:03, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

It may be a good idea to drop some unnecessary details so that the information can fit in four paragraphs. Jingiby (talk) 07:07, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
In my opinion, the third paragraph doesn't need to be in the lead, that can be deleted (that material can still be included in the body of the article). Then the words "As a result," would need to be deleted from the following paragraph so that the material flows. Then the lead would be 4 paragraphs. I don't think anything in the third paragraph is particularly essential to have in the lead. Apples&Manzanas (talk) 19:56, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Concerns over article content - BMARC

The cover of the statute of the turn of the 20th century Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Committees (later IMARO/IMRO).
The cover of the regulations of the turn of the 20th century Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Committees (later IMARO/IMRO)

Name of Goce Delcev has nothing to do with BMARC and the reference there is misleading to the original statute of IMRO (VMRO). Not any source is mentioning such organization under the name of BMARC, nor there are other pages from that statute. So, the origin of that low-res image is of suspicious origin. None of the VMRO revolutionaries mentions such organization or that some of them participated in such organization. Therefore, please remove that low res image or provide the reliable sources (Memoirs of the VMRO fighters), for existence of such organization. Since you are relating it to the name of Goce Delcev, please provide exact source for Goce Delcev beeing part of BMARC Forbidden History (talk) 09:51, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Per Mercia MacDermott as result of the Congress held in Salonika in 1896, a new Statute was drawn up by Gyorche Petrov and Delchev. The Statute was largely Pertov's work, based on guidelines agreed by the Congress, but he used Delchev's assistance. In the new Statute, the official name of the organisation was Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Committees. [1] According to Kyril Drezov, the dogma of Macedonian historiography is that IMRO was an ‘ethnic Macedonian’ organisation and the acronym BMARC has been routinely abbreviated in Macedonian historiography to IMRO to avoid difficult questions about the presence in the same organisations of people nowadays described as ‘ethnic Macedonians’ from geographic Macedonia – together with ‘ethnic Bulgarians’ from the Vilajet of Adrianople. In this case a present-day ethnic reality is projected wholesale into the past.[2] Because its membership then was restricted only for Bulgarians, per Tchavdar Marinov most modern Macedonian historians reject its authenticity.[3] Of course, some Macedonian historians do not deny that statute and its name, but there are differences in the interpretation. Acad. Ivan Katardzhiev also believed that BMARC was the first name and that it existed in the first statute. According to Katardzhiev this name was given to the Organization at its first Congress, held in the summer of 1894. I would like to note that before the first publishing of the statute of the BMARC in Bulgaria, it was already published in 1965 in Skopje by Katardzhiev himself. The historian prof. Krste Bitovski also wrote in 1997 that the revolutionary organization was called so when it was created, and the well-known but undated statute, which calls it Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Committees is undoubtedly an original. He claims this statute is available in the Macedonian libraries. Bulgarian historians date these documents from 1896. According to a monograph by Tsocho Bilyarski, former director of the state archives, on the cover of the BMARK's regulations and statute there is a picture of a seated woman. The woman holds a shield with her left hand. On it, on the left, is written "Macedonia", and on the right, in very small font: "1896". This confirms that the year in which the statutes and regulations of the BMARC were drafted and printed was 1896. Per Ulf Brunnbauer since its early name emphasized the Bulgarian nature of the organization by linking the inhabitants of Thrace and Macedonia to Bulgaria, these facts are still difficult to be explained from the Macedonian historiography. They suggest that IMRO revolutionaries in the Ottoman period did not differentiate between ‘Macedonians’ and ‘Bulgarians’. Moreover, as their own writings attest, they often saw themselves and their compatriots as ‘Bulgarians’ and wrote in Bulgarian standard language.[4] Jingiby (talk) 17:52, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Freedom or Death, The Life of Gotse Delchev, The Journeyman Press, London & West Nyack, 1978, pp. 144-145.
  2. ^ Kyril Drezov, Macedonian identity: an overview of the major claims in The New Macedonian Question with J. Pettifer as ed., Springer, 1999, ISBN 0230535798, p. 55.
  3. ^ Tchavdar Marinov, We, the Macedonians The Paths of Macedonian Supra-Nationalism (1878–1912) Diana as ed., in We, the People: Politics of National Peculiarity in Southeastern Europe, Central European University Press, 2009, ISBN 9639776289, pp. 113-114.
  4. ^ Brunnbauer, Ulf (2004) Historiography, Myths and the Nation in the Republic of Macedonia. In: Brunnbauer, Ulf, (ed.) (Re)Writing History. Historiography in Southeast Europe after Socialism. Studies on South East Europe, vol. 4. LIT, Münster, pp. 165-200 ISBN 382587365X.

Delchev's name in Macedonian

The lack of mention of Delchev's name in Macedonian is obviously contentious. Let me remind you that whether Bulgarian or not, Delchev is an important figure in North Macedonia - being the first revolutionary mentioned in North Macedonia's anthem Denes nad Makedonija, having official state level commemorations for Delchev which includes ceremonies at his burial in North Macedonia, etc (see the Legacy section in the article). Therefore I view Apcbg's "irrelavant" snuff as unconstructive and propose that discussion is needed on the topic to put an end to the countless reverts. I encourage opinions from neutral editors, if not I think an RfC will be needed. --Beat of the tapan (talk) 09:36, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Can we please agree that the listing or non-listing of any name forms in the lead sentences of Wikipedia articles are never to be understood as a symbolic sign of acknowledging the connection of an article topic to a given ethnicity? The only question to ask is: what is relevant to the English-speaking reader. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:50, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
For editors just coming here, the relevant background to this discussion can be found here:User_talk:Jingiby#Question_re:_your_revert. I will comment additional thoughts later. Apples&Manzanas (talk) 10:13, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
I would like to refer to what Jingiby said in his talk page, that is, having the Macedonian name in addition to the Bulgarian name is convention in IMRO and SMAC revolutionary articles. Having such inconsistencies can be viewed as unencyclopedic. Beat of the tapan (talk) 10:23, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
My additional thoughts: I outlined my initial thoughts in my first edit summary: HERE. That contains much of what I have to say for the moment. But here are my additional thoughts for the time being. In the present day linguists remain divided over whether a "Macedonian language" exists or has ever existed, but there is absolute consensus among credible scholars that a 'Macedonian language' did not exist in the year 1872. Those who argue the Macedonian language exists argue it came about through political acts and codification taken in the 1940s. So it's absolutely misleading to English readers to use a foreign language to describe Delchev when (A) That language didn't exist at the time he was born (B) There's no evidence that I'm aware of that Delchev had ever claimed to speak 'the Macedonian language', i.e the codified language of SR Macedonia, which came decades after his death (C) His nationality is clearly listed in the article as Bulgarian, not Macedonian (D) He was not born in the territory of North Macedonia, the place where modern Macedonian is the official language. (E) You say:"[t]he lack of mention of Delchev's name in Macedonian is obviously contentious", but you could equally say that the presence of Delchev's name in Macedonian is obviously contentious. (F) The point is that Delchev's language was Bulgarian and his nationality was Bulgarian, so it makes sense for Bulgarian alone to be included. Apples&Manzanas (talk) 11:33, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
The Macedonian language clearly exists, only a nationalist living in la la land like yourself would think otherwise. There is no clear division amongst credible linguists outside Bulgaria and Greece on the existence of the Macedonian language, since such views that the language does not exist are considered as fringe nowadays. I am not convinced by your arguments. I will be reverting your change and therefore restoring the stable version of this article while we come to a clear consensus on the topic. And for the love of God stop editing your comment, I am getting edit conflicts and therefore I am going to address your comment in its original state. Beat of the tapan (talk) 11:48, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
"There is no clear division amongst credible linguists outside Bulgaria and Greece on the existence of the Macedonian language"...You clearly failed to read the Wikipedia article I linked you to in my comment, showing linguists outside of Bulgaria and Greece who do not recognize Macedonian as a language. As I said, linguists are divided on that subject. But this was never my argument anyway. My argument was that no credible view of linguists believed the Macedonian language existed in the 1800s, the linguists who argue that the Macedonian language exists, argue that it became a language due to political factors from approximately 1940s onwards. Just because a linguist believes that a language exists in 2020, it doesn't mean that they believe that language existed in the 1800s. In any case, you didn't respond to one single argument I made, so you should not revert. Apples&Manzanas (talk) 12:39, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Beat of the tapan, what means the phrase: whether Bulgarian or not? Very strange question. He was Bulgarian and that is recognised even by leading figures in North Macedonia. Also it is correct that Delchev is mentioned in North Macedonia's anthem Denes nad Makedonija, but there was an idea of the 1950s communist elite, to remove his name, because of his strong pro-Bulgarian sentiments. The rest afterwards is Yugoslav communists' historical myth supported now in NM. Jingiby (talk) 15:07, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Jingiby, I am saying it is not a matter of ethnicity but rather the fact he is a very predominate figure in NM, I mean there is a whole paragraph about NM's attitudes toward him in the lead, is there not? With regards to the anthem, I personally think the history of it does not matter but the fact that Delchev is explicitly mentioned in todays anthem. Beat of the tapan (talk) 23:28, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
So what if he is considered important in North Macedonia? That doesn't mean that the language needs to be used in the lead of an english language wikipedia. Analogy: Many people in North Macedonia consider Alexander the Great to be important, but historians (and wikipedia editors) would rightfully find it stupid if the modern Macedonian language was included in the article lead for Alexander the Great. So why should there be a double standard with Bulgarian heroes? Apples&Manzanas (talk) 00:33, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Alexander is a figure of antiquity that has nothing to do with the nation itself (I can go as far as saying he has nothing to do with any modern nation). Delchev is a contemporary figure who had ideals that helped shape NM and the Macedonian nation.Beat of the tapan (talk) 02:28, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
That may be your personal opinion, but it's blatantly false to deny that a large number of your compatriots do consider Alexander the Great to be important to North Macedonia. The evidence for that is overwhelming, Skopje 2014, Alexander the Great airport, conspiracy theory findings in the Historiography in North Macedonia, the use of the Vergina Sun as the former official flag of the self-described Republic of Macedonia. Apples&Manzanas (talk) 15:00, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Apples&Manzanas you realize that you are the one making the modifications to the stable version of the article? Therefore you need to obtain consensus prior to making such a change. Again, I am not convinced by your arguments which are mostly based the lack of existence of the standard in the 19th century (like many other languages). So if the language standard did not exist at the time of the articles focal point, we should remove any reference to it? With that naive mentality you will sure be changing many A-class articles which are based on topics outside the Balkans. Beat of the tapan (talk) 23:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I realise was changing the previously stable version, 4 people (including myself) agreed with my edit so far -- but this is besides the point. I made at least 6 arguments in favour of change, and no one has yet argued against any of them. If you aren't actually engaging on the talk page, I can only assume that you have no valid reasoning. Otherwise no point using the talk page. You actually need to provide valid reasoning to disagree. You ignored my points:(B)(C)(D)(E) and (F), which I clearly set out for you. Now regarding what you've said above, which addresses my point (A), the point you have missed is that it's misleading for an English language speaker to see a "Macedonian language" describing a Bulgarian figure, decades before that language even existed. You know what, you can even forget about when the Macedonian language was invented. The point is that it's misleading for an English speaker to see the official language of North Macedonia describing a Bulgarian figure, full stop. Even if the official language of North Macedonia existed since 1 million years ago, it still doesn't mean it should be used to describe Delchev. Apples&Manzanas (talk) 00:33, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
No, I actually addressed (A) and (B), the flaws with the rest of your points are addressed by Fut.Perf. above. Beat of the tapan (talk) 02:33, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
(Hopefully) my final comment: I think I've said all I have to on this topic. I'm pinging everyone who was involved in reverting the page, but hasn't yet commented, on both sides.(@Jingiby, Nk, Tomica, and Apcbg:.) I would like to hear more views from other people, so far every point I've made has simply been ignored. I would like to add one last point (G): If no one can provide reliable sources to show that Delchev had anything to do with the codified language of North Macedonia, then including it in the lead is purely a breach of Wikipedia's POV policies. Thanks. Apples&Manzanas (talk) 16:22, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Again with the argument about the codified Macedonian language (which a Greek POV pusher like yourself refers to the "codified language of North Macedonia") not existing at the time of Delchev. Anyway I agree to encourage more editors to contribute to this discussion especially those of NPOV, but consensus on Jingiby's Talk Page is not sufficient for consensus on the article. We discuss and only discuss here. Beat of the tapan (talk) 02:40, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
The reason I said "codified language of North Macedonia" is for the purpose of disambiguation. The average person does not know that the "Macedonian language" refers to the codified language of North Macedonia, so that is why it is important to specify what we're talking about. Before studying Balkans history, I would have assumed the "Macedonian language" was a language similar to Greek. I was surprised to learn that it is a newly codified form of a language mutually intelligible with Bulgarian. Now yes, you can argue that languages reflect political borders rather than linguistic borders, fine. But it is important to specify that what we're discussing here is that codified language in North Macedonia. Many people may see Delchev was born in the region of Macedonia (not the sovereign Republic of North Macedonia) and assume 'well, he must have spoke the Macedonian language', because he was born in 'Macedonia'. That's why I felt it necessary to explain what we're talking about here. As for your personal insults, I've addressed them already here Talk:Greeks, no point me repeating myself. Apples&Manzanas (talk) 13:39, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
I fully share the opinions of Fut.Perf. and Apples&Manzanas on the matter. Apcbg (talk) 08:01, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
I did not see anything about Fut.Perf. supporting Apples&Manzanas's modification to article. What Fut.Perf. can be directed to Apples&Manzanas as he is the one making the changes to the stable version. Anyway, it is encouraged that discussion remains open for while before making changes to the article. Beat of the tapan (talk) 09:35, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Delchev's name should very well be included in Macedonian. Examples of a person's name written in multiple languages, despite them being tightly associated with one country only, can be seen throughout Wikipedia (e.g. Christopher Columbus is written 6 languages, none of them was codified in its present-day form at the time when he lived, but the article still includes all the languages since he is part of the historiography of all the countries listed.) DD1997DD (talk) 20:21, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

I agree with DD1997DD. Bulgarian language was also reformed in 1945, when the letters Ѣ, ѣ and Ѫ, ѫ, were also removed from the Bulgarian alphabet. Than the name of his tomb cross, from Banica is written in non-existing language - Because the second letter from his surname does not exist in the Bulgarian language as well. Forbidden History (talk) 10:16, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, but I do not agree, because no one reformed the Bulgarian language in 1945, it was just a spelling reform. So the writing on the cross is written on a living language, with old spelling system. An attempt to reform the Bulgarian language was made by the same time only in Socialist Republic of Macedonia. Regards! --Nauka (talk) 11:36, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Then I don't see any reason, someone to asks to remove name of Goce Delcev written in Macedonian with pointing out the 'codified language of North Macedonia'. The codified language is codified as Macedonian Language, not as Macedonian Language of North Macedonia. If you drawing this parallel, then I can draw the parallel that I mentioned above. Modern Bulgarian alphabet doesn't have the letter ѣ since 1945 (which is a second letter of Goce's Surname), and we also get rid of that letter in 1945 and got installed few new letters, because the vocabulary and talking patterns of the Macedonian dialects needed them, back then. Who knows, new/old letters may be inserted in the future if people needs them. Alphabet is not creating the ethnicity of one nation. We are all talking English here, but that doesn't makes us Americans or Englishmen.Forbidden History (talk) 06:03, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
His name is in Bulgarian because he was Bulgarian. Apples&Manzanas (talk) 06:27, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

WP:TAGS

DD1997DD, per WP:TAGBOMBING; To avoid tag-bombing: consider applying only the most specific, helpful tags and improve it yourself. Per Wikipedia:Template index/Cleanup: Don't tag an article if you can confidently fix the problem; If an article has many problems, tag only the highest priority issues; Don't add tags for trivial or minor problems. Jingiby (talk) 11:12, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

The opening four paragraphs are too long

Can we make them more concise. Three paragraphs is more than enough. A lot of the info in the paragraphs can be moved below. The spelling of the name in the first paragraph is too long. GStojanov (talk) 18:19, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

The designation leading has been recently removed from the leading section of the article, together with the term intellectuals. The last one is described as a POV-ish term. In the text are cited the opinions of three important persons: prof. Todor Cepreganov, who was the director of the Institute of National History in Skopje (2001-2012); Stevo Pendarovski, who is the President of the Republic of N. Macedonia since 2019, and prof. Denko Maleski who is described in the Historical dictionary of North Macedonia as: prominent diplomat, academic, and public intellectual. Because they all are really leading but not random persons, I have restored the designation leading. I have changed also the term intellectual with public intellectual, that fits the text in the Dictionary's article. If prominent is better then leading we might change this designation. Any other ideas? Jingiby (talk) 06:41, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
PS. The Bulgarianness of Delchev has been recognized at a different level also by another prominent historians, politicians and public intellectuals in NM as Lyubcho Georgievski, Ivan Katardziev, Zoran Todorovski, etc. Jingiby (talk) 08:35, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
I am fine with your current changes. Kromid (talk) 11:30, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
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