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2010 comments by User:Huw Powell

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I suggest forking or splitting to the modern "skillet meal" which is referred to late in this article. Far from a "TV dinner", I think they should have their own "see also" article. Also, the last section in very UK-centric. Is their a template I can use to whine about that? Huw Powell (talk) 03:30, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I don't think this talk page should have been archived. The archive is small, and contains threads I think are still currently pertinent. Huw Powell (talk) 03:36, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

UK

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Birdseye marketed the frozen dinner for one in the UK from 1960s. It was in a covered aluminium tray which you lifted one corner to allow the Yorkshire pudding to rise. In the UK they were never referred to as TV dinner's though. (86.129.36.187 (talk) 19:14, 27 February 2011 (UTC))[reply]

Pewter Tray

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I see there in the history section, this line "the pewter tray with aluminum foil covering could be heated directly in the oven..."

Is this true? Were "TV dinners" ever packaged in pewter trays? Isn't pewter kind of heavy and stiff? I realize that pewter is not particularly expensive, but is it too expensive to be used as a disposable container? I imagine if pewter TV dinner trays were built like pewter beer mugs then people might have saved them for other use. Unless you can make a pewter foil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:140:8A00:2890:3D0E:DC30:530D:E06E (talk) 02:35, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. Pewter would also melt at about the temperature that TV dinners were heated. I've updated the page. Dan Bloch (talk) 06:08, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Original research?

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The History section of this article has had a tag added to it that claims it may have original research. Unfortunately, since the section already has several sources cited (at least five), it is exceedingly difficult to ascertain which claims the tagger considers to be original research. There is one statement "Swanson far exceeded its expectations, and ended up selling more than 10 million of these dinners in the first year of production." that (appropriately) has a "citation needed" tag on it, but that's not original research-looking, it's lack of sourcing.

Then why post this statement at all? Did someone just pull it out of the air? It certainly reads that way, along with all the other breezy "facts" sprinkled through the article. Without a source, these statements have no validity or value. 73.173.114.38 (talk) 03:57, 15 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly, when I see editors whose tagging of articles constitute in the neighborhood of 50% of their total edits, I wonder if they're helping us or not. At the very least, when someone comes along and leaves a nebulous tag like that on an article, I think they should be required to explain what their concern is. Of course, some tags do not need an explanation. For example, if a tag says that an article has "no sources, and indeed, it has none, then I can understand what's the problem. But tagging like this, without leaving an explanation, is just rude and ignorant. HuskyHuskie (talk) 04:35, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

TV dinners are generic and international. Therefore in referring to dessert options purely American desserts - "brownies" and "apple cobblers" should be avoided.Royalcourtier (talk) 01:02, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

When did Swanson stop using the name "TV Dinner"?

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Article says 1962; here is a Swanson ad from May 1968 which uses it. Relgif (talk) 20:48, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My memory says that the term "TV Dinner" was still being used in the 1970s, but I have nothing to back it up but gray hairs. HuskyHuskie (talk) 03:39, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with History Section

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Specifically the origin of the name. The claim that it's because of the shape may have a cite but it's obviously false: The original TV Dinner had three triangular sections, it did not have a "sidebar" arrangement like a television. This is even shown in the images used in the article. I can't access the cite to see if it's being misread or misrepresented, but there's a contradictory statement from Gerald Thomas here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzlkO8LIWrs

I don't know if it's a good enough source but the fact the remains that the article as it stands states something which is clearly false.

The photo, however (despite the caption) is not of a 1950s era TV dinner but a 1960s era one -- with the added 4th compartment for a dessert, as stated elsewhere in the article (and as accords with my personal memory). I can't speak to the very first TV dinners, but in the years immediately before the 4-compartment ones, they did have three roughly triangular compartments. --Gambaguru (talk) 03:10, 29 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Last foil tray?

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It is mentioned that the first non-foil ("microwave-safe") tray was introduced in 1986. When was the last foil tray sold? How long did it take for the entire industry to switch from trays designed for "regular ovens" to those designed for microwaves? 24.14.200.215 (talk) 16:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A number of oven-only ready meals are still sold in foil trays. I doubt they will go away any time soon. — Smjg (talk) 13:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Swanson appears to have exited the frozen dinner market

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While following a couple of the article's external links, I noticed that Pinnacle Foods has dropped the Swanson name from its Hungry Man line of frozen dinners, per the expiration of the 10-year brand-licensing agreement with Campbell Soup (Swanson's parent company). See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swanson#Other_frozen_dinners

Details on this might be added to the History section of this article, and the appropriate Swanson links updated. — DennisDallas (talk) 00:08, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Move (2012)

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 03:05, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

TV dinner → Ready-made meal – This article doesn't specifically detail the dinner by Swanson, but rather discusses all ready-made meals, so I think we should move to the page to "Ready-made meal". KVDP (talk) 09:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • It is like band-aid or any of many other brands that started out as a brand and ended up as the defacto name of the item. Apteva (talk) 09:57, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support More in the interest of defining the article's scope. A ready-made meal can take many forms, such as takeaway food from a supermarket. This article depicts and describes such meals as well. A "TV dinner" is almost always going to mean a frozen meal prepared in a microwave, and sounds a bit informal anyway. --BDD (talk) 19:22, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose use frozen dinner instead, since not all of them are microwave dinners, though they are all now microwave dinners (early TV dinners went in the regular oven). But they are frozen. Although, "TV dinner" is still widely used. And the article specifically says that "TV dinner" has been genericized, so whatever else, it doesn't make it a Swanson term anymore. (like "Personal Computer" and the IBM PC, "aspirin" and Bayer Aspirin, etc)-- 70.24.247.127 (talk) 22:40, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not so. The Gastropub meal depicted in the article doesn't appear to be frozen, and there are many ready-made meals like that in supermarkets, at least here in the United States. I suspect these meals are more often microwaved than they are frozen, though certainly some might be eaten cold, such as salads. --BDD (talk) 22:52, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The article is not really about supermarket "takeaway food" that you can eat without reheating. Even reheated (as distinct from frozen microwave) stuff is mentioned only briefly. I agree with Apteva that it's a generic trademark. I also find many more google results for "TV dinner" than "ready made meal" (which I think includes "ready-made meal") although honestly I don't have much experience with researching COMMONNAME questions. AgnosticAphid talk 19:59, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Why would anyone think that a TV Dinner is the main article for a ready made meal? The two are quite different. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:59, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name

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It is stated as a fact that the name TV dinner came "from the shape of the tray it was served on". I always thought that it was so-called because it was often eaten in front of the TV. Can either origin be ruled out?Royalcourtier (talk) 01:05, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Royalcourtier - Could be a circular citation (from Wikipedia), but there is this. - Swiss Mister in NY (talk) 17:07, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 November 2014

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the page back to TV dinner, for the time being, per the discussion below; if another move is still desired, please feel free to initiate a new move request. Dekimasuよ! 07:18, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Prepackaged meal → TV dinner – This was an undiscussed move ("TV dinner" move to "prepackaged meal"); so should be reverted as a speedy revert. An older discussion occurs on the talk page, where no other term was found to be acceptable for various reasons. And the topic of the article is not prepackaged meals, it does not cover such things as canned meals or MRE-style meals, or ration bar meals, so it is not about "prepackaged meals" it is about TV dinner style prepackaged meals; nor should it be expanded to cover all types of prepackaged meals, since TV dinners are notable in themselves. – 67.70.35.44 (talk) 08:01, 22 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:12, 22 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment this should have gone through as a RMTR speedy revert, since the move away from "TV dinner" to "prepackaged meal" occurred without discussion, and a prior discussion already covered many alternate titles. -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 05:10, 23 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest Ready meal. It gets approaching the hits of "TV dinner" but you can don't feed it to a TV and you can have it for lunch or even breakfast - as per WP:AT. The 21st Century version might be mobile device meal. TV dinners would fit into a category such as ready meals. Gregkaye ✍♪ 23:55, 22 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. "TV dinner" used to be overwhelmingly the most common name in the US, even for generic meals. I'm not convinced that it is any longer, however. "Ready meal", on the other hand, seems to be completely unknown in the US (I don't know about elsewhere). so it's not an improvement. I'd suggest moving to frozen dinner, and refining the scope so that it only covers frozen dinners. Other types of convenience meal can be covered elsewhere. 209.211.131.181 (talk) 05:00, 23 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'd prefer to use TV dinner with a moritorium on moves for, say, a year rather than use Prepackaged meal. In the form of WP guidelines that have been chosen, rightly or wrongly, it is not Wikipedia's role to invent new terminologies.
"TV dinner" gets "About 442,000 results" on Web
"ready meal" gets "About 381,000 results" on Web
"Frozen meal" gets "About 308,000 results" on Web
"Prepackaged meal" gets "About 12,200 results" on web
ngrams in books overwhelmingly support "TV dinners"
Support a change, any change but with weak preference for Ready meal.
Gregkaye ✍♪ 13:40, 23 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support ready meal - Although I speak American-English - between "ready meal", "TV dinner", and "frozen meal" - "ready meal" is the most descriptive and general. "Prepackaged meal" would be even better, if only it was in common usage. Arbitrarily0 (talk) 04:08, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for procedural reasons (to revert an undiscussed move) and on the merits ("TV dinner" is the most common of several title options; the current title is quite uncommon). —  AjaxSmack  05:25, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is needed to simply reverse the undiscussed move. Changes to the name can be considered afterwards. Other name changes being discussed at this time simply complicate which should be a simple correction. Oh, if renamed, block further name changes. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:42, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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why "TV dinner"?

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An ad introducing the turkey dinner in the Boston Globe, March 26, 1954, includes the line "Skip cooking entirely the night of your favorite TV shows." It goes on to also suggest serving them to your bridge club and eating one when you're home alone, so the main thrust is it's a labor-saving convenience. Still, the connection is there between watching TV and not having to cook while your shows are on. Does it make sense to cook the dinner while watching TV, then stop watching to eat it? Sounds to me like the point is you cook and then you eat, all while you're watching TV, hence the name. 108.20.114.62 (talk) 01:09, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The proper approach on Wikipedia is to research name origins and (especially) document what secondary sources describe to us about how names have come about. "Sounds to me" is not only not a sufficient approach, it's also not encouraged. Additionally, 1954 may not be far enough back to get to the core, original motivations behind naming. I'm going to be trying to really investigate this "name origin" matter, as it does appear to have some possible embellishments added by people or entities who may have some motivations of self influencing them. - Swiss Mister in NY (talk) 22:47, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 24 March 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Overall, most editors oppose the previous name of "TV dinner", and the option that has the most support is Frozen meal, on the grounds that it covers other meals besides dinners. After relisting for a week, no more comments appeared so this close is final (barring appeals to WP:MR). (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 21:28, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Frozen meal → ? – Current name appears to be a non-generic trademark which was only used in a particular region. Previous move requests seem to have gotten hung up on the "common" part of WP:COMMONNAME while ignoring the "recognisable" part. The current title is not particularly descriptive and could easily refer to numerous subjects (is it a dinner you order through a teleshopping programme? Is it a meal whose recipe was provided by a celebrity chef in a TV appearance? etc.) and a more WP:PRECISE title, possibly a WP:NDESC, which allows for international WP:COMMONALITY in understanding should probably be found. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 17:39, 24 March 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Vaticidalprophet 21:13, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: this page was renamed from TV dinner to Frozen meal, then this request was reopened and relisted, which resulted in a malformed request. So this move request has been altered to reflect the title change. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 04:45, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Frozen dinner. "TV dinner" appears to be a North American name only, and not used as frequently in the 21st century. "Frozen Dinner" is easily recognizable (unlike former title Prepackaged meal and other suggestions from previous RMs). FWIW, Hungry-Man's website refers to its products as frozen dinners. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 18:07, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Frozen meal, since the article covers meals other than dinners. BD2412 T 05:08, 25 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just to throw some more chaos into the mix, the fact that there are so many alternate names listed and that no single title seems to be working out is an argument that we have two related but separate topics - the slightly more historical concept of a "TV dinner" (think aluminum pans and heated in the oven) vs. the more modern "microwave meal" which grew in popularity alongside the new appliance since you cant use metal in them ("microwave meal" I think is a better title than both "frozen meal" or "frozen dinner" both because not all are frozen nor for dinner only). I suggest keeping the article here at the current title, and moving "microwave meal" content to a new draft. -- Netoholic @ 20:21, 25 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Alternately, we can keep content concerning frozen dinners at this article, and move other content to Convenience food. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 23:39, 25 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree. The first edit was clearly about "TV dinners", and so the most consistent edit history should stay here. -- Netoholic @ 04:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the first edit it seems that this article was originally about the specific brand known as "TV Dinners". It may make sense to keep this article as an article about that topic while creating a separate article for "Microwave Meals". The current article is a mess and that's likely due to a lack of a clear subject matter. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 07:11, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Mild Oppose. "TV dinner" is extremely WP:PRECISE. It's what the word means. It's in the dictionary.[1][2] Dan Bloch (talk) 04:22, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "TV dinner". Merriam-Webster.com Dictionary. Merriam-Webster.
  2. ^ "TV dinner". Lexico UK English Dictionary. Oxford University Press. n.d.
How is it WP:PRECISE? A term appearing in the dictionary does not establish recognisability either. As I stated before, a "TV Dinner" could easily be numerous other things, and since this article doesn't refer to dinners which are made using televisions (but rather just dinners which a marketer in the 1950s believed people may want to eat while watching television) it doesn't seem appropriate. Looking at others concerns I'm starting to believe that splitting most of this article's contents into separate "Frozen meal" and "Microwave meal" articles, while retaining the current title (possibly with a change of capitalisation) for an article specifically about the original brand would be most appropriate. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 12:31, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
TV dinner is WP:PRECISE because it clearly identifies the topic of the article. The claim that it can mean other things was wrong, which is why I brought this up. The argument could still be made that "Frozen dinner" or "Frozen meal" better identify the topic. Dan Bloch (talk) 00:42, 30 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Frozen

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We are now in a ridiculous position where we have an article called Frozen meal which spends a lot of its time describing products that are not frozen meals. The dreaded "all the world's America" syndrome seems to have struck yet again, as often happens with WP food articles. Ef80 (talk) 13:31, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reading the TP archive, it seems obvious that the article merge in 2006 was a huge mistake. --Ef80 (talk) 18:01, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Ef80, how would you quantify "a lot of its time"? When I scan the article as a typical reader would (heavy attention to the lead, with much less attention to the following sections), I get the impression that maybe 10% of the content addresses non-frozen pre-packaged or ready-made meals. I would agree, generally, though -- if there are sentences or paragraphs that unduly focus on non-frozen meals (especially if unsourced), they could be trimmed or removed. There's no reason non-frozen products cannot be mentioned here, but they should not consume an undue portion of the overall content. - Swiss Mister in NY (talk) 22:53, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that the article was created to describe 'TV Dinners', a specifically 1950s American concept and originally a proprietary product. TV dinners were frozen and subsequently cooked in an oven. It's since had lots of stuff about various sorts of pre-prepared food added and merged in, some of which can be cooked in a microwave, some in a conventional oven, some in both. Some are in foil containers, some in plastic, some in cardboard. Most are not frozen. As merges have taken place, misleading redirects have been created to the article - Ready meal redirects here, despite having no connection with the American 'frozen roast dinner on a tinfoil tray' concept. Finally the article was renamed to 'Frozen meal', which is actually worse than calling it 'TV dinner'. I guess how you react to the article does depend on your perspective though - maybe it reads better if you're from the US. --Ef80 (talk) 14:45, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I was just thinking that myself. Furthermore, the lead sentence is a mess:
"A frozen meal (also called TV dinner in Canada and US), prepackaged meal, ready-made meal, ready meal (UK), frozen dinner, and microwave meal is ultra-processed food portioned for an individual."
This gives the impression that all of these terms are synonymous, which they aren't, though of course there is significant overlap. The basic definition seems to be a prepackaged food product designed to constitute a full main course of a meal, which comes ready to be heated and then served. However:
  • Not all are frozen - they are probably just as likely to be chilled. All the major UK supermarkets have extensive ranges of chilled ready meals.
  • While the majority are designed to be microwaved, many can alternatively be heated in a conventional oven, and there are even some that are not microwavable.
  • Surely being ultra-processed isn't part of the definition? It seems to me it can still be a ready meal if it's only moderately processed, or even if it's composed entirely of fresh ingredients.
  • While the majority are portioned for an individual, ready meals portioned for two people are also common. There are probably some portioned for three or four.
I've heard of the term "TV dinner" but am not familiar with it. It still isn't clear to me where the modern definition begins and ends.
I think what's needed is to tidy up the article generally to:
  • describe primarily the overall concept
  • refer to the concept by the most generic term possible, and have that term as the title
  • give the other terms as other terms, carefully distinguishing between synonyms and subcategories
The problem is that nobody seems sure what the "most generic term possible" is. "TV dinner", aside from being a bizarre term in itself, would be very confusing to us Brits, who are generally not familiar with the term and would probably interpret it as meaning something totally different: a meal prepared according to a recipe from a TV cookery programme. This may be what I thought for years the term meant. I'm not sure how readily understandable "ready meal" would be. Could "prepackaged meal" or "ready-made meal" be considered a sufficiently generic term? Wiktionary has "heat-and-eat" which isn't in common use here, but I don't know how widely used that term is in the Anglosphere as a whole. — Smjg (talk) 23:50, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Images used in the article

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The images currently adorning this article seem to be of lower quality than what we should aim for.

  • The Currywurst and fries platter has a ripped tray, and there seems to be a stray slice of sausage resting with the fries.
  • The country fried chicken meal seems appropriate, though the lighting feels industrial/cafeteria quality, rather than what one might find in a home where these meals are eaten.
  • The carbonara container on a plate seems darkly lit, and it's more of an entree, not a "meal" (if one thinks of meals as having multiple courses).

If it were up to me, I would suggest maybe keeping the "Country fried chicken" image, removing the other two images, and perhaps including other images, like:

I'd be happy to hear what others think before I go chopping away at the article. - Swiss Mister in NY (talk) 23:11, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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