Talk:Garden room

Early history

I won't be able to work on this for some time, myself, but I can suggest that something might be added about the view of some sources that early versions of garden rooms go back to Ancient Rome. There was past discussion of this, with some links to sources, at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sissinghurst Castle Garden/archive1#Support from Chiswick Chap. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:26, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for that link. I handily found Jenny Uglow's excellent book directly saying Pliny had them. That discussion misses the medieval period (which I may expand on) and the Baroque. The trouble is some writers (Hobhouse for example) seem to be rather snooty about the term & avoid using it, plus the concept itself is incapable of a really hard definition. I'd include Jekyll with a really solid ref - the English Heritage one might do it perhaps. What about the straightforwardly mad Elvaston Castle? Johnbod (talk) 20:07, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

I could perhaps look into it, but it would take me some time. I'm not sure what your question about Elvaston is? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:12, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Whether to include it. The Victorian gardens were highly compartmented, on a grand scale. Johnbod (talk) 00:21, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The photos on our page about it certainly look more like grand lawns than garden rooms, but I'd have to do some research to know more about the more intimate parts of the gardens. I'd just be guided by avoiding any original research. If there are sources that you can quote that say Elvaston had garden rooms, then by all means cite them. But if there are no such sources, I'd omit it. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 13:17, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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Sissinghurst Castle Garden

• ... that Vita Sackville-West described the garden rooms she created at Sissinghurst as "a series of privacies...all a series of escapes from the world, giving the impression of cumulative escape"? Source: Uglow, Jenny, A Little History of British Gardening, 2004, Chatto & Windus, ISBN 0701169281 Quoted p. 253
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Francis Martin (biblical scholar)
  • Comment: New, from redirect

Created by Johnbod (talk). Self-nominated at 18:19, 17 January 2022 (UTC).

• ALT1 ... that Vita Sackville-West described the garden rooms she created at Sissinghurst as "a series of escapes from the world, giving the impression of cumulative escape"?

  I've suggested ALT1 as being a little shorter than ALT0. It differs in having the first part of the quotation removed. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:28, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

• I shall review this. Storye book (talk) 17:41, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Thank you, Johnbod, for this fascinating article about historical gardens. A few notes:

• As it happens I have recently uploaded some engravings from the Gott Collection by Johannes Kip (category here) which may include some garden rooms as you suggest in your article. If you would like me to create categories designed to connect his garden room pictures to your existing garden room category, please let me know which images need connecting (I am not qualified to spot C18 garden rooms).

Meanwhile, this article is absolutely fine, and passes DYK requirements, and this nomination should have a green tick, if I were feeling lazy.

• However, firstly I think we could make the article conform a little more to WP house style, and thereby look a little more professional - hopefully that should not require too much effort. Firstly, the header is supposed to summarise the main text, but currently it contains material which is not in the main text (or have I missed something?) So could you please check that all facts from the header are repeated and cited in the main text?
• Secondly, the history section is currently a wall of text, which is daunting to some readers and entails a lot of scrolling on your phone. So it needs breaking up with subheadings. Subheadings also encourage other editors to put their additional facts in the right place, which cuts down the creator-irritation factor. Subheadings in this case could cover time periods, place/continent, or other aspects. (That might mean a little rearrangement of the history section, but that can be a good thing if it makes it easier for the reader to take in differentiated aspects of your choosing).

You are entitled to disagree with this, and if so I shall give it the green tick, but honestly I think it would work better with the above improvements. Storye book (talk) 18:17, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

• Thanks. I've used the Kip images, and categorized the most relevant ones. As you say, these are not DYK points & I have to say I don't agree with them. The lead section has referenced material to distinguish the subject from other, different ones, which are linked. In a short lead this is fine. I can't agree the history section is "a wall of text", & I think one of the worst features of many poorer articles on WP is a proliferation of short sections. Mobile phone users could always try reading instead of scrolling through (to what exactly, as this is the last section)! Johnbod (talk) 18:54, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Well I've grudgingly added sub-heads to the history. Now mobile phone users can be in and out in seconds. Johnbod (talk) 19:10, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

• No worries, Johnbod, we all do our best for WP, and thank you for your patience and the subheadings. This nomination is good to go. Storye book (talk) 19:49, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

ALT1 to T:DYK/P4

Was ...

... The Secret Garden a garden room? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:20, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Is this a facetious question, or are you suggesting making an "in literature" section? The garden that provided some inspiration was at Great Maytham Hall. That garden appears to have been a walled garden. If walls were used to enclose portions of the overall garden, that would clearly fit with this page, but if the entire thing had a wall around it, that would require some editorial judgment and checking of source material. I looked at the available images at Commons: [1], and they don't look particularly room-like, but it's still possible. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:13, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

I haven't read the book, but I get the impression it is rather too large, and wholly walled. Sometimes you see "secret garden" as a synonym for "garden room" room though. Johnbod (talk) 03:17, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Many apologies for forgetting all about my post. No, it wasn't facetious, but a tad informal, I admit. Yes, it was wholly walled (from the memory of reading it long ago; that's why I had asked). I do have the book lying around somewhere. No, there's no need for a literature subsection. Thanks, both. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:28, 26 February 2022 (UTC)