Talk:Giara horse

I don't think this is the Sardinian Anglo-Arab, so tossed the merge tag, but it may be the "Sardinian pony" referenced in the other article, so am cross-linking accordingly until we can get more data. Montanabw^(talk) 05:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

subspecies or breed???

in the italian wikipedia, and also in some books and web sites is referred the Giara's Horse as a subspecies of the equus caballus, and has also a specific Trinomial name, Equus caballus giarae, so it's a subspecies not a breed! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.10.227.247 (talk) 17:20, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, You can't use one wiki as a source for another wiki. And unless you can find an outside source on taxonomy that is verifiable and recent, this is probably just the wishful thinking of aficionados. Once upon a time, they also theorized that the Arabian horse was a "subspecies" -- equus agilis. I have books that say so, and I can find web sites that say so, but it's total hooey. In fact, every breed with either extensive feral roots or ancient bloodlines at some point or another claims to be a whole different subspecies of horse, and 9.999 times out of 10, it's total hooey. Other than the domestic horse, equus ferus caballus, the Tarpan (equus ferus ferus) and the Przewalski's horse (equus ferus przewalskii) are separate subspecies of equus (genus). As far as I know, that's it. On wikipedia, only the main subspecies of equidae use the taxobox, the rest use the horse breeds infobox. We can discuss this further, but you need to provide sources that pass muster at Wikipedia Verifiability. I will touch bases with one of our resident taxonomists to double check, but I must say that I think your sources are incorrect. Thanks. Montanabw^(talk) 03:55, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Ok, Montana asked me to come over. This is a know issue. Years ago, before the age of molecular studies, it was in fashion to describe each and every breed that looked different enough as a separate subspecies. The giara is one of them, but molecular studies solidly place this breeds in between the other italian breeds, see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15496286 for one study. I went over to the italian wiki and fixed this issue there also. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 04:38, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Move warring

Okay, I have this page has now been moved half a dozen times and sorry, can you kids work it out here first. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 18:47, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I hope the issue has been settled but I am willing to debate further with the other editor as needed. However I think part of the issue is that all these Italian breeds have the word "Cavallo" (horse) or a related term (Cavallino -- little horse, etc.) as the first part of many official Italian name, hence the capitalization question. We have some work to do with figuring out proper Anglicization of certain breed names. There is also a horse/pony question on this particular article, though I hope that was resolved by source material stating that the breed is under 14.2 but is classified as a horse due to phenotype characteristics. We have a related discussion at pony over what is a horse and what is a pony, all of which is probably just one of those never-ending debates. Montanabw^(talk) 23:37, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, let me say this. (Admin hat on) I hope you guys first get agreement about the name and wait with moving a bunch of p-ages till this is solved. It is not a major issue if the name is incorrect for a while. A lot of moving is far less desirable. Maybe this caps discussion of non-english names should be moved to WP:EQUINE so that it gets resolved once and for all. (Admin hat off).-- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 00:21, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

The issue was settled long ago at WPEQ, (as in a couple years ago, at least) we now have a new user who disagrees with the applicability of wikipedia capitalization conventions (primarily the way WP doesn't like title case very much) to some breed names. I've been cleaning up the horse breed articles on this for a while in fits and starts. But part of the new issue is over breed names in Italian versus how they would be placed here in English and if "horse" has to be an integral part of the name if its name includes "Cavallo" in Italian (as in, for example, a Friesian horse can be called a Friesian, but an American Quarter Horse would never be called a "Quarter"). Know any people fluent in both Italian and English who could be consulted for additional views? You? Montanabw^(talk) 03:22, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, well I'm that 'new user', I imagine. If so, I'm perhaps better placed to know what I agree or disagree with than anyone else. As already explained about 15 times in various places, I have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with the naming convention, or editor consensus, or whatever you want to call it, for horse breeds. It's been explained to me, I understand it, it seems eminently logical and sensible, and I have applied it carefully in articles I have created and worked on. Nevertheless, the articles that relate to Italian breeds where the word for horse is an integral part of the breed name have been systematically moved, by someone who either does not agree with, or has chosen to ignore, that same naming convention, or editor consensus, or whatever you want to call it, for horse breeds.

For an official and authoritative (but not necessarily error-free) list of some of the relevant breeds (with valuable data which I will incorporate in the relevant articles in time), please see [1], where it will be noted that some breed names start with 'Cavallo', 'Cavallino' or 'Pony', while others do not. In the former case the word for horse (or pony) is integral to the breed name, while in the latter it is not. For an example of a capitalised breed name please see Bongianni, Maurizio (1988). Simon & Schuster's Guide to Horses and Ponies. Simon & Schuster, Inc.. pp. 156. ISBN 0-671-66068-3, page 30, "Catria Horse". Bongianni is, as you might guess from the name, Italian. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:52, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Characteristics?

I don't know where all this unreferenced stuff came from, but it looks as if someone has run the breed standard through a translation engine and then done some highly fanciful and extremely inaccurate original research on the result, with predictably laughable consequences. I suggest deleting the whole section until and unless it can be properly referenced. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:59, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

The stuff I added was sourced based on the links you provided. If you don't like those bits, then fix it and quit being snarky and obnoxious. The unsourced stuff came from somewhere else, though I may have done some rough copyedits to make it comprehensible. We have had someone with somewhat minimal English start several of the Italian breed articles, and they did sound like a babelfish translation, but it was a start and worth thanks for making the effort. You can clean these up all you want, I have other fish to fry, as there are over 350 horse breed articles and several thousand articles tagged for WPEQ (about 1500 of them are on my watchlist, I probably review 40-50 a day, luckily most are either bot edits or vandals, so can be dealt with in short order). Montanabw^(talk) 04:15, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

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