Talk:Goodfellas

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Historical accuracy?

This article could use a section comparing the film’s account of events to what actually happened during the lives of the people depicted in the film. Morganfitzp (talk) 04:17, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That would be WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. There are other websites that allow that kind of thing. MarnetteD|Talk 04:57, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Such a thing would be better suited for the reception section anyway, as actually reliably sourced (not original research and/or synthesis of sources) comparisons could be used with other critical responses. Kirbanzo ^{(userpage - talk - contribs)} 17:00, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I sort of added a few notes on that yesterday with some sources.

For instance, Jimmy Burke wasn't even truly Irish. He was more Scandinavian. There are many "Irish" who are really of Danish (given Denmark's history in Ireland, via the Vikings) or Spaniard (given the Spanish Armada) who are Nordic, and most of the racists who are "Irish" tend to be them. Burke falls under that category.

Also Henry Hill wasn't exactly reputable for telling the truth either. So he wasn't reliable. While 95% of the things in the movie did happen, he could have made up certain things. There's no evidence suggesting an associated named Spider was killed. Paul Vario wasn't mean but he wasn't exactly the warm figure Henry shows in this movie either (although Burke was far more mean than Paul was)RobertFL1991 (talk) 22:19, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Out of curiosity, where does the 95% figure come from?

Also, what is the evidence that most Irish racists tend to be Nordic? milladrive (talk) 00:45, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a talk section. I'm just speaking on opinion. Last I checked that's OK. RobertFL1991 (talk) 00:47, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is indeed the talk section, and I'm just asking questions. You've stated in a section titled "Historical Accuracy" that these things are factual, so I'm inquiring as to where you've gotten your info. If these things are just opinion, then it seems that you should frame it as such. Numbers should have backing, and labeling people as bigots can be offensive. ...So I'm simply asking where you've gotten your info. milladrive (talk) 00:56, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't know numbers needed to be cited in a talk section. I don't know it's 95, I'm just making that conclusion. I didn't put into the article. And the Nordic part was my opinion, based on observation, and Ireland's history, which I had no intention of putting in the article. I'm also very familiar of the three main gangsters and their history. I know of the history of their involvement with the Luchesse crime family if I'm not mistaken. RobertFL1991 (talk) 00:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd really like to hear how you're familiar with them and their involvement. Are you related? A friend?

Regardless, you did post "95%" in the article, which I had to amend to a more accurate wording, so now saying that it's just your opinion is disingenuous. And you seem quite defensive here when I'm merely questioning your words, none of which were originally framed as opinion.

You seem like a good person, and I've been trying to help your contributions, for which Wikipedia is always grateful. Yes, posting in the articles need to be factual and hopefully sourced. But even when we post in the Talk sections, which are also public, our words are subject to inquiry. ...which is what I've been doing. You've positioned yourself as an authority on the subject, then have gotten defensive when questioned. What should anyone think? milladrive (talk) 01:27, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I never said I was an authority on the subject, man. I just know the story from what I've read in books and articles and long research that I do (because I research a lot). I just know who Paul Vario and Jimmy Burke are and have read history. I know the story outside of the movie because of that, plus I saw then Henry Hill documentary (I love watching documentaries).RobertFL1991 (talk)

Also I never meant to say 95 like it factual. I judged that by comparing the movie with the research I did. Henry Hill said something along those lines, I'm just mostly going after what he said. It wasn't serious. RobertFL1991 (talk) 01:36, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Starr as Frenchy

The year after GoodFellas came out, Mike Starr reprised his role as Frenchy in the television film The 10 Million Dollar Getaway, depicting the raid of the Lufthansa vault from the middle of the film. @Vaselineeeeeeee: I believe this is worth mentioning in the article. 2001:BB6:5241:C900:8086:42F9:494A:BE01 (talk) 17:37, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The source you provided doesn't seem to be a reliable one—more of an opinion piece as it does not substantively say it has any relation to Goodfellas. Unless a reliable source can show a concrete relationship to this film other than that it involves the same heist and a minor character from this film, I do not think it belongs in this article, let alone the lead. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:04, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vaseline is correct on this one. Just because Mike Starr happens to play Frenchy on the The 10 Million Dollar Getaway, doesn't make GoodFellas related to that movie. They were two separate projects, unless the director of Million Dollar Getaway comes out and says otherwise. In fact New Jack City is likely related to GoodFellas, give some WB similarities in casting and producers and certain overlapping storylines. RobertFL1991 (talk) 06:39, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One of the "greatest films of all time"?

This article's introduction states that "Goodfellas is widely regarded as one of the greatest films ever made, particularly in the gangster genre."

Regarded as one of the greatest films ever by whom? There's no citation for this, other than pointing out it's preserved by the National Film Registry—but as of 2020, there are 800 films on that Registry, so it's hardly a specific indicator of the greatest films ever made.

If we're going to say Goodfellas is one of the greatest gangster or crime movies, I'd understand that, but it seems like a stretch to say it's one of greatest ever, from any genre. Goodfellas is not on Sight and Sound's list of top 100 films ever,^[1] which is usually the definitive list.

Deadseaweed (talk) 00:24, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I found some stuff that might strengthen the statement's weight (The Independent,^[2] Hollywood Reported,^[3] Empire Online,^[4] Manchester Evening News,^[5] TimeOut,^[6] Stacker^[7]). I believe you can find many other sources stating the same thing. --► Sincerely: Sola virum 13:31, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's worth considering the guideline at MOS:PUFFERY. Like for example, with The Power of the Dog, I put that Metacritic reported how many top-ten lists listed that film. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 14:16, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't going to be helpful, but I should note the movie got major accolades, and probably did have AFL listings, on greatest for certain categories, likely of Best Picture, on any ranking, but don't quote me on that. RobertFL1991 (talk) 01:04, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also the movie missed out for Best Picture to Dances with Wolves, but not by much. But there is evidence it might have gotten snubbed. Maybe anti-Italian bigotry or something, I don't know. Or maybe because the Oscar establishment seems to favor Columbia Pictures and Paramount and, to a lesser extent, 20th Century Fox. To be fair though, Orion won big in 1990 and 1991 with that movie and Silence of the Lambs respectively. But that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Or maybe they just thought it was a crass movie. RobertFL1991 (talk) 01:12, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is the evidence that it got snubbed by "anti-Italian bigotry or something"? I realize that you say that you don't know for certain, but then why raise the argument, especially claiming to have evidence?

I'm just looking to have a discussion on it. What is the evidence? milladrive (talk) 02:33, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I also happen to think that GoodFellas is one of the greatest films of all time. milladrive (talk) 02:54, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Me too.

It's my favorite, although in the last 10 years, the John Wick movies have tied it. RobertFL1991 (talk) 02:59, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

Regarding citation for source #80 which I added yesterday

My apologies, but I got that from a site which is a subscription site. But if you type throughout you can see that the real Thomas DeSimone was indeed taller. RobertFL1991 (talk) 22:09, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www2.bfi.org.uk/greatest-films-all-time

[2] ttps://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/goodfellas-30th-anniversary-martin-scorsese-robert-de-niro-joe-pesci-gangster-film-b465779.html

[3] ttps://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/100-best-films-ever-hollywood-favorites-818512/goodfellas/

[4] ttps://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/best-movies-2/

[5] ttps://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/goodfellas-voted-best-film---1088883

[6] ttps://www.timeout.com/film/best-movies-of-all-time

[7] ttps://stacker.com/stories/1587/100-best-movies-all-time

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