Talk:Furlana

History and language

Sorry for my English. First, you can check on any source about Friuli that it has never been a "Slavonic region". Maybe you were talking about Venetian Slovenia, which is only a small part of Friuli. Second, your source must have not understood anything about the concept of grammatical gender. "Polesana" does not mean "Woman from Pola" just as "L'Eroica" does not mean "The Heroic Woman", even if such a translation is grammatically correct. The names of folk dances, not only in Italy AFAIK, often point to their geographical origin, anyway give a look here, so Polesana means "[Dance] from Pola" and nothing else, in Italian. Regarding the proposed Croatian meaning, please consider that even if "fine" is an English word, "finestra" is not, so as long as you say that "polesa" and not "polesana" is a Croatian word (consider that the formation of adjectives is different between Croatian and Italian), you don't have an argument to support that it's a Croatian word. I think your source is expert in musicology, but absolutely not in History or Linguistics. 79.45.234.180 (talk) 18:39, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Sometimes unfortunately, "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth; that is, whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true" (Wikipedia:Verifiability, line 1). We have here two sources (Daniel Heartz 1999 and Meredith Ellis Little, 2001) who may well not understand anything about grammatical gender, and all the rest, but they say these things, and you have not offered a source to contradict them. So far as the Croatian language is concerned, if you will take the trouble to look in Heartz's article, you will find that he is taking into account the opinion of at least one other person, whose grasp of Croation may or may not have been any better than his. Your edit has removed this source (together with what you regard as its error), but has not substituted another source in its place. Although I am inclined to agree with you, I have no choice but to revert your edit again, and ask that you find better sources than the ones offered. I should add that it is important in such cases that the erroneous source be left in place, and shown to be in error, otherwise someone else is going to "discover" it in the future, and the process will start all over again.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:35, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

I see your point, but it's quite difficult to find a source to say that something that would never be considered a possibility is really false. I mean, how can I find a source that say that in Italian "Polesana" means only "[Dance] from Pola" in this case, if noone would ever say the contrary? Anyway, I was more interested in making clear what Friuli is and has been, and I found a source. Best regards, 79.50.238.131 (talk) 22:21, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

It's a good source, though a few tweaks were necessary. (For example, when citing a later edition—in this case the one from 2002—it is that edition that should be referred to in both the text and the list of references. If it is important to know when the first edition was published, that can be added at the end of the bibliography entry, as an annotation.) Although I speak Italian well enough to know that Heartz's claim about the meaning of the title "Polesana" in that language seemed to me at best reckless and perhaps even foolish (and in fairness to him I should perhaps amend the wording so as to exactly quote his words, which are "'Polesana' can mean in Italian a woman from Pola"), because I have no Croatian at all I must accept the alternative etymology, which Prof Heartz took from Paul Nettl's article "Forlana," in the old Musik in Geschichte un Gegenwart 4 (1955), 520-23.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:52, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

It's better for sure now. Thank you, 79.50.11.9 (talk) 21:08, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Polesana

Did anyone consider thet in Italian "Polesana" does not mean only " originary from Pola" but also "originary from Polesine"? Polesine is a part of Veneto, and is as far from Friuli as Pola, roughly. Altough I know Friulians have mixed latin and slavonic origins (even if Friulian is definitely a latin language), I do not think Pola/Pula had ever much contacts with Friuli, whose inabitants Slavonic roots come from Slovenes rather than from Croatians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.51.245.9 (talk) 19:32, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't know if anyone has considered this but it would be necessary to find a source that actually makes this connection with specific reference to the furlana, if this were to be added to this article.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:18, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

The Papal Connection

The link given below the article says, among other things: "So needless to say there was a slight effort by some to revive the Furlana in the mid 1910s thanks to the Pope of the time and it did gain some attention for a brief period. It became known as the "Pope's Dance or the La Popette" and while originally the dance was not done using the embrace of the Tango, it was being sold and danced as such, just not as sensuously and said to be a mixture of the steps of the Polka, Maxixe and Tango with the original Furlana steps thrown in like the Intro of the dance, etc." And the article on Pius X says: "In November 1913, Pope Pius X declared tango dancing as immoral and off-limits to Catholics. Later, in January 1914, when tango proved to be too popular to declare off-limits, Pope Pius X tried a different tack, mocking tango as "one of the dullest things imaginable," and recommending people take up dancing the furlana, a Venetian dance, instead." So, it would be worthy to mention that furlana was endorsed by one of the most conservative popes ever. --82.131.109.135 (talk) 13:56, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

References