Talk:George Hoyningen-Huene

Tags

Please do not insert frivolous 'citation needed' tags for things like the sun rises in the east unless there's a genuine reason to dispute a claim. This is an encyclopedia, not a time-wasters' forum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sartoresartus (talk • contribs) 13:42, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:31, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Line deleted

I deleted the link to Peter Berlin wiki page, because it does not conform the verifibity rule of Wikipedia see [1] and [2]
Benwik 19:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hoyningen-Huene.jpg

Image:Hoyningen-Huene.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Death

Since he died in his sixties, what was his cause of death? Thank you, Maikel (talk) 09:44, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

COI, etc

This article is pretty awful. Very little within it was sourced, even before this edit, which added a lot more, with the edit summary The George Hoyningen-Huene Estate Archives, the legal and rightful owner of his estate, is now set up in Stockholm Sweden with a vision to give George Hoyningen-Huene the recognition he deserves, and a new updated text was acquired. The new text contained such stuff as:

For example, when Vogues legendary editor-in-chief [https://www.vogue.com/slideshow/anna-wintour-favorite-images-photos Dame Anna Wintour DBE choses her favourite Vogue covers], George Hoyningen-Huene’s ''Divers'' is one of them.

Readers don't need to be told that she's either "legendary" or a dame. And the added text told the reader that H-H:

became friend with the jet-setters of the era; Coco Chanel, Salvador Dali, Lee Miller, Man Ray etc

"Jet-setters" sounds curiously dismissive, making them sound like Kardashians or similar. I can't comment on Chanel, I'm whelmed by Dalí, but Miller and Man Ray produced work of lasting value (and surely would have done so even if "locked down" in Paris). And the added text told us:

Hoyningen-Huene was someone with a personal quest in life, in which he was able to bring to fruition an unmatched talent for color, form, light, shadows and lines.

Note the unmatched. That's an opinion, and a remarkably strong one. I want to know which disinterested authority on photography has expressed it -- as a considered opinion, not as boosterism.

I therefore reverted the addition of the new text.

I'd not previously heard of the George Hoyningen-Huene Estate Archives, but the description "the legal and rightful owner of his estate" makes it sound oddly insistent. (Is the ownership being challenged?) I've no reason to think that the organization is disinterested; indeed, quite the reverse. Anyone working for it and contemplating editing this article should read, first, Wikipedia:Plain and simple conflict of interest guide, and then Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. After that, suggestions on this talk page for edits would be welcome. -- Hoary (talk) 13:21, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

I understand the deletion of the previous reference to "The Divers" given the form of which it was written. However, I do think there should be some reference to "The Divers" as it's almost certainly his most famous photograph and one of the most recognized photographs generally. I think it would be a good addition to the article if someone more familiar than myself with writing in wikipedia could add it. 2604:3D09:348A:4700:D46B:181C:3645:44E4 (talk) 16:22, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Agneta-fischer-at-the-opera-1931.jpg (discussion)
• Carole Lombard.jpg (discussion)
• Greece, Athens.jpg (discussion)
• Josephine Baker 1929.jpg (discussion)

Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:51, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Are George Hoyningen-Huene and George Wrangel the same person?

User:MH032 has averred that George Hoyningen-Huene and Baron George Wrangell (the Hathaway shirt man) are the same person.

But, I'm not seeing any evidence of this. Apparently they were both German Baltic aristocrats (both sons of Barons), both named George, both born in September 1900 (altho three days apart, according to their articles), both White émigrés after the Civil War, both lived in America at least at times, and both were involved in photography to some extent (altho one as a photographer, one a model).

Quite a coincidence, if coincidence it is. And it is, it says here.

I wrote the George Wrangel article, and in researching it (only on the internet, granted) I found not a whisper of indication that George Wrangell was George Hoyningen-Huene. Nor do the refs for this article (two, that I could access) mention George Wrangell.

And I mean they had entirely different last names, and entirely different careers. One died in 1968, one in 1969 -- like their putative birthdates, close, but no cigar. On the circumstantial evidence, well its almost a given that they would emigrate, and America was a not uncommon destination I suppose. And there were a number of Baltic Barons, two of them having sons named George in the same month is not that remarkable.

Lack of proof is not proof of anything, and altho it would have been hard, I suppose if the person was determined to have two separate identities he might have been able to pull it off. After all, for George Wrangel's life between Russia and his modeling stint, I have only very thin evidence -- one brief mention, in Time. It is here, but those links are down right now, and so is the Internet Archive, so I can't verify. And googling George Hoyningen-Huene under images brings up no photos of him, so we can't compare looks.

And one can suppose that George Hoyningen-Huene was by chance indeed invited to be the Hathaway model, but wanted to do it incognito (not unreasonable) and invented a name and persona as a cover. If George Wrangell did exist, it'd be unremarkable if they knew each other, being contemporanious Baltic German Barons, and perhaps they agreed on the ruse. Not utterly impossible, except -- You can't be a model for a major ad campaign on the lowdown. Eyepatch or no, people who knew George Hoyningen-Huene would see right off that the Hathaway man was him, if he had been. It beggars the imagination that this would not have been noted and be somewhere in sources.

Interesting theory, but we'd need some sources. Herostratus (talk) 02:01, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

My initial thoughts that they were the same person is wrong. I should have looked a little deeper!

They were both Baltic Barons. They had the same family connection in that George Hoyningen-Huene's sister Baroness Elizabeth Hoyningen-Heune was married to George Wrangell's father Nikolai. This was a second marriage. George Wrangell's mother was Maria and George born "Georg" was the 6th child. Three sisters; Maria, Wera and Xenia. He had an older brother Vladimir who died in 1945, WW2. His brother Nikolaus died in 1901 before Georg was born.

His father Baron Nikolai Von Wrangell (1869 - 1927), belonging to the Estonian Knighthood, reached high military rank. He was adjutant to the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovitch (1878–1918), rose to the rank of Colonel as Commander of the 16th Irkutsk Hussar Regiment, and finally to Major General on Grand Duke Michael's staff. The external link listed on Baroness Elizabeth Hoyningen-Huene's wiki page as a pdf called The Last Motor Race of The Empire makes an interesting read.

Both George's clearly had interesting lives, born into the developing turmoil of the Russian Revolution.

I hope the above clears up my initial thoughts and adds some extra context. MH032 (talk) 10:12, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

It does indeed, and thanks. I think there's material here that can be used in Wrangell's article, at least. Herostratus (talk) 17:26, 15 October 2024 (UTC)