Talk:George X of Kartli

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Auf diesem Bild ist nicht George X von Kartli, sondern George III von Imereti dargestellt. Quelle: დონ ქრისტოფორო დე კასტელის ალბომი, წინასიტყვაობითა და შენიშვნებით გამოსცა ბ. გიორგაძემ, თბილისი, 1977 წ. Entschuldigung für Deutsch. Deu. 19:24, 30 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)

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Requested move 6 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved George X to George X (talk show host), and retarget leftover redirect to George X of Kartli. Consensus is strongly in favor of vacating the talk show host from the George X title. However, the more contentious point was whether to move the monarch to the new title, or disambiguate. Consensus has determined that the monarch is the primary topic. However, it was also argued that the less-detailed name would not be helpful, and that showing the country is of interest to readers. Similar to how George XI is a redirect to George XI of Kartli and George XII is a redirect to George XII of Georgia, the leftover George X will be a redirect to the same title with "Kartli", and will include a hatnote to the talk show host, in line with WP:ONEOTHER. (closed by non-admin page mover) Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 08:29, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

George X of Kartli → George X
George X → George X (talk show host)

– Historical significance of a monarch; WP:PRIMARYTOPIC; WP:SOVEREIGN. An emperor ✖ 19:31, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose/Neutral 1st move, but STRONGLY support 2nd move. I'd say there's no 100%-clear primary topic for this title, and since primary topic swaps are often messy, I'd recommend having a disambiguation page at the basename as the safest bet for now. Paintspot Infez (talk) 19:59, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings Paintspot Infez! Thank you for voting. How's a king not a primary topic v. a television host? An emperor ✖ 20:07, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, they're both super-brief pages that usually get a single-digit number of pageviews a day. (Also, all the other Kartli kings named George have their pages at "George __ of Kartli" instead of just "George __". With the vast number of Georges who've been kings of regions of Georgia's triarchy, and given how their numbering gets a bit wonky at times, I think it's helpful to keep the "of Kartli" in the name.) I guess I'd probably say I'm somewhat NEUTRAL on the first move (instead of outright fully opposing it), but I definitely support the second move. Paintspot Infez (talk) 22:55, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Paintspot Infez! You are correct that 'of "country"' titled articles for monarchs are the majority but when there is a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:CONSISTENT, WP:CONCISE and WP:SOVEREIGN, the shorter version is utilized on Wikipedia. For example, Henry IV of England and Henry IV of France with "Henry IV" being a disamb page, while George III, George IV, Ismail I, Ardashir I etc. are shortened as they are WP:PTOPIC/CONSICE. Regards, An emperor ✖ 23:16, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have, however, retained "of country" for monarchs like Edwards/Richards, Christians/Fredericks, and others, again because the title that best meets the WP:CONCISE criterion is not necessarily the title that best balances all the criteria, as both policy and practice make clear. Per policy, titles should be recognizable to someone who's familiar with but no expert in the area. Also per policy, we prioritize the interests of general readers over those of specialists or editors when selecting a title. Removing the clarifier fails on both counts, and I see don't see any arguments that the proposed change aids our readers. More broadly, the most WP:CONSISTENT approach for sovereign articles like these would be simply to retain the clarifier, since this alternative seems to be leading to a less internally consistent mix of forms. ╠╣uw [talk] 12:26, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support in line with WP:NCROY as the king is the clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, with a factor of 5 times more page views than the rather obscure talk show host [1] as well as far greater long term significance. Rosbif73 (talk) 09:55, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support at the least there is no primary topic. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:26, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the first, support the 2nd. Make a dab page. Srnec (talk) 21:14, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the George X of Kartli move, since showing the country is important in the interests of our readers and necessary to make the subject of such articles sufficiently clear (NCROY notwithstanding). Removing it isn’t an improvement for our readers, which policy instructs is our priority. Note too that the most concise unambiguous title is not necessarily the best one (see US, UK, Cézanne, Obama, 103rd Congress, DTs, Bothell, AI, etc.) I support the George X (talk show host) move. ╠╣uw [talk] 17:51, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral on 1st, Support 2nd (although George X (broadcaster) may be a better disambiguator). Clearly not primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:46, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings Necrothesp! Isn't a king the primary topic vs. a talk show host? Regards, An emperor ✖ 04:31, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Probably, yes, although he is a fairly obscure king. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:51, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom, NCROY, CONCISION, COMMONNAME and PRIMARYTOPIC (per page views from Rosbif73). I don’t see any serious rebuttal to the argument that the king is the primary topic, so opposition to the first is not policy-based and should be weighed accordingly. —В²C ☎ 07:44, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support both moves. The king is the clear primary topic on both counts. — Amakuru (talk) 15:34, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.