Talk:Florent Groberg

Naturalized US Citizen?

The children of United States citizens are U.S. citizens from birth? Could someone explain the discrepancy and correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MaximZero (talk • contribs) 21:29, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

• MaximZero Prior to 1986, both parents had to be U.S. citizens. People born before 1986 with just one parent who was a citizen have to be naturalized. Groberg was born 1983. [1] —Мандичка^YO 😜 21:34, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I think the law actually changed October 10, 1978.

3. Child of U.S. Citizen Parent and Foreign National Parent​ 

A child born outside of the ​United States​ and its outlying possessions acquires citizenship at birth if at the time of birth:​

• • One parent is a foreign national and the other parent is a U.S. citizen; and​
  • The U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States for at least ​5 ​years, including at least ​2 ​years after 14 years of age.​

Time abroad counts as physical presence in the United States if the time abroad was:​

• • As a member of the U.S. armed forces in honorable status;​
  • Under the employment of the U.S. government or other qualifying organizations; or​
  • As a dependent unmarried son or daughter of such persons.​

The data on Capt. Groberg's father is that he was born in Indiana to a Swedish-born father and a U.S. born mother in 1938. So, unless he left the United States prior to 1943 and didn't return until after Florent Groberg's birth, Capt. Groberg should be a U.S. Citizen by birth. MaximZero (talk) 23:36, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

• Please see the link I posted above. It clearly says: One parent is a U.S. citizen at the time of birth and the birthdate is on or after November 14, 1986. —Мандичка^YO 😜 02:58, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

References

Franco-American Citizenship?

First of all there is no such thing as Franco-American citizenship. Regardless, Florent Groberg does not have dual French and American citizenship. He renounced his French citizenship to join the U.S. Army as an officer.

"Groberg graduated in 2006 with a degree in criminology and criminal justice and his name in several distance running record books. It took two years for him to join the Army in part because he needed to decide whether he would renounce his French citizenship, a requirement to have the security clearance of an Army officer, he said. He became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2001, a few months before graduating from high school." MaximZero (talk) 00:03, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

• France and the United States recognize dual citizenship. Saying or signing a document stating he was renouncing French citizenship because he joined the U.S. military is not a method to terminate French citizenship, which can only be controlled by France. (Everybody who becomes a U.S. citizen actually states they renounce all other countries during the oath ceremony, yet many keep other citizenship.) For a non-criminal to renounce French citizenship, there must be a legal decree recognized in French court. He stated very clearly he also thinks he is French in his heart so it is doubtful he would seek a legal order to actually terminate his French citizenship. —Мандичка^YO 😜 03:14, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Almost all U.S. military officers are required to have at least a SECRET security clearance, and dual citizens likely would have issues getting one.

• Concern. Foreign contacts and interests may be a security concern if the individual has divided loyalties or foreign financial interests, may be manipulated or induced to help a foreign person, group, organization, or government in a way that is not in U.S. interests, or is vulnerable to pressure or coercion by any foreign interest. Adjudication under this guideline can and should consider the identity of the foreign country in which the foreign contact or financial interest is located, including, but not limited to, such considerations as whether the foreign country is known to target United States citizens to obtain protected information and/or is associated with a risk of terrorism.

• Concern. When an individual acts in such a way as to indicate a preference for a foreign country over the United States, then he or she may be prone to provide information or make decisions that are harmful to the interests of the United States.

So, Groberg would have had to taken whatever steps the Army felt was necessary to terminate his French citizenship. He says that he considered this for two years before finally joining the Army as an officer. Plenty of time to consider his options and set the legal process in motion. MaximZero (talk) 04:21, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

This is not a requirement. Security clearances are determined individually. Department of Defense security guideline states that "possession and/or use of a foreign passport may be a disqualifying condition" and that "foreign citizenship possesses little security significance if based solely on birth in a foreign country." As France has been an ally of the United States since 1776, a French-born dual citizen who who lived in the US since childhood and is the child of a natural born American citizen would be of minimum concern. The most important thing is you must express a willingness to renounce dual citizenship and hand over your passport. Per Guidance to DoD Central Adjudication Facilities (CAF) Clarifying Application of the Foreign Preference Adjudicative Guideline: "The security concerns underlying this guideline are that the possession and use of a foreign passport in preference to a U.S. passport raise doubt as to whether the person's allegiance to the United States is paramount and it could also facilitate foreign travel unverifiable by the United States. Therefore, consistent application of the guideline requires that any clearance be denied or revoked unless the applicant surrenders the foreign passport or obtains official approval for its use from the appropriate agency of the United States Government. " There is nothing to indicate Groberg actually terminated his French citizenship in the French court, just that he would have to renounce it. To say "I renounce my birth country" when it is not true in your heart is very difficult and emotional. —Мандичка^YO 😜 05:49, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

References

Born in France of American, French and Algerian descent

If we're going to put his descent, we should include Swedish as he had a grandfather born in Sweden However, I think it would be more appropriate to say: "Born in France to an American father and a French mother of Algerian descent" MaximZero (talk) 00:33, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

References