Talk:Goodbye Cruel World (Elvis Costello album)

Goodbye Cruel World (Elvis Costello album) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: July 12, 2023. (Reviewed version).

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Bad Album?

I remember, although I don't have a link, Costello describing this album as some of his best songs with the worst performances. Certainly it is an 'End of an Era' album and his frustrations with the Attractions are clear in the sleeve notes. But, while he calls Steve Naive 'Maurice Worm' here and credits him as 'Random Racket' he later went to to make an album with him alone so he must have relented. Maybe Costello just has bad memories of this album. I'm not sure it's such a bad album personally, better overall I would say than 'Blood and chocolate' or Armed Forces.

first sentence of Cultural References section is missing its first word

What "...Is featured on the 7th episode of Malcolm Gladwell's podcast"? The song "The Deportees Club"? Fp cassini (talk) 14:20, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Status update

Currently expanding this one. I'm surprised to find none of the tracks have individual pages. If any of them there would be one for "Peace in Our Time", as per reviews I've found that's the album's highlight. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:00, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:10, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Goodbye Cruel World (Elvis Costello album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 14:14, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a. (reference section):

b. (citations to reliable sources):

c. (OR):

d. (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a. (major aspects):

b. (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

Copyvio check

I used Earwig's Copyvio Detector to detect matches and reviewed the top five matches. 38.7% match with AllMusic source: titles and attributed quotes. 32.9% NYT match: attribute quotes. 28.1% Trouser Press match: titles, attributed quote and a WP:LIMITED phrasing. 16.7% AllMusic match: WP:LIMITED phrases, titles. 16% allMusic match: WP:LIMITED phrases, titles. No issues.

Images

Album cover fair use rationale is reasonable.
The Gartside and Hall images are relevant. Captions and positioning are fine.
ALT text is included.

Background

Spot check on resumed his affair with model Bebe Buell, leading to the breakdown of his marriage - no issues
Spot check on "a reflective, narrative thread to the new songs" - no issues

Recording

What's the text supporting Barnacle's parts reflected the style of the times?

Checked and it was the liner notes. Since most of the record is already like this I'm just going to remove this bit as it's kind of superfluous. Also, coming from Costello himself it's kind of biased. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Music and lyrics

Gouldstone found various repeated lyrical themes and subjects from previous records - like what? (There's one example that follows, about "The Only Flame in Town" and "I'm Not Angry")

Re-reading it there's not too much else so we'll remove it there. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

he is unconcerned of his former lover's new boyfriend - maybe "about" in place of "of"?

Done

Costello felt it was one of the only songs not to have dated production - was this his view at the time, or in 2004?

In 2004; added "retrospectively" to clarify – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Spot check on "Joe Porterhouse" is about "the funeral of a family strong man" - no issues
Perone likens the 1960s pop rock sound to Ray Davies of the Kinks - didn't quite read right to me. Isn't the comparison to Davies's music/sound rather than him as a person?
a Samson a Delilah – typo

Fixed

murder in the World Wars. - "murder" doesn't quite feel right. I would have thought something like "slaughter" or "death" - but maybe sources do support the current text.

We'll go death – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Armed Forces - as this is the first mention, link it, and probably add a year in parentheses afterwards.

Oops, fixed

The photos for the album sleeve were shot by Brian Griffin, who took the inner shots for Armed Forces, in Montpellier before the recording sessions began. How about something like "Brian Griffin, who took the inner shots for Armed Forces (1979), shot photos for the Goodbye Cruel World album sleeve in Montpellier before the recording sessions began." ?

Better. Fixed.

Packaging

The album's title was taken from an obscure 1960s single written by James Darlin. is pretty close to the source'sThe album title was taken from the obscure Sixties single written by James Darlin,; WP:LIMITED arguably applies, but perhaps this could still be rephrased.

How about "The album's title came from an unknown 1960s single written by James Darlin"? or can we do better? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Release and promotion

BBC's Top of the Pops, he and the Attractions were banned from the programme after Pete Thomas mimed - I think it's worth adding that this is Costello's account, as being "banned" from TOTP is a bit of a badge of honour. He didn't exactly have a string of hit afterwards, but looks like it was a big gap til he was on again in 2003. Alternatively, you could add an independent source; after all most of them will be reporting what Costello has said or written as facts.

That better? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Spot check on Goodbye Cruel World sold poorly - source has "it sold poorly" (even though others might think that reaching the top 10 isn't particularly bad).

Added "nevertheless" reaching

"would have invited bankruptcy" - as there are two citations, add in where the quote comes from. (Unless both sources have it, I guess.)

Clarified

Costello became romantically involved with the Pogues' bassist Cait O'Riordan during this time. Is this relevant here?

I guess not. It kind of ties in to King of America but I suppose serves no relevance here. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Critical reception

Several noticed - add something like "critics" between these words. And "noticed" implies to me that it's an objective fact that there is "a lack of musical innovation" etc, when surely these are more subjective.

Adjusted

Numerous highlighted - again, I think a word between these, like "reviewers", would be better.

Added

Spot check on the Record Mirror review - yes it really was given five stars by Levy.

Yes. Yes it was. A 4/5 from Sounds and a B+ from Christgau ain't too bad either... – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Legacy

The former even recalled - I think it would be better to specify that it was Langer here.

Done

Reissues

bonus tracks that dated from the time period. - which time period?
again reissued by Rhino Records - maybe tweak, e.g. "again reissued, this time by Rhino Records,"?
[40][51][47][56] Optionally, you could use a WP:CITEBUNDLE

Both fixed. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 21:35, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
On my screen, "and reissued by UMe on 6 November 2015.[57]" appears away from the preceding text, due to the text box. Consider moving the text box to the right, although it may not be an issue on mobile or other screen resolutions.

Moved right – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Track listing

I prefer an intro sentence and source for a track listing, but as This Year's Model is an FA I can't insist on these.

Personnel

Looks fine.

Charts

Looks fine.

Sources

Looks like Christgau is the author for "The Rise of the Corporate Single".
Ref 52 (Young, Jon; Robbins, Ira.) is missing the source name.
Optionally, if it's working, you could use IABot to link more archive versions of sources.

All fixed.– zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 21:35, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and lead

of turmoil for the artist, the problematic sessions - how about a full stop instead of a comma?

Adjusted. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The album features a commercial, mainstream pop sound in line with music trends of the time. - the Perone quote seems faithful, based on the short preview I can see, but isn't it tautological to say that "mainstream pop" is "in line with music trends of the time"?

removed "mainstream" – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The album's 2004 reissue, which included stripped-down demo versions, critics felt redeemed many of the tracks - slightly odd phrasing.

Adjusted. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all your work on the article Zmbro. As ever, feel free to challenge any of my review comments. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:24, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for picking this up. Was beginning to think no one ever would. I wrote this like last October lol. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:26, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

BennyOnTheLoose All set. Thanks for reviewing. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 02:35, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just two tiny pending points, but they don't amount to enough to stop the article being promoted to GA, as it meets the criteria. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:09, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think "unknown" is a bit strong in "The album's title came from an unknown 1960s single written by James Darlin" - maybe "little-known" or "minor"?
You haven't changed Perone likens the 1960s pop rock sound to Ray Davies of the Kinks which didn't quite read right to me. If you don't want to change it that's fine. (I also noticed this time that it's the second "Perone likens" in three paragraphs, optionally you could change one phrasing.)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.