Talk:Global Country of World Peace

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Littleolive oil (talk · contribs) This user has contributed to the article. (link)
TimidGuy (talk · contribs) This user has contributed to the article. (link)

Moved from Transcendental Meditation article

The article on Transcendental Meditation had become way too large. Plus, many of the points covered were only tengentially related to Transcendental Meditation. As a partial remedy, and in adherence to the Guideline on article length, I have moved the section on the Global Country of World Peace to this new article. I hope to add more detail about the goals of the Global Country of World Peace as I have time.TimidGuy 15:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New templates

I added "main" and "navigation" templates Tanaats 01:43, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Citation

I was working on this topic and tried some of the links,e.g. http://www.maharishiglobalfinancing.org/Europe11/index.html but they seem to be no longer active. Sueyen 22:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The page seems to have been deleted entirely, with no explanation.

There is an explanation in the deletion log. The page was deleted under CSD G11. --Philosophus ^T 22:51, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article

The Global Country is the current umbrella organization for activities and organizations initiated by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. This article about it was speedy deleted, and then restored with the suggested that it be greatly reduced. I've removed the redirect so that it can be edited according to the direction of the Admin who speedy deleted and then restored -- which is to greatly reduce it in length. TimidGuy 15:21, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How do we know what is the "umbrella" organization?

This article reads like an advertisement. Judyjoejoe (talk) 02:30, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rajas

In the meantime there are 36 (?) rajas, a further developed structure related to cities and locations of india: I know, there is alsways the need of still more time for writing. I for myself am german and can only suggest. anybody out there who would like to do and could do the research and writing? --Josha52 (talk) 13:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the statement that the rajas were "intensively" trained. What is the source for the extent of training? Training to do what? What about the common knowledge that the raja "course" costs a million dollars? Who are these rajas? Judyjoejoe (talk) 02:32, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Judy. I like your deletion of "intensively." I think the sentence you added would need to be sourced; otherwise it probably violates the policy regarding no original research. TimidGuy (talk) 12:50, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think my statement needs to be deleted. What I am saying is that there is no original research on how many meditate today and the TMO does not state indicate how many people of the number taught continue to meditate. I can cite the same source that claims six million were taught, but say that the source does not say how many continue. Judyjoejoe (talk) 14:58, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If that is not sufficient, I will find a third party source. Judyjoejoe (talk) 15:04, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The organization has no way of knowing how many still meditate. Yes, I think you'd need a published source. TimidGuy (talk) 15:54, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dead Links

This article is full of reference links that are no longer functioning. I am going to search for other reference material for these links. If they cannot be found, then the article may have to be rewritten. I'll keep you posted. Bigweeboy (talk) 01:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Big, see what you can find and then we can see if anything needs to be edited after that. --Kbob (talk) 03:47, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Coming back to this article after some time. I am removing the "dead" links. We can try to fine "live sources" later. Bigweeboy (talk) 17:44, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of POV

I removed a rather large section that is a point of view. If such material is added, it should have a source to support it.Thanks.(olive (talk) 15:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Good work Olive. Thanks. Bigweeboy (talk) 16:01, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Meditation

The section on meditation seems out of place. There's no indicaiton of what connection it has with the topic of the article, besides having the Maharishi in common. Unless the two can be connected in some way, I suggest deleting it. The TM article is already linked in the intro and the template. Will Beback talk 19:22, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

While TM is an important aspect of the programs offered and supported by GCWP, I think your suggestion is reasonable. Bigweeboy (talk) 15:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I also agree, the link to TM page is enough. Good eye Will.--Kbob (talk) 21:39, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

External Links

I have added 2 external links - one to US Peace Government; another GCWP web site. Bigweeboy (talk) 17:56, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What's the connection of the US Peace Government to the Global Country of World Peace? That's never spelled out in the text. Will Beback talk 18:52, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On the US Peace Gov web site we read: "The US Peace Government is the US affiliate of the Global Country of World Peace." How about we add a new section titled "GCWP in the UAS"? Bigweeboy (talk) 14:28, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is USPG the only affiliate, or are there GCWP affiliates in ountries too? Will Beback talk 19:18, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Bigweeboy, Doesn't GCWP have their own official web site? If not, I guess the Peace Gov site is OK since it says that it is the US affiliate of the GCWP. However the other link that you call the GCWP doesn't give any info about GCWP in spite of the fact that the words GCWP are at the top of the page. So I think maybe that link should be taken down. What do you think?--Kbob (talk) 20:33, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to bring the Raam artcile to this page

I would like to merge the RAAM article into this one. Is this OK?-- — Kbob • Talk • 20:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Makes sense to me. I added the appropriate tags to both articles. If nobody object after a decent interval, go ahead and do it.Fladrif (talk) 16:57, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a reason for the merger? Will Beback talk 07:00, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. I seriously doubt, given the lack of external sources on the Raam currency, that it is notable enough for its own article. "Raam currency" gets all of 5 hits on google news archive, all between 2002 and 2005. "Raam notes" gets one hit. I think that establishes a complete lack of notability.Fladrif (talk) 15:50, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think that search may understate the available sources. I'm busy with other articles at the present, but I think that there are more sources that can be added. Also, as a currency, it's nice to have it as a separate article - for example there's a currency infobox that would be less appropriate if it were just a section of another article. Will Beback talk 16:40, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Maharishi Vedic Education Development Corporation

An editor recently added a tag suggesting that this article be merged to Maharishi Vedic Education Development Corporation. I disagree. First, I've suggested that the MVEDC article be merged to the TMM article. Second, the MVEDC is a US coproation whose main purpose appears to be holding the sublicenses to trademarks, and possibly to holding title to properties in the US. Third and most important, the Global Country of World Peace is an international country with a substantial bureaucracy. It is the successor to the Natural Law Party and is many respects the main organ of the TM movement. Unfortunately, the current article does not describe it properly. Will Beback talk 23:29, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you WIll. Thanks, --BwB (talk) 20:59, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A merger of the MVED and GCWP articles seems like an arbitrary suggestion to me with their only link being TM but maybe the editor who suggested the merger would like give us his thoughts on it.-- — Kbob • Talk • 21:59, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Organizations associated with the Transcendental Meditation movement

Gee, there are a lot of merge requests. In this case, I don't see a reason to merge this article into the big list. This topic is notable on its own. It's fairly long already and likely to get longer. Will Beback talk 22:23, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rajas'

Looking at this section [Rajas] it is interesting to note that most of these people (who seem to wish to make political/social/cultural impute to the various countries they have been "assigned" (given the statement "... intention is to have a parental and nourishing role in the family of nations) are white and of Anglo-Saxon origin (mainly American). At the same time they have been "assigned" countries where the population may not mirror this racial or cultural typing. Have there been any reliable sources who have commented on this? Tucker ^talk 21:17, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

None that I've seen. Will Beback talk 21:32, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pity Tucker ^talk 23:35, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reference questions

Always trying to learn more as a Wiki editor.

1. Can you please help me with this reference? Is it valid? It seems to be a reprint of a CNN story, but the URL link at the top of the story to CNN returns an error.

"The Maharishi and the Global Country of World Peace unsuccessfully approached small, impoverished nations about purchasing or leasing land to create a sovereign nation, and in one case sought to install a king in an indigenous tribal nation.^[1]" --BwB (talk) 13:42, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

2. Can we use reference sources for the English version of Wiki that are in Spanish?

"On June 23, 2002, a ceremony was held on the Talamanca reservation to appoint a TM-chosen Indian as the reservation's first king.^[2]" --BwB (talk) 13:50, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

^ "Mystic's followers want own country". CNN. June 6, 2001.
^ "Costa Rica: Secta divide a indígenas". La Fogata. July 24, 2002.

CNN is a valid source. That article has been reprinted in two other locations as well: [1][2] Links aren't necessary, they're a convenience.

I suggest you read WP:V. Will Beback talk 19:57, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Will. The policy says it is preferable to use English refs, and if none available, then to provide a translation in the footnotes. However, in this article there is no translation provided. What should we do? --BwB (talk) 07:33, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It says the text should be added to a footnote, or this talk page, if requested by other editors. The text is available at the link and Google or AltaVista can provide translations. Are you requesting me to copy the text from the link that you can follow yourself, and copy the automatic translation that you can get on your own? If you are then I'll do so. Will Beback talk 07:44, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No Will, I am not asking you to do anything. --BwB (talk) 08:01, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, if there's no request then we're in compliance with the policy. Will Beback talk 08:05, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Question on Sources

The Maharishi Purusha Capital of the Western World is located on 170 acres in West Virginia purchased by the GCWP in 2009.^[1]^[2] The property will be designated a Global Capital and will include a palace for the Maharaja and residences for the Raja of Invincible America and the Prime Minister. Accomodations for 150-200 people, including 120 professional meditators, are being constructed.^[1] Bob LoPinto, the Raja of Potomac Vedic America (regional director),^[3] is overseeing the project.^[1]

^ ^a ^b ^c Pisciotta, Marla (January 1, 2009). "Meditation Retreat Planned for Hampshire County". State Journal.
^ Purusha Capital 39°23′18″N 78°37′35″W / 39.3883°N 78.6264°W / 39.3883; -78.6264 (Purusha Capital)
^ "Ads for sex aids, gravestones gravely find their way despite spam blockers". Daily Breeze. Torrance, Calif. August 30, 2005. p. A.2.

Some of the text in the paragraph below, which currently appears in the article is unsupported to be unsupported. There is one source [3] which says the GCWP purchased land for 1500-200 for meditating professionals and that Bob LoPinto is the regional director for the project. However I don't see any sources that support the rest of the content. There is a source listed is community newspaper in Calif (the land is in VA) and has an article title "Ads for Sex Aids". Is this vandalism? There is no page number or date given and at present the source is not verifiable. Does anyone have any further insight on this? -- — Keithbob • Talk • 21:08, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I moved it above for easier threading and to add the reflist. Will Beback talk 21:12, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This text was copied by Bwb from Maharishi_Sthapatya_Veda#Purusha_Capital. I'm not sure which specific assertions you're questioning. I don't know of any source that talks about accommodations for 1500.

The relevant material from Daily Breeze is:

I'm getting beaten to death by breathless announcements from a New England gravestone makers association. Just the ticket for a California columnist. Same goes for the upcoming inauguration of "His Highness Bob LoPinto as Raja of Potomac Vedic America aboard the yacht Celebrity." Really, Raja LoPinto? (An Italian raja?) I'd like to go but I can't because I'm too busy considering an invitation to "Real Movers and Shakers," a variety show featuring handicapped people scheduled for early October.

The column is based on various announcements the reporter has received. Will Beback talk 04:09, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The text has been edited since I move it from the MSV article. Cut down, it look like. --BwB (talk) 09:06, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I trimmed it. Apparently you copied large blocks of text from other articles. I deleted the material that wasn't relevant here, or that was otherwise unnecessary to repeat in two places, and linked back to the full texts. Even with hyperlinks we'll never achieve the theoretical ideal of having material appear only once, but we should try to minimize duplication. Will Beback talk 09:54, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One other point of discussion - in the list of Rajas presented in the article, we see Bob LoPinto mentioned and the countries he is associated with. In the "Daily Breeze" reference Bob LoPinto is called the "Raja of Potomac Vedic America". which is correct? --BwB (talk) 09:14, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The domains of the rajas appear to have changed occasionally, at least during the Maharishi's lifetime. There's no reason to assume that both descriptions can't be correct. Will Beback talk 09:54, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How can both be correct? Either LoPinto is the Raja of Potomac Vedic America, or he is not. --BwB (talk) 10:53, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We don't have any source that says he is not. There are at least two possibilities. First, the sources may be incomplete, and he may hold all of the titles. For example, I've seen where rajas with multiple domains are addressed with only the most relevant title when talking about their activity in an particular domain. Just becasue the other domains aren't mentioned in the same breath doesn't mean they don't exist. A second possibility is that he held the Raja of Potomac Vedic America title at the time of the first source (2005) and then he gained the other titles later. I don't see why Bob LoPinto and the Purusha Capital continue to generate so much controversy. If there are any COI issues here I trust that the COI guideline will be followed closely. If that's not it then maybe someone can explain why we keep talking about this same text which we already discussed at the MSV article. Will Beback talk 11:11, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Let's not get too far astray here. The goal of this thread is simple; to make sure that the text which is posted at the top of this article is properly sourced.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 02:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I've cleaned up the text to accurately reflect the existing sources. Since none of the sources mentioned, Purusha Capital, Rajas or GCWP capitals, I removed that text and moved the revised text to a more appropriate location in the article. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 03:07, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd asked you to specify which material you felt needed sources, but instead of responding you just rewrote the text, deleting material that is readily sourceable. Yes, there are sources for the raja, the capital, etc. I've restored some of that. Please be more careful in the future and ask clearer questions before deleting material. Will Beback talk 03:35, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My initial post at the top of this thread is comprehensive and clear. I was requesting substantiation for unsupported text. I posted the text and the citations in question. I asked for a quote from one source for which there was no link. You then provided a quote from the source in question and the quote did not support any of the text. All of the necessary information was provided so that any editor who was interested in the content being challenged could see which text was not sourced and had an opportunity to provide sources for the un-sourced text. There was no wrong doing. Editors do not need your permission before making good faith changes to the article. Please be more careful in the future to avoid criticizing and finding fault with fellow editors who are working within Wiki policies, in a collaborative and good faith manner to improve an article.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 15:16, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I told you, this text was simply copied from another article and then trimmed slightly here. The text was already discussed at great length on the MSV talk page. You are acting as if you'd never seen this before and didn't know that it had already been vetted. On this page, you wouldn't answer my simple question about which assertions you felt were unsourced. I do assume good faith, but good faith isn't an excuse for deleting sourced material. Anyway, I trust this is now settled and we won't have to spend another month discussing LoPinto. Will Beback talk 20:25, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I removed unsourced text after challenging it in this thread. Please stop your mischaracterizations such as: "good faith isn't an excuse for deleting sourced material".-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:52, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I told you in response to your initial thread, this material was copied from another article, where you and I had discussed it at length. In the interests of AGF, I'll assume that you forgot about our previous discussions and failed to read my reply. If that's the case, please be more careful in the future. Will Beback talk 21:02, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Source for list of Rajas?

Do we have a source for the list of Rajas presented in the article? --BwB (talk) 09:11, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The original source was a series of webpages that contained memorial tributes to the Maharishi from members of the GCWP and other luminaries. It seems to have disappeared from the web. (I've learned my lesson - TM-related websites are unstable). Luckily, an abbreviated version of the same information, with titles, was printed in a newsletter which I've found recently.[4] Complicating matters are the edits of a new editor which changed the domain assignments. I'd guess that these two edits were probably made by the same person.[5][6] They seemed to be working from some source, though I've never found it. It seemed authoritative so I left it. While I assume that the new information is more accurate, it is not verifiable. I'd be fine with reverting back to the earlier version, but the ideal would be to find an up-to-date list. Surely one of the editors here can find such a document? Will Beback talk 10:12, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, here's a very short and out of date list.[7] (scroll to the end). Will Beback talk 10:14, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, there are many pages like this one, [8], that list the titles for individual rajas. Will Beback talk 10:45, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I feel it important to have this information referenced. --BwB (talk) 10:50, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Go for it. Will Beback talk 11:12, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It would be good for it to be referenced. At the same time I think we can be a little patient with the process unless someone feels that the text currently in the article is contentious in some way.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 02:39, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If there's no objection, I'll revert it back to the prior version which is verifiable. I assume that the E-Gyan newsletter is an adequate source. If we ever find a newer or better source then we can change it. Will Beback talk 05:11, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I found this list in a movement publication from 2004. I'd guess these are the original rajas and their domains.

Raja Dr. Robert Wynne — Raja of Vedic America
Raja Dr. Michael Dillbeck — Raja of Chicago
Raja Dr. Rogers Badgett — Raja of Atlanta
Raja Dr. Tom Stanley — Raja of Denver
Raja Dr. Graham de Freitas — Raja of Minnesota
Raja Dr. John Konhaus — Raja of California
Raja Dr. Kingsley Brooks — Raja of New England
Raja Dr. Howard Chandler — Raja with Universal Domain
Raja Dr. Bob LoPinto — Raja of Potomac Vedic America

Unless we can find sources that these titles were replaced with the newer ones, the conservative thing would be to list all sourced titles. Will Beback talk 09:09, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok

Yes, I see "transcendental" is part of the quote...its a poor word choice since it can have so many references, but if its quoted has to be used.(olive (talk) 04:38, 15 September 2010 (UTC))[reply]

We don't have to use the quote. I think it's a bit odd too. Will Beback talk 04:42, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I altered the text so that it's no longer a quotation to address these concerns. Will Beback talk 05:07, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Monarchy

Explanation of CE: I removed the term 'absolute monarchy' (and left it as simply 'monarchy) because the wikilink states absolute monarchy is determined by heredity or marriage. That doesn't seem to be the case here since the article states Nader was appointed to the role.Octopet (talk) 16:29, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine. I recall seeing 'absolute monarchy' in a source, but there's no citation so I can't find it again. The Wikipedia article is not definitive, but it's reason enough for the edit. Will Beback talk 21:34, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a source for saying it's a monarchy? TimidGuy (talk) 10:06, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is that really a serious question? Will Beback talk 20:02, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. TimidGuy (talk) 10:22, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Most system that have a monarch are monarchies, but I'll track down a source which says so explicitly. Will Beback talk 19:21, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I put in a source for "kingdom" and changed the text to reflect it. Will Beback talk 20:17, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to see sources for much of the intro in the lead.Octopet (talk) 18:08, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the material is sourced in the text of the article. Will Beback talk 19:21, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion at RSN

There is a discussion at RSN regarding a source that is cited in this article (among others) If you wish to participate in the discussion please visit the thread here [9]-- — Keithbob • Talk • 15:51, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

-- — Keithbob • Talk • 12:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Parking content

The Global Country of World Peace (GCWP) is headquartered in Maharishi Vedic City, Iowa. GCWP describes itself as a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere.^[1]^[2]

GCWP aims to "support existing governments and assist them in creating problem free administration for their nation".^[3] Through the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi programs, the GCWP aspires to provide peace creating technologies that also maintain cultural diversity.^[3] The organization is led by Tony Nader under the title "Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam"^[4] and Bevan Morris who is the Prime Minister.^[5]

During the early 2000s, GCWP made unsuccessful efforts to attain sovereignty. GCWP approached poor nations in Africa, Asia and Latin America about purchasing or leasing land to create a sovereign nation, and in one case sought to install a king in an indigenous tribal nation.^[6] In 2001, it was reported that the GCWP had been trying for years to make such arrangements in Africa, Asia, and South America.^[7] Starting in November 2000, the GCWP began making overtures to the President of Suriname regarding the lease of 3,500 acres (14 km²) of rural land to create a sovereign nation. GCWP offered US$1.3 billion over three years for a 200-year lease, plus 1 percent of the country's money annually.^[7] The UNHCR reported that, in July 2001, the island nation of Tuvalu rejected, after serious consideration, a proposal from the Maharishi Spiritual Movement to create a "Vaticanlike sovereign city-state" near the international airport in exchange for a payment of $2 million a year.^[8]

The RAAM, or Raam is a currency and bond issued in 2001 by Stichting Maharishi Global Financing Research (SMDFR), a charitable, Netherlands foundation.^[9] The Raam is also the "global development currency" of the GCWP.^[10] The Raam was designed to be a flexible currency for national governments to use in the development of agricultural projects with the goal of eliminating poverty in third world countries.^[10]^[11]

Refs

^ Hamill, Sean D. (February 22, 2008). "Sites for 'Maharishi Effect' (Welcome to Parma) Spread Across U.S." The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved November 15, 2009.
^ Craig Ridgley, Safire Internet Solutions, http://safire.net. "Maharishi Open University". Mou.org. Archived from the original on May 17, 2008. Retrieved November 15, 2009. {{cite web}}: External link in |author= (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)^{[failed verification]}
^ ^a ^b "Global Country of World Peace". Global Country of World Peace. October 15, 2002. Retrieved November 15, 2009.
^ Mani, Rajiv (February 11, 2008). "Tony Nader to lead Maharishi's mission [India]". The Times of India. New Delhi.
^ "Meditation Retreat Planned for Panhandle". Charleston Daily Mail. Associated Press. January 7, 2009. Archived from the original on September 5, 2010.
^ "Mystic's followers want own country". CNN. June 6, 2001.
^ ^a ^b McGirk, Jan (June 8, 2001). The Independent. London (UK). p. 17. {{cite news}}: Missing or empty |title= (help); Unknown parameter |unused_data= ignored (help)
^ "Freedom in the World – Tuvalu (2002)". UNHCR. 18 December 2001. Archived from the original on September 5, 2010. Retrieved January 11, 2010.
^ "Global Development Currency: RAAM" (PDF) (Press release). November 14, 2006. Retrieved September 5, 2010.
^ ^a ^b "GFCNY: Poverty Removal". Globalfinancialcapitalny.org. Archived from the original on September 5, 2010. Retrieved November 15, 2009.
^ Rossingh, Danielle (February 5, 2003). "Dutch give nod to 'guru currency'". BBC. Retrieved November 15, 2009.

The content above was removed from the GCWP section of the TM movement article and replaced with the lead of the GCWP article which provided a better summary of the topic. After looking through the above content it appears to me that all of the info covered above is already included in the GCWP article but I am parking it here in case I have missed something that needs to be included in the main GCWP article. Thanks for your help. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 20:45, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Suriname

I'm not sure the current article text (below ) is accurate.

Starting in November 2000, the GCWP began making overtures to the President of Suriname regarding the lease of 3,500 acres (14 km²) of rural land to create a sovereign nation. It offered $1.3 billion over three years for a 200-year lease, plus 1 percent of the country's money annually, and the creation of 10,000 jobs.^[1]^[2]

Sources say:

"Yogi's disciples want to create new utopia", The Independent (London, England) (June 8, 2001)Jan McGirk Latin America Correspondent----DISCIPLES OF Maharishi Mahesh Yogi... They have offered the government of Suriname $1.3bn (pounds 935m) over three years to lease 3,500 acres for a rural utopia 25 miles north-east of the capital, Paramaribo. The proposed "Global Country of World Peace" would mint its own currency, maintain a central bank and its own legal jurisdiction. ........Suriname's President, Ronald Venetiaan, has ignored three requests since November to kickstart negotiations for this "country within a country". Winston Wirht, vice- president of the Maharishi Council for Economic Development of Suriname, promised to create 10,000 new jobs in organic farming and Suriname's Ministry of Agriculture seems willing to begin talks, but the President's approval is essential. He said: "It is unimaginable what Suriname will gain. It's a shame Venetiaan does not seem willing to even talk to us." The impoverished former Dutch colony would be rewarded with 1 per cent of the new country's money annually for 200 years, Mr Wirht said.

(June 5, 2001) "Mystic's followers wants own country", CNN News, Paramaribo, Suriname -- Followers of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi want to establish a 3,500-hectare (8,645-acre) sovereign state on rural land in the South American country of Suriname. The government of Suriname, a former Dutch colony, has so far not accepted the Maharishi International University of Management's offer to invest $1.3 billion over three years and provide 10,000 jobs. Followers of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi...... want to lease the land in the district of Commewijne for at least 200 years to set up their agricultural society. The land, about 40 kilometers (25 miles) northeast of the capital, Paramaribo, had previously been used for farming by a now-bankrupt government agricultural foundation. The group wants to set up what it calls a "Global Country of World Peace," with its own currency, central bank and jurisdiction, said Winston Wirht, vice president of the university's Maharishi Council for Economic Development of Suriname. The Ministry of Agriculture in a recent letter to the council has offered to start negotiations. However, President Ronald Venetiaan, who would have to approve such a deal, has not responded to the Maharishi council's three requests since November. Officials in Venetiaan's office could not immediately be reached for comment. "This is something to help the Surinamese people out of poverty," Wirht said. "It is a shame that Venetiaan does not seem willing to even talk to us." The sovereign state's main industry would be organic farming and the export of produce, Wirht said. The Maharishi followers would reward Suriname each year by giving the government 1 percent of the money the sovereign state's central bank puts into circulation, Wirht said.

"The TM trip: Yogi bears Hindu-based faith to America" Church & State (June 1, 2009)|Boston, Rob----Other TM projects have been less successful. In 2001, devotees offered to pay more than $1 billion for 3,500 acres in the South American country of Suriname to create their own sovereign "Global Country of World Peace." The president of the nation ignored the request.

-- — Keithbob • Talk • 20:52, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly the wording "starting in November 2000" should be changed, since it makes it sound as if the effort is ongoing. It appears to be several offers dated between November 2000 and June 2001. I'm going to edit the text accordingly. TimidGuy (talk) 10:39, 22 March 2013 (UTC) I see it was already fixed. TimidGuy (talk) 11:04, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Refs

^ Cite error: The named reference McGirk was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ "Mystic's followers want own country". CNN. June 6, 2001.

Shift emphasis of article?

GCWP was originally a novel idea, but it morphed into, as I understand it, the corporate entity responsible for teaching TM worldwide. I believe it's the umbrella organization for the TM movement. This article is largely focused on the historical notion of a global country. It seems like the article should primarily be about the actual organization, with the historical material presented in that context. TimidGuy (talk) 10:35, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've put a tag on the lead. It's not a representative summary of the content in the article. The article needs to be rearranged. Right now its randomly segmented. Why doesn't it have a History section? That would consolidate a lot of info and show how it developed from a conceptual nation into an administrative entity. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 19:15, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Overuse of primary sources

I've placed a primary source tag on the article as it uses primary sources excessively. By my count there are 42 cites to primary sources plus 26 additional cites to a single primary source that lists all the administrators of the GCWP. This article is, in my opinion, bloated and borders on promotional. In my view it needs to be summarized using the highest quality secondary sources and cut back to about half its current size (just a guesstimate).-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:59, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest removing the following re: WP:PRIMARY

The Global Country article does indeed use a lot of primary sources—they are used as citations for approx half of the total text. Something like half of these look like they might be acceptable, since they are used to support “straightforward descriptive statements of facts,” as explained in WP:PRIMARY) [10]. However, I see ten instances in which a primary source—usually a reference to one or other TM organization website—is used to support content that is complex and open to interpretation, and which therefore does not seem to be in accord with policy. I suggest removing the text in these cases. Comments?

The ten are as follows (in bold):

Under "Mission"

1) The GCWP states as its mission to support existing governments and assist them in creating problem-free administration for their nation through the application of Natural Law.[7] The GCWP's intention is to have a parental and nourishing role in the family of nations.[7](Primary: GCWP site) According to a report from Bloomberg, the GCWP's tax filings relate its mission as the creation of world peace 'by unifying all nations in happiness prosperity, invincibility, and perfect health'.[8](OK--SEC Source)

2) The GCWP website included an application for citizenship in 2006. Citizenship was open to all peace-loving people who agreed with the country's goals. New citizens would have dual citizenship with Maharishi Vedic America, and they would get a flag and a passport.[9](Primary: GCWP site) The ladies' wing of the GCWP is called the "Global Mother Divine Organization".[10](Primary: Global Good News)

Under "Raam currency"

3) The Global Country of World Peace has issued its own currency called the "Raam".[11](Primary: a currency catalogue site)

4) The GCWP's plan is to use the Raam as a "catalyst currency" to facilitate the implementation of agriculture and developmental projects throughout the world, to assist in the elimination of international poverty.[3](Primary: Maharishi Open University) The currency has been used in Iowa and has been also given approval in The Netherlands where more than 100 Dutch shops, department store chains, in 30 villages and cities are using the notes at a fixed rate of 10 euros per raam.[12](OK--Secondary)

5) Under "US Peace Government" (all refs in this sect are primary--TM orgn sources, such as US Peace Gov't)

John Hagelin established the U.S. Peace Government (USPG) on July 4, 2003,[13](Primary: US Peace Gov't) as an affiliate of the Global Country of World Peace. The US Peace Government and the Global Country of World Peace were created to promote evidence-based and sustainable solutions as well as policies of governance that are aligned with Natural Law.[13] As president of the USPG,[13] Hagelin presides over a national assembly of USPG state representatives or governors, who in turn preside over US Peace Government assemblies and capital buildings in their respective states.[13] The office of the President of the U.S. Peace Government is at The Jefferson hotel, Washington D.C.[14] (Primary: as with ref 13, the US Peace Gov't site)

6) Under "Administrative centers--Europe, India"

The Global Capital for World Peace is based at MERU, Holland, property owned by the Maharishi Foundation near Vlodrop which was the residence of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.[15](OK--Secondary) It is the site where he proclaimed the creation of the Global Country of World Peace and crowned the Maharaja. It also houses the campuses of the Maharishi European Research University (MERU) and a Maharishi Vedic University. The "administrative Capital of World Peace", also called the "Maharishi World Capital of Peace", the "Global Capital of World Peace", and the "Capital of Global Raam Raj", was reported in a 2007 press release to be is under construction in the center of India.[16] (Primary: TM movement press release from the "Global Good News" site)

7) Under "Administrative centers--USA"

Maharishi Vedic City is the "Capital of the Global Country for World Peace",[17](OK--secondary) also called the "Maharishi City Capital of the Age of Enlightenment". "The Mansion" became the headquarters for the Global Country of World Peace in 2002.[18](Primary: MVedic City site) The city's plan and building code follow Maharishi Sthapatya Veda principles.[19][20] (OK--one of these is secondary) Architecture professor Keller Easterling says that Maharishi Vedic City reflects the GCWP's interest in achieving a "benign form of global sovereignty".[21] (OK-secondary) Utilizing donations from supporters, the GCWP has built a 210,000-square-foot (20,000 m2) campus there to house 1,050 Vedic pandits from India.[22] (Primary: Global Country newsletter)

8) Under "Peace Palaces"

The Global Country of World Peace has undertaken the construction of Peace Palaces, with a goal of one Peace Palace in each of the 240 largest cities in the United States.[40] (Primary: peacepalace.org) The goal of each Peace Palace is to serve as a home of peace for each city.[7] (OK--Sec source)Some Peace Palaces built by GCWP are leased to Maharishi Vedic Education Development Corporation for courses in the Transcendental Meditation technique and related programs such as Maharishi Spas, Maharishi Vedic Vibration Technology and herbal food supplements.[40][41](OK--Sec source)The buildings are planned to be two-story, white, buildings of about 10,000 to 12,000 square feet (1,100 m2) and are intended to be replacements for rented spaces being used in "more than 200 locations" across the U.S.A. Their appearance has been described as an "Indian temple crossed with a Southern plantation mansion" and is intended to be a "visual brand" for the organization.[42] (OK--Sec source)

9) Under "Global Reconstruction"

The Maharishi's Global Reconstruction Program for Permanent World Peace entails replacing the existing cities and buildings of the world with plans and structures that follow Maharishi Sthapatya Veda principles. The project is estimated by the Global Country of World Peace (GCWP) Finance Minister to cost $300 trillion.[55] (Primary: globalgoodnews.com) The Director of the Global Country of World Peace's Financial Capital, Paul Potter, said "we hope to be able to rebuild the whole world to be fortune-oriented buildings, to be heaven on earth".[56] (OK--sec)

10) Under "List of rajas"

There is a long list of "Rajas" and "Ministers" of the GCWP at the end and it is supported only by primary sources. On first thought, that would seem to be OK, being a "straightforward descriptive statement of facts." However, perhaps not, since WP:BLPPRIMARY advises using “Exercise extreme caution in using primary sources” when living persons are involved [11] and since the sources in question are websites of non-profit organizations, with which there could be a problem with the reliability of the information. Even if the information was correct in the first place, how confident can we be that the information continues to be current? This list would seem a good candidate for deletion also. EMP (talk) 01:11, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi EMP, thanks for following up on this. My thoughts are:

I've removed the first sentence and primary source leaving behind one short sentence stating the GCWP mission.
In my opinion the entire text you cite in example #2 should be removed. Its self reported and self indulgent info. Global good news website is filled with pages and pages of non-notable content like that. Personally, I don't think it belongs here on WP.
I think this is OK since there is an article on RAAM and with secondary sources. But we should replace the primary source with a secondary one.
This is info that is redundant to the RAAM article. I say take it out and provide let the readers use the Wikilink in the prior sentence if they want more info.
Peace Govt. Remove all of it. Its not notable and smacks of self promotion.
Remove all the text in bold and trim first sentence cited by secondary source. Take out MMY residence and MF owned etc. That's coatrack info.
I say remove everything except the first sentence "Maharishi Vedic City is the "Capital of the Global Country for World Peace". Again what we have here is a lot of coatrack info already provided in the TM movement and other articles.
Remove PP info cited to primary source
Remove the self promo info from the Global Good News website
I think its gratuitous fluff since none of the Rajas are notable people. My recommendation is to remove the entire list.

-- — Keithbob • Talk • 01:30, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good points. Yes, on 2nd look, I agree with you on point 3. The basic idea in that para seems to supportable by secondary sources. Re: 10, I agree that the issue of notabiity is the most important one here. EMP (talk) 00:35, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad you removed the list of Rajas. I should have cited this before but better late than never. WP:NPF says: Many Wikipedia articles contain material on people who are not well known, even if they are notable enough for their own article. In such cases, exercise restraint and include only material relevant to the person's notability, focusing on high-quality secondary sources. Its seems to me that aside from being non-notable, that list was a minor BLP violation as their were no secondary sources supporting the naming of those individuals. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 06:49, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Remove additional content using primary sources?

There are still 6 TM websites being used as sources in the article.

The Global Country of World Peace (GCWP) was declared by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the founder of Transcendental Meditation, on Vijayadashami (Victory Day), October 7, 2000.[1]
He described it as "a country without borders for peace-loving people everywhere".[2][3]
The GCWP's intention is to have a parental and nourishing role in the family of nations.[7]
The US Peace Government has announced plans to build a national capital near Smith Center, Kansas in Washington Township, Smith County, near the geographic center of America.[19]
Larger plans include the development of the 175 acres (0.71 km2), purchased at a cost of $750,000 into an "environmentally friendly retreat" that will include 150 to 200 rooms for professional meditators, according to the project director, Raja Bob LoPinto.[27][28][29]
Peace Palaces have been completed in the U.S. cities of Bethesda, Maryland, Houston and Austin, Texas, Fairfield, Iowa, St. Paul, Minnesota and Lexington, Kentucky.[31][32][33]

In some cases they are just being used as supportive sources. Do we need TM websites as supportive sources (in bold above) if we already have a secondary source?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 07:05, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Quite right, I have just removed these--article is better off without these sources. In the first case, I substituted a secondary source. EMP (talk) 23:10, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Removed rewrite lead tag--see expln on talk

I removed the "rewrite lead" tag because I have added several points to the lead section that I think makes it an adequate summary-introduction to the article as a whole. If anyone has suggestions for further revision, please let me know. EMP (talk) 23:05, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Good work! I've removed some of the excess detail (dates and dollar figures) per WP:LEAD which says to summarize.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 19:57, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to merge RAAM into this article

Please join the discussion at the RAAM talk page here.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 19:17, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Micronation

>The GCWP made unsuccessful attempts to obtain sovereign land as a micronation during the years 2000 to 2002.

So is it a micronation? Zambelo; talk 00:27, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] "Mystic's followers want own country". CNN. June 6, 2001.

[2] "Costa Rica: Secta divide a indígenas". La Fogata. July 24, 2002.

[Pisciotta-3] Pisciotta, Marla (January 1, 2009). "Meditation Retreat Planned for Hampshire County". State Journal.

[4] Purusha Capital 39°23′18″N 78°37′35″W / 39.3883°N 78.6264°W / 39.3883; -78.6264 (Purusha Capital)

[5] "Ads for sex aids, gravestones gravely find their way despite spam blockers". Daily Breeze. Torrance, Calif. August 30, 2005. p. A.2.

[Hamill-6] Hamill, Sean D. (February 22, 2008). "Sites for 'Maharishi Effect' (Welcome to Parma) Spread Across U.S." The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved November 15, 2009.

[mou.org-7] Craig Ridgley, Safire Internet Solutions, http://safire.net. "Maharishi Open University". Mou.org. Archived from the original on May 17, 2008. Retrieved November 15, 2009. {{cite web}}: External link in |author= (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)^{[failed verification]}

[Official_Web_Site-8] "Global Country of World Peace". Global Country of World Peace. October 15, 2002. Retrieved November 15, 2009.

[TOI-9] Mani, Rajiv (February 11, 2008). "Tony Nader to lead Maharishi's mission [India]". The Times of India. New Delhi.

[dailymail.com-10] "Meditation Retreat Planned for Panhandle". Charleston Daily Mail. Associated Press. January 7, 2009. Archived from the original on September 5, 2010.

[11] "Mystic's followers want own country". CNN. June 6, 2001.

[McGirk-12] McGirk, Jan (June 8, 2001). The Independent. London (UK). p. 17. {{cite news}}: Missing or empty |title= (help); Unknown parameter |unused_data= ignored (help)

[13] "Freedom in the World – Tuvalu (2002)". UNHCR. 18 December 2001. Archived from the original on September 5, 2010. Retrieved January 11, 2010.

[maharishiglobalfinancing.org-14] "Global Development Currency: RAAM" (PDF) (Press release). November 14, 2006. Retrieved September 5, 2010.

[globalfinancialcapitalny.org-15] "GFCNY: Poverty Removal". Globalfinancialcapitalny.org. Archived from the original on September 5, 2010. Retrieved November 15, 2009.

[news.bbc.co.uk-16] Rossingh, Danielle (February 5, 2003). "Dutch give nod to 'guru currency'". BBC. Retrieved November 15, 2009.

[McGirk-17] Cite error: The named reference McGirk was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[18] "Mystic's followers want own country". CNN. June 6, 2001.

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