Talk:French battleship Jean Bart (1940)

Confusing

This article is rather confusing. First the ship goes to Casablanca to escape the Germans, and then it battles the United States, with no explanation given. Also, when the ship engaged in battle with the U.S., was it commanded and/or manned by the French? If it was either commanded or manned by the French, why did they go along with it? -- Kjkolb 08:14, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Added links to Vichy government and Operation Torch that should help clarify the issue. PpPachy 21:35, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Contains the statement that it was sunk by a U-Boat - this is confusing at it refers to a cargo ship transporting a gun turret. 86.141.195.149 (talk) 18:37, 9 March 2010 (UTC)RogerStones

The battleship Jean Bart escaped from Saint-Nazaire on June 19, some days before the French Governement signed the 1940 Armistice with the Germans. The French Navy, in most cases, respected the 1940 Armistice, and refused to rally the the British Forces or the Free French Forces. Thence, fierce struggles occured with the British Forces, and sometimes the General de Gaulle's Free French Forces, as Operation Catapult with the attacks of Mers-el kébir (1940,July 3-6) and Dakar (1940, July 8), Operation Menace and the battle of Dakar (1940, September 23-25), off Lebanon and Syria (1941), Operation Ironclad against Madagascar (1942 May).The battle of Casablanca was for the French Navy the last episode of the struggle with the Allies, as the French Naval forces overseas (except in Indochina, under Japanese control) joined the Allies, between November 1942 and July 1943.Paul-Pierre Valli (talk) 11:44, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Decommissioning

In the introduction it says the ship was decommissioned in 1961. The Post war active service section does not mention 1961 at all, and instead says it happened in 1968. Which date is correct? Delta 51 (talk) 22:19, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Toulon 1968 07.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:21, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:French battleship Jean Bart (1940)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kges1901 (talk · contribs) 22:40, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Will take this review. Relatively famous ship; I remember reading the account of the Jean Bart's gun duel during Operation Torch in Rick Atkinson's An Army at Dawn.

Lead

• completed by 1 May 1955 - Is the exact date important enough for the lead?
  • Probably not
• French intervention in the Suez Crisis - Suggest linking 'French intervention' to Operation Musketeer (1956)
  • Good idea
• initially used as a barracks ship until 1961 - 'initially' is redundant here as giving the year 1961 places a timeframe on the barracks ship period
  • Removed

More later. Kges1901 (talk) 22:40, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Design

• necessitated the Dunkerque layout - suggest necessitated a repetition of the Dunkerque layout
  • Done
• 152 mm (6 in) /55 Mle 1930 guns - appears to be an extra space between (6 in) and /
  • There isn't one
• The way that the sentences about the Washington treaty violations are phrased in the Richeliu article reads smoother, and I'd suggest using a modified version of that instead
  • Reworded - see how it works for you
• Tonnage and draft completed with is not mentioned
  • Right, that section is for the original design
• Radars that she was completed with are named in infobox but not text
  • Those weren't part of the original design
    • Yes, but shouldn't the statistics as completed be mentioned somewhere in the body?
      • That's a good point - added to the body. Parsecboy (talk) 11:49, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

• but the shell handling equipment had not been installed, nor had the necessary fire control systems - suggest but it lacked necessary shell handling equipment and fire control systems
  • Done
• The superfiring turret had neither its guns or armor and none of the secondary turrets had been installed, nor had the 100 mm guns, construction of which had been delayed. - suggest rephrasing as The superfiring turret was without its guns and armor, while the secondary turrets had not been installed.
  • Done
• in place of the 100 mm guns - suggest mentioning the construction delays here as in place of the construction-delayed 100 mm guns
  • Reworded differently - see how it reads
• they had that time had no ammunition or directors - suggest possibly they had no ammunition or directors at the time
  • Works for me
• fr:Pierre-Jean Ronarc'h appears notable as he reached VADM rank and had significant naval commands later in the war
  • Good find
• Casablanca in French North Africa - If you're going to say that Oran was in French Algeria (below), then Casablanca is specifically in French Morocco
  • Good point
• picked up the destroyers --> rendezvoused with the destroyers
  • Done
• Following the French defeat --> suggest Following their defeat
  • Done
• but they ultimately agreed to take Jean Bart and Richelieu to Toulon to be demobilized - The reason why this didn't ultimately happen is explained in the Richeliu article and I suggest you mention it here too as it seems relevant
  • Added
• Barthes - first name was Émile Barthes
  • Added
• After direct the ship's guns - add was improvised. to make this sentence make sense
  • This is what happens when you forget what you were writing when you spend several minutes trying to find an article to link Sidi Abderrahman
• An American fleet that included - fleet should be covering force
  • Done
• Ironically El Hank has a better article on frwiki than Sidi Abderrahman
• exploded in the magazines for the 152 mm guns, though as the guns had never been installed, the magazines were empty - suggest condensing as exploded in the empty magazines for the uninstalled 152 mm guns
  • Done
• cruiser Augusta --> heavy cruiser Augusta
  • Done
• Two of the bombers scored hits, --> Two of the bombers scored hits;
  • Done
• Extensive flooding led the ship to settle by the stern, the turbo generator room was full of water and the main diesel generators had been disabled by shock from the bomb explosions - How about Extensive flooding led the ship to settle by the stern and submerged the turbo generator room, while shock from the bomb explosions disabled the main diesel generators,...
  • Works for me
• and another 22 had been wounded --> and the same number wounded
  • Done
• began already on --> had already begun on
  • Fixed
• Note that Fenard was head of the French naval mission to the US (per frwiki article)
  • Done
• report to US Admiral Frederick J. Horne, the Vice Chief of Naval Operations, --> report to American Vice Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Frederick J. Horne
  • Done
• Service Central des Constructions et Armes Navales - Note that it was a Free French naval technical department, and can a translation be provided
  • Done
• damaged guns aboard Richelieu - From the Dakar Raid?
  • From the Battle of Dakar, but I don't know that it's directly relevant to this article
• including Fenard and Admirals Pierre Barjot and Louis Kahn - less awkward as including Fenard as well as Admirals Pierre Barjot and Louis Kahn
  • Done
• that "there - delete redundant "that"
  • Fixed
• Groupe des bâtiments de ligne - translation needed
  • Added
• disbanded in 1950 - reason why it was disbanded?
  • Jordan & Dumas don't say
• By this time, the ship's main and secondary batteries were operational --> The ship's main and secondary batteries were by now operational
  • Done
• Operation Mousquetaire - link Operation Musketeer (1956), italics for Mousquetaire
  • Link added, but as far as I'm aware, operation names aren't italicized even if they're foreign language
• Should be mentioned that in addition to the 1er REP, they also embarked Commando Hubert frogmen per Jordan and Dumas
  • Ah, I had missed that
• paratroopers - because of the above, --> paratroopers and frogmen
  • Done
• time at sea --> period at sea
  • Done
• , and so --> ; thus,
  • Done
• she was struck from the naval register and renamed --> she was struck from the naval register, renamed
  • Done
• May be significant that the anchor was preserved, see File:Ancre du cuirassé Jean Bart - entrée du Port de Saint-Nazaire.jpg
  • Added the photo to the article
• A better version of File:Jeanbart.jpg is available at NHHC
  • Uploaded over the old one.
    • Found a better version of the lead image as well. Parsecboy (talk) 11:59, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

That's me done. Kges1901 (talk) 18:03, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Kges, I think that's everything now. Parsecboy (talk) 11:49, 30 July 2019 (UTC)