Talk:Frans van der Lugt

A fact from Frans van der Lugt appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 11 April 2014 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Dutch Jesuit priest Frans van der Lugt, who had lived in Syria since 1966 and ministered to Christians and Muslims alike, was shot dead in April 2014 in Homs?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2014/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Frans van der Lugt.

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Biography

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Photo

We could use a photo of Pater Frans. I have emailed the Dutch Jesuits and asked them for one, but don't know how fast they are and if they have a suitable picture available for upload (preferably to Commons). I'll post a note here if I hear something, hopefully before this goes to the main page. --Randykitty (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Randykitty. Drmies (talk) 04:30, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just got an answer and they don't have any photos available, unfortunately. BTW, I see that you listed me as co-creator at DYK. Appreciate that, although I think it's more credit than I deserve :-) --Randykitty (talk) 09:35, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for trying. It's still odd, isn't it--there's photos of him all over the internet and we can't use them, but they can. Drmies (talk) 21:40, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We can use one, if no freebie is available. It has to be uploaded to Wikipedia at low resolution, with an explanation that no free image is available.

Amandajm (talk) 03:44, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK.I have contacted someone about getting a photo uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. It may be a few days before I get a return on this.

Amandajm (talk) 04:10, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Quotation marks

Near the end of the Biography section, it says:

"'The imam produced a wonderful sermon'", Van der Lugt recollected. He was immediately cleansed of his 'dogmatic tendencies, to the extent that I ever had those'".

There's definitely an incorrect number of quotation marks. Not knowing Dutch, I can't tell if the intent was to directly quote the whole passage from the source, or to just quote what Van der Lugt said, while paraphrasing the rest. If it's the former, it should be (including templates for proper formatting):

"'The imam produced a wonderful sermon', Van der Lugt recollected. He was immediately cleansed of his 'dogmatic tendencies, to the extent that I ever had those'".

And for the latter it should read:

"The imam produced a wonderful sermon", Van der Lugt recollected. He was immediately cleansed of his "dogmatic tendencies, to the extent that I ever had those".

MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:19, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

SOFIXIT, Mandarax! :) I jotted it down quickly, before class... Drmies (talk) 20:05, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I would have, if I understood Dutch. If it's not directly quoting everything from the source, then the first option is incorrect, and if it is, then the second one looks like plagiarism (which, now that I think about it, might be a Good Thing, as it could help to torpedo the DYK ;-) ). MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 20:23, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, fixed. Thanks. DYK that this has already had almost 8000 page views? Drmies (talk) 04:30, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Far from "Alright". The meaning was unclear.

The imam was the subject of both sentences.
The essence of what Lugt was saying was lost in translation. "dogmatic tendencies" in English simply imply a tendencies to be argumentative and "lay down the law" to other people. Lugt was meaning something much deeper than this. As a Jesuit, he had sworn vows to uphold Catholic dogma, at all costs. Lugt had clearly put this behind him, when he asked the imam to preach. A practising Jesuit, Lugt could not possibly do this, because the imam was quite likely to say things that were contrary to Catholic dogma. Lugt had apparently decided long ago that people were more important than dogma. It was his devotion to people that killed him, not his devotion to the Catholic Church.

It will be very interesting to see what the Jesuit Francis does about this defaulting Jesuit martyr.

Amandajm (talk) 03:42, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

2019 beatification started

I have read it in non English sources. Any RS? Zezen (talk) 07:42, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]