Talk:Foreign relations of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Foreign relations of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Chad

The amazingly childish revert war aside, the claims re Chad appear by the available evidence false, ergo I am reverting the stunningly rubbishy latest revert. (collounsbury 20:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC))

Stunningly rubbish childish silly bloody And you reinserted the question marks for what reason? -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 21:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Feel better kid? Perhaps something more imaginative next time? I inserted nothing, I merely reverted. Now, if you'd like to edit leaving out the Chad idiocy, feel free. Just don't blindly revert (although it is your speciality I understand), above all on 'facts' that are unfounded. (collounsbury 21:41, 23 August 2007 (UTC))

Bloody unimaginative bleeding blood I didn't say you inserted anything; if you read what I wrote, you reinserted the question marks after you said that you didn't want to get involved in the "amazingly childish revert war." You did precisely that. Do you feel better, old man? And feel free to spell things correctly, pay attention to what I wrote before you run off at the mouth, and stop being hypocritical (although I understand those are your specialties.) -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 21:56, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Boring kid, boring. Now, again, for items other than the false Chad information, edit away. (collounsbury 22:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC))

You being bored bores me Tedious, old man, tedious. Just trying to get the last word? Can't let the childish behaviour go? Cute. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 22:50, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Ah my dear child, your tantrums are not edifying boyo. (collounsbury 12:14, 25 August 2007 (UTC))

New Map

An interesting addition, one observation, colouring as done tends to give the impression of wider recognition - or exclusively shows recognition. I can see objections from the Moroccan parties and it would seem useful to add "non-recognition" and/or perhaps Moroccan recognition for a unified map. (collounsbury 12:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC))

I freely admit that the map is imperfect, more of an attempt to try to get all the information cited on this page into one image. My basis was the map for the Foreign Relations of the ROC]. In this case, the map only shows those countries that have explicit relations with the country. True, that does not include those countries that have canceled recognition of the ROC, while the Western Sahara/SADR map does include countries that formerly recognized the SADR. I understand that this may give an impression of greater current recognition than Polisario now holds, but that impression seems to be shared by such learned and wide-published mass media outlets as The Economist, which quotes not the current numbers but the total number of countries ever recognizing the SADR here. I thought it was worthwhile to set the record straight. Furthermore, it seems that a number of countries have the confusing tendency to alternate between recognition and non-recognition.

There is also the issue of non-recognition. I tried to address the countries that have moved from recognition of the SADR to those withholding any recognition of any de jure status until a final settlement. I did leave out those countries that never recognized the SADR and are likewise awaiting a final settlement on the territory, such as the US. Honestly I don't know how many such countries there are. I also don't know if there are countries that have no official relations with Polisario, but have de facto working relations, much like the United States has with the ROC/Taiwan.

As for including official recognition of Moroccan unity, I did intentionally leave that out. Much as the map of the foreign relations of the ROC/Taiwan doesn't address those countries that recognize Chinese unity under the PRC, I thought that such information would better be entered into a complimentary map to the one above.

Part of the problem seems to be that most of the sources listed for either recognition of the SADR, or recognition of Moroccan unity, are either Moroccan or Polisario websites. I've seen some countries, notably in Africa, as being claimed by both sides as officially recognizing their respective viewpoints at the same time. Maybe such countries are being cunning, or sloppy, or don't really care either way.

Quite frankly, the whole matter seems to be confusing. I really did the best I could on such a topic. It seems like most of the information out there is biased to a polarizing extent, outdated, or just not carefully researched. Are there any reliable third-party sources of information? Something from the UN? US State Department? Referenced academic studies? I would happily incorporate any such information into the map.Konchevnik81 17:21, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The map of countries recognizing SADR is way too complex. I have a much simpler idea:

Western Sahara - black, Countries recognizing SADR - green, Countries not recognizing SADR - grey 141.166.227.101 (talk) 05:05, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I would also add that the map is more than 'imperfect,' Its worse than useless. Its unnecessarily complex: obscuring its raison d'entre - telling users which countries recognize SADR and which don't. 141.166.230.9 (talk) 21:54, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the "constructive" dialogue - I would disagree that having a map, complete with an explanatory legend, is "worse than useless". If you to feel strongly enough about this issue to comment on the faults of this map on multiple talk pages, first please comment with a username. I welcome all readers to make any appropriate changes to the map themselves. If you feel that you can make a simpler and more instructive map, then please feel free to do so. Judging by the bitter debates that I have seen on all Western Sahara-related talk pages, I wanted to show all the shades of relevant information. There are precedents for making this kind of map, the foreign relations of Palestineis a good example. The underlying information is also difficult to work with: there are also very few reliable English language sources on this subject, and many countries seem to have very vague and variable opinions on the Western Sahara issue. If you have information that would be helpful in making this subject clearer to readers, then please participate constructively - provide useful sources and helpful changes. Thanks. Konchevnik81 (talk) 22:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Whether i am logged in or not is irrelevant to this discussion.

As for 'worse then useless,' that may be an exaggeration but it isn't far off. A wikimap should readable at a glance. This one isn't. And if you want good examples, look to the Kosovo and Taiwan recognition maps. The underlying information, there and here is easy to work out: there are countries that recognize and countries that don't. Quite frankly, SADR and Taiwan and Kosovo are less complex than Palestine: with Palestine there are issues regarding its original declaration of independence in the late 1980s, the creation of the Palestinian Authority in the 1990s, and what and which exactly is being recognized. That may or may not require some display on a map. However, this is not the case with Kosovo, Taiwan, or SADR. There is a clear, quantifiable list of countries that definitely do and definitely do not recognize Taiwan, Kosovo, and SADR. It can be easily and effectively put on a map. It has re Taiwan and Kosovo For some reason, it hasn't for SADR. 141.166.224.83 (talk) 14:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Here is the Kosovo map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CountriesRecognizingKosovo.png 141.166.224.83 (talk) 14:41, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Here is the Taiwan map: it has four colors (dark green for recognizing w/ embassy; light green for recognizing, no embassy) instead of three used for Kosovo but that is still substantively simpler than the SADR map here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CountriesRecognizingROC.png 141.166.224.83 (talk) 14:45, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone else interested in editing the map? I got the map started, but I would rather let other wiki-users take over in making any changes or doing any further research. Good luck! Konchevnik81 (talk) 19:33, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Table fixing

Can someone fix the table with the list of states that recognized the SADR? You're supposed to sort the list by date by clicking on this small icon... but the list is actually sorted by month, not by year! That's not too helpful. Anybody around who is bold to enough to get into the source code?

By the way, the map is great, I think. Just keep it updated, but in its present form it's okay for me. --Ilyacadiz (talk) 19:35, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Recognition by Botswana

On the official web-site Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation - Botswana (http://www.mofaic.gov.bw/) no any information about they recognition SADR. Where you take this information? Analitic114 (talk) 19:42, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Yugoslavia

The article currently states that "Yugoslavia that previously recognized SADR ceased to exist in 1992." I don't think this reflects the situation properly - SFRY recognized SADR. SFRY dissolved in 1992. FRY claimed to be the successor state to SFRY, but the UN, EU and others didn't recognize that claim. So, FRY(later Serbia and Montenegro, later succeeded by Serbia) retained all SFRY relations and memberships - in cases where the respective parties agreed to its claim to be SFRY successor. Since we don't have any source indicating that SADR has followed the UN/EU position - for bilateral SADR-FRY relations the former SFRY recognition was still in effect. That's why on October 28, 2004 it was Canceled by Serbia and Montenegro - it was not declared "inadmissible as SFRY ceased to exist" (there is no sense to make such declarations anyway). Same for Yemen - but it rather started supporting Morocco claim at some point - thus canceling the former South Yemen recognition (alas we don't have exact date for this change - in contrast to Serbia and Montenegro/FRY/SFRY). Alinor (talk) 16:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Text moved to template, please use its talk page. Alinor (talk) 06:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Template

Please use Template talk:Western Sahara lists of positions for discussion of the recognition&relations template (it's used in two articles). Alinor (talk) 12:41, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Duplication of articles should be avoided

Reviewing articles I saw that the content of this is a copy of part of the Legal_status_of_Western_Sahara article. As repeating duplicated information on different articles should be avoided, and being perhaps the only article on the Foreign relations category with a different structure, I think that this article should be redone entirely, with the same structure as the rest of the articles on the Foreign relations category. The actual content of the article would be maintained on the Legal_status_of_Western_Sahara article, and would serve as a base to made the new article in the shape of the same category articles. Regards.--HCPUNXKID (talk) 17:24, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Diplomatic relations of Polisario

Relationships of the Polisario Front are included in the article, inspired by the Palestine Liberation Organization relations in Foreign relations of the Palestinian National Authority. But while in the case of PLO there is official diplomatic relations (buildings and diplomats have diplomatic status granted/recognized by the host country, etc.), in the case of Polisario there is no evidence here of a formal diplomatic level of these relations. Similarly, data linkage contacts are not documented, it is usually only the data or conduct meetings. In fact, it seems that the official diplomatic relations were not established. Article mentions the establishment of formal relations with Polisario Front before 2007 in six European countries, but by 2007, no European State has done so. [1] This table covers only the official diplomatic relations. Unless we have no sources of evidence to establish official diplomatic relations with the Polisario Front (maybe exist in the case of certain countries) can't these unsourced diplomatic relations (all 9) in this table to be reproduced. Jan CZ (talk) 13:39, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Delete template Citations missing

I don't see the texts here without sources. Part of the text is the sourced directly for himself (109 sources now), part of text is taken from the relevant articles which are referenced here (Polisario Front, United Nations General Assembly Resolution 34/37, Western Sahara conflict etc.). I suggest the removal of the template. Jan CZ (talk) 09:26, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, the tag was added a long time ago, when the article was much different, and without any discussion of what needed to be sourced. The article looks well sourced now, so it's probably safe to remove. TDL (talk) 18:28, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

COPPPAL and SICA

In 2006, the SADR participated in a conference of the Permanent Conference of Political Parties of the Latin American and the Caribbean.[2]

In 2010, the SADR ambassador to Nicaragua participated in the opening conference of the Central American Parliament.[3]

I think those should be added. Japinderum (talk) 07:22, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm not against their inclusion, but one link is non-actual, and the second is non-functional. We need to complete functional sources. Jan CZ (talk) 11:23, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Added. Jan CZ (talk) 22:55, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

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