Talk:Foot whipping

On 22 July 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to Falanga (torture). The result of the discussion was not moved.

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Foot whipping in modern times: POWs at Syria

Seems there is a form possibly used in Swaziland.

- Swazi 'torture' threat condemned **

Swaziland unions condemn the prime minister's suggestion that dissidents should be whipped on their feet with spikes. < http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11260679 >

The Syrians tortured POWs with Foot whipping and other methods. Here's the reference: http://www.aiipowmia.com/inter26/in030706recall.html Would anyone like to add this to the article? Thanks Kvsh5 (talk) 11:44, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

POV?

"This punishment has, at various times, been used in China, as well as the Middle East. It was used throughout the Ottoman Empire (including the Balkans)." Later the text gives examples of Shakespeare's text including this torture, and mentions US prisons using it as late as early 20th century. Isn't it POV to only mention China, Middle-East and Ottoman Empire as places where this torture has been used, when it appears to have been used all over? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.17.50 (talk) 15:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is fair to say that this punishment has been used much more commonly in certain times and places. The Ottoman empire comes readily to mind. In many other places, the citations are very rare.Pete unseth (talk) 20:47, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Usage on females

I added a "citation needed" tag to this statement:

> It was convenient in that it could be employed on both male and female students in lieu of other forms of punishment considered inappropriate for female students (such as caning of the buttocks)

I lived for a while in a place that used Falaka as punishment in schools, but it was only employed on males; it was considered inappropriate for females. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.75.184.136 (talk) 22:04, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Psychological effects

I've refimprove tagged this section, which currently seems suspiciously like an undergraduate essay ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 17:35, 3 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Drivel

This article is a load of rubbish. The bastinado is a punishment characteristic of the Ottoman empire. Doubtless it was known elsewhere; but the casual suggestion that it is normal in the US etc is simply crap. It was always regarded as a strange, oriental punishment. The whole tone of the article suggests that it was written by some PC idiot born in 1990. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.39.78.45 (talk) 13:47, 10 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Desperately needs citations!

This article is not a good example of how Wikipedia is supposed to be built on citations. Some paragraphs near the beginning, writing extensively about humiliation and being barefoot, (in my opinion) should be quickly deleted or extensively documented. Even if they are documented, they seem an odd emphasis at the beginning of the article. Pete unseth (talk) 20:53, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect picture

The picture

appears to show a man being held by his ankles and caned over the buttocks. It is not therefore appropriate to an article on foot whipping. I have removed it from the main article. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:49, 21 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. There is a consensus that the page should not be moved to the proposed title, and whilst some other options were raised no consensus formed that the page should move to any of these alternative titles. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jack Frost (talk) 13:18, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Foot whipping → Falanga (torture) – The term "foot whipping" is hardly used in reliable sources. According to Danish Institute Against Torture, falanga is the most common name for this torture method.[1] Searching Google Scholar also reveals in falanga being the most common name when the word "torture" is used to filter out extraneous results.[2][3][4] Alternately, I think it may be the primary topic of "falanga", currently a dab page. (t · c) buidhe 05:33, 22 July 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Jack Frost (talk) 08:01, 29 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know about using "Foot whipping" as the most common title, but on the other hand, I don't know about using "Falanga" either. I wouldn't make a change based on one site that calls it the most common name, and your Google scholar results are not very convincing, with 281 hits for "falanga" and a neatly identical 279 hits for "bastinado", particularly when our article calls falanga a "particular Middle East method" (my emphasis) vs another term for the same thing. Unfortunately that the source is dead. Where I am from the term "bastinado" is used, and "falanga" does not appear in our dictionary. Hmm, the same appears to be true for the Oxford English Dictionary ("bastinado" is listed but not "falanga"). Meters (talk) 05:56, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I guess the first thing to clarify is whether "falanga" it truly a particular method vs. another name for the same thing. Meters (talk) 06:12, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is Google Scholar results, filtered for those that are most recent. There are only going to be a limited number of scholarly articles published within a certain time range about torture, however, that's a good way to find what reliable sources use. (t · c) buidhe 13:42, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Both falanga and bastinado seem to be regional. I don't think there is a single term which is widely understood worldwide, so Foot whipping is just fine as a sort of hybrid between an actual term and an WP:NDESC which is exempt from usage requirements. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 06:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Organizations such as International Rehabilitation Council for Torture Victims,[5] International Committee of the Red Cross,[6] the US government,[7] OHCHR [8] all appear to mostly use "falanga" meaning that it's not accurate to consider it a regional term.
My belief that falanga is the common name is also partly based on anecdotally reading scholarly literature on this topic and finding that "falanga" is the word usually used. I don't believe the current title is very descriptive, it is misleading as whips are not typically used. "Beating" would be more accurate, and it's not just any part of the foot.
One thing I've noticed is if you search "bastinado" you find many sources that list both terms, but put falanga first, for example: "Blows to the soles of the feet (falanga, falaka, bastinado)"[9] "Falanga (also known as falaka or bastinado)"[10] "Falanga (falaka or bastinado) is the application of blunt force trauma"[11] "severe beatings, including of the feet (falanga or bastinado)"[12], "falanga (besting of the soles of the feet also known as bastinado)"[13], "Beatings of the Feet (Falanga, Falaka, Bastinado)"[14], "common torture method of falanga (bastinado) "[15], "falanga or bastinado is a method of torture"[16] I have not been able to find any sources using the opposite order, suggesting that "falanga" is the primary name for this practice. (t · c) buidhe 13:42, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The heart of WP:COMMONNAME is to "use commonly recognizable names". Most readers are unlikely to know the word "falanga", but "foot whipping" is pretty clear. The OED doesn't even have an entry for it, although Merriam-Webster does; Wiktionary's entries (falanga, Falanga) each identify it only as non-English words (Latin and Polish), having nothing to do with the sense used here (referring to instead to the phalanx, the military grouping). It's far from the common name for foot-whipping, even if most specialists use it.

An additional advantage is that "foot whipping" is unambiguous; and as the disambiguation page Falanga shows, "falanga" is not. TJRC (talk) 18:03, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The word whipping doesn't seem very good, since the practice seems to more often involve a rod rather than a whip. "Foot beating" might be better. "Falanga" might be too obscure. And "torture" seems too judgmental. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:42, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm. So "foot whipping" has 90 GS hits while "foot beating" has 235. However, the majority of the former are relevant, while a majority of the latter are not, making it actually the less common term. It is also ambiguous, occasionally referring to a rhythmic dance step. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:24, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose (as proposed): Putting "torture" in the name seems unnecessarily judgmental for a practice that has been applied as a punishment in schools and may not result in any clear injury if not performed to an excessive degree, as per WP:TERRORIST. That is not to say I consider it a mild or socially acceptable way to treat people in modern society, but labelling it as "torture" in all cases seems a bit extreme. We don't say that flogging, spanking, belt-whipping or hitting people with a ruler on their knuckles or the palms of their hands is always torture, and I don't think we should say it about this either. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:07, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. In my experience, bastinado is a far better-known term in English-language sources than falanga. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:46, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Unsourced (or misleadingly sourced) speculation removed

I've removed about an acre of unsourced or misleadingly sourced speculation. Porcsten (talk) 23:27, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And, on reconsideration, another half-acre. Porcsten (talk) 17:58, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Use in BDSM

Bastinado is used very frequently in a consensual BDSM context, as a quick Google search would show. Even the website “falaka.net” belongs to a porn site that produces videos of this type.

However, it might not be a good idea to have Wikipedia link to porn sites or to cite them as sources; it might come across as promoting or advertising them.

If anyone can find a source that merely documents the use of bastinado in a kink context (rather than actually portraying it), it would definitely be worth adding to the article.2600:1014:B07F:6488:A4A4:7C51:66BE:1847 (talk) 19:44, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]